<kentonv>
hexx: You can actually use the token (everything after the #) as a password along with any username
<kentonv>
gwillen: it's possibly because "bold" is a whole separate font
<ocdtrekkie>
Why is the trash can now always "Forget", even on grains I own?
<gwillen>
kentonv: ahhhh, that makes sense.
<gwillen>
and you use the main font elsewhere also so it's already loaded
<kentonv>
right
<dwrensha>
ocdtrekkie: that's a bug
<dwrensha>
on master now it's always "move to trash"
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<asheesh>
gwillen: I have that frequently, fwiw.
<gwillen>
asheesh: yeah I think I have it more or less every time
<gwillen>
it's obviously not major but it's quirky
<gwillen>
and "the place where we list things you're about to trust" is a slightly bad place to be quirky just on principle
<gwillen>
I can file a bug if there's not one already
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<frigginglorious>
Anyone have a quick bit of info on the Sandstorm for Developers install option?
<dwrensha>
frigginglorious: you mean option (2) when you run install.sh?
<frigginglorious>
Im assuming that everyone is sober and ready to jump into conversation because its friday night, and errbody wants to Sandstorm party on a Friday night.
<frigginglorious>
dwrensha: yessir :D
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<dwrensha>
frigginglorious: what were you wondering about?
<frigginglorious>
i’m hosting a developer hackathon type of workshop for SS apps. I plan to do this, to the best of my ability, entirely offline.
<frigginglorious>
well, im not hosting it
<frigginglorious>
dwrensha: its for toorcamp in WA next month. We are camping on a goddamn island for 5 days, and I’m doing a workshop
<frigginglorious>
and uh… I’m gonna be doing a lot of stuff to prepare for it. I hope to be able to just broadcast my own WiFi from a router tho, in case the island internet is unreliable.
<dwrensha>
oh, cool. looks like mrdomino is going to be there too
<frigginglorious>
dwrensha: so if i want to have more or less open access for anyone to connect and upload stuff, will the dev install option let that happen?
<frigginglorious>
yeah, i started following mrdomino on twitter cuz of his boss radio server. He tweeted about it. I thought it was awesome, so i put in at the call for speakers :D
<frigginglorious>
and i think im gonna meet up with him and carpool. maybe. shits gotta get worked out yet.
<dwrensha>
in my understanding, the "dev" install option means "don't do sandcats, and just listen on localhost by default"
<dwrensha>
you're going to be able to adjust things after the install step
<dwrensha>
it sounds like you're thinking about login providers
<dwrensha>
if you enable dev accounts, then anyone can get admin access to your server
<dwrensha>
which is maybe ok if it's a local network and you all trust each other
<frigginglorious>
dwrensha: well, it will be a bunch of hackers. but what would you suggest for an offline hackathon type situation. Is it going to even work?
<dwrensha>
so, you're going to need to figure out DNS
<frigginglorious>
oh yeahh, I was thinkin bout that
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<frigginglorious>
dwrensha: has anyone ever tried something like this, to your knowledge?
<frigginglorious>
dwrensha: think i wanna keep the port to 6080?
<dwrensha>
I don't know! Configuring local networks is somewhat scary to me. A lot depends on what kind of hardware you're using.
<dwrensha>
anyway, I hope you succeed. I'm checking out for the night now.
<frigginglorious>
thanks for the help anyway man!
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<vidios>
Hi, all. Anyone here know anything about getting Java to work in sandstorm?
<vidios>
More specifically, trying to port Commafeed to sandstorm; trying to run a jar throws an error about the inability to load a shared library libjli.so
<Asheeshroam>
That has links to everything I think
<vidios>
Lovely.
<Asheeshroam>
I am wandering around so might not be super responsive to irc but email me, asheesh@sandstorm.io if you need anything after I disconnect.
<Asheeshroam>
Do try it and see if it is clear or if you have more questions
<vidios>
I'll try that; in the interim, another question...
<Asheeshroam>
Ya
<vidios>
Commafeed has various NPM dependencies. Some of them crap out because they don't like being in a virtualbox shared folder
<Asheeshroam>
Ah interesting
<Asheeshroam>
Often this is because vbox shared folders have a max depth
<Asheeshroam>
You can do the "npm install" step maybe with a parameter indicating to flatten things?
<vidios>
e.g. npm ERR! Error: UNKNOWN, symlink '../rimraf/bin.js'
<dwrensha>
vidios: possibly that failure is due to /proc not being mounted in the sandbox
<vidios>
Yeah... don't know how to work around that.
<vidios>
Might also have something to do with the fact that I'm on a windows host. asheesh seemed to get the actual app to crash rather than Java itself
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<Zarutian>
hmm.. what is the minimum size of a sandstorm grain?
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<dwrensha>
Zarutian: there is no minimum
<dwrensha>
but the storage backend on Oasis is... chunky
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<Zarutian>
what I have seen in the docu is that each sandgrain seems to have its own mini http server. Is that functionality required or can on just provide an small tcp server that talks cap'n proto?
<dwrensha>
oh, so you're concerned about app size
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<dwrensha>
yes, you can have an app that talks directly to the cap'n proto interface
<isd>
Zarutian: sandstorm-http-bridge is just a shim than translates betwen the sandstorm api and http.
<dwrensha>
note also that the app code is mounted read-only, so can be shared between grains
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<Zarutian>
dwrensha: that efficiency gain back of course depends on the ratio between how many grains are using that app code and the size of said app code, no?
<isd>
Zarutian: basically, your app gets launched with a unix socket on fd #3.
<Zarutian>
oh, I see, that is nice
<dwrensha>
Zarutian: that's right
<isd>
Even with sandstorm-http-bridge, hello world go spk was only ~2MiB. The PHP app in the tutorial is a lot bigger. Thing is, you're basically statically linking everything, so if you're developing on a platform that has a lot of dependencies, it's going to be worse
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<Zarutian>
isd: to me ~2 MibiBytes is rather huge. (And no, memory isnt cheap, just ask the die designers of L1 caches)
<isd>
Zarutian: I don't necessarily disagree. Go binaries tend to be big though; uncompressed/not stripped that was ~7MiB.
<isd>
Also, while it's not applicable to my go example, bear in mind that not all of that is necessarily being loaded into memory; that's the whole root filesystem, not just the executable.
<isd>
But yeah, this is the problem with containers.
<isd>
That also includes libc. I'm not up on how the kernel's samepage merging works, but that may help the situation a bit.
<isd>
I suspect the main space usage is going to be disk
<isd>
or at least, space losssed due to the packaging format
<isd>
*lost
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<cmr>
Is there currently anything like "capnp doc" which can generate documentation from schema files?
<cmr>
(obviously it's not in the main capnp tool, but externally)
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<dwrensha>
cmr: not that I know of
<cmr>
dwrensha: Hm. I might try and hack something together...
<vidios>
Unfortunately I'll be out for another hour or two...
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<cmr>
Is there an easy way to see the current memory usage of a grain in oasis?
<cmr>
to get a feel for what the CU cost would be.
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<kentonv>
cmr: no
<kentonv>
tracking that memory usage is most of the work of implementing CU quota, so not done yet
<cmr>
Yeah, I suspected that would be the answer :)
<kentonv>
when we roll out quota enforcement I imagine we'll initially set it to "report but don't enforce" mode for a few months to see what it looks like
<kentonv>
cmr: regarding fleshing out Cap'n Proto source location info, the main problem is we have so much high-priority work to do it's hard to say when we'll have time to work on source locations... but I expect to go on a Cap'n Proto kick in a month or two and I might just go do it then. We'll see.
<cmr>
kentonv: Right, so, I intend to spend significant resources building things with Cap'n Proto, and my expectation going into that is that I'll need to spend some of those resources on Cap'n Proto itself.
<cmr>
(where my main resource is time)e
<cmr>
So if there are relatively high-impact tasks that take less than, say, 20 hours to do, I'm happy to give them a go.
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