<whitequark> cr1901_modern: yes, that's what I'm saying
<whitequark> of course if you choose the transformer right
<whitequark> rqou: btw don't they teach you SMPS in $FANCY_SCHOOL?
<whitequark> if even some rando like me understands the basics surely there should be a course or something
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<qu1j0t3> haha
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<cr1901_modern> whitequark: I can't speak for rqou, but you don't learn everything you need to know in an EE curriculum
<cr1901_modern> I did NOT know how a SMPS worked until within last year
<cr1901_modern> I've never done RF electronics (it was an elective that I didn't take, and really regret it).
<whitequark> meh, and you had to pay for that?
<cr1901_modern> Well I was on scholarship :P, but yes
<cr1901_modern> I only learned how to make my own PCBs on my own time; now that WAS offerred as an after class thing back in 2010. By the time I actually made my first boards in 2013, I forgot everything/no longer had an Altium subscription, so I basically went in raw.
<cr1901_modern> Lots of holes... :/
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<cr1901_modern> A lot of this stuff has changed in my Uni's curriculum AFAIK, so there are fewer holes. But since ABET actually means something to that school, they're kinda obligated to improve
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<felix_> learning about the basics of how to build switch mode power supplies was iirc part of a lecture i had to attend for my bachelors degree (electronics and information technology). but that only showed the basic concepts and not how to properly implement stuff
<felix_> 60-70% of the bachlor lectures were basically a tour through the different fields of electronics and information technology. didn't like to have to learn some of the stuff, but i still consider it good to still have attended those
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<whitequark> cr1901_modern: quick q. can you filll in the blanks?
<whitequark> i think i need to invert... something...
<cr1901_modern> whitequark: Looking now
<cr1901_modern> whitequark: Why is top the "default view". Given those projection vectors I would expect the camera to be looking toward the front of the object
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<rqou> whitequark: there's nothing specifically about SMPSs
<rqou> there's a large number of classes on linear/nonlinear controls
<whitequark> cr1901_modern: pretty sure when the Z axis points directly at your eye, you are looking at "top"
<rqou> (that I only took a few of)
<rqou> and there's a "build a line following car" class that includes SMPS design that I also unfortunately didn't take
<whitequark> line following car?
<whitequark> I made that using a lego set when I was 12
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<whitequark> the university education has really degraded hasn't it? :D
<rqou> it's a really fast one rather than a trivial one
<whitequark> ah ok
<whitequark> I was afraid you had a class on using one flip-flop :D
<rqou> you also build the power supply and motor driver
<cr1901_modern> whitequark: Fair enough. Z in OpenGl is "into the screen", and I don't usually think of it as top
<rqou> and program a uC to control everything
<whitequark> aure. the GL coordinate system is unrelated here
<whitequark> rqou: so more like a mid-level arduino project
<whitequark> you're making me feel less bad for not attending a uni throughout
<rqou> mid-to-high level Arduino project except with a free scale kinetis instead
<whitequark> on the other hand, understanding of the basics of biochemistry has helped me a lot already...
<rqou> Berkeley isn't known for being very good at the practical engineering side
<rqou> you can delve really deep into e.g. the mathematics of nonlinear controls though
<whitequark> I see
<rqou> it's also a combined EE+CS curriculum where you can pick and choose what you like
<rqou> it used to be that you could graduate without ever having touched a PCB :P
<azonenberg> whitequark: the old engineering design class at my school (which i didnt take as a CS major)
<azonenberg> did a line follower as one of the project options
<azonenberg> but, until recently
<azonenberg> no MCUs allowed
<azonenberg> you could use discrete 74xx and analog stuff only
<whitequark> azonenberg: isn't it basically "drive forward, switch steer slightly left/right every time you encounter an edge"?
<whitequark> so uh... a schmidt trigger and three flip-flops
<azonenberg> i forget the exact details of how various teams did it
<azonenberg> but basically yes
<azonenberg> its not complex
<whitequark> that seems underwhelming
<azonenberg> my old roommate had some fancier stuff in his
<azonenberg> it was able to backtrack a little bit
<cr1901_modern> whitequark: http://hastebin.com/tefoxuhopi.php Try this. Yell if it's wrong. It means I used the wrong handedness
<azonenberg> and handle things like the line crossing itself
<azonenberg> Which actually did happen in one of the test courses
<rqou> how about FPGAs? :P
<rqou> they aren't MCUs
<azonenberg> PLDs were banned at the time
<whitequark> assemble an FPGA using 74xxs
<azonenberg> of any size
<whitequark> then program it
<azonenberg> now? anything goes
<whitequark> problem solved
<azonenberg> arduino is a common tool
<azonenberg> cakewalk
<rqou> how about EPROM+counter :P
<cr1901_modern> 74xx was the first FPGA
<azonenberg> Lol
<whitequark> finger-programmable gate array?
<whitequark> wtf why is it so complex
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<whitequark> that's a 8-bit shift register supposedly
<rqou> I/O pads? random guess
<azonenberg> whitequark: 16 ffs
<azonenberg> 8 bit shreg + 8 bit storage reg
<whitequark> and the massive stuff on top?
<whitequark> and the complicated pattern under bond wires (??)
<azonenberg> So
<azonenberg> I see sixteen things bottom center that are probably the shregs
<whitequark> yep
<azonenberg> the ffs*
<azonenberg> Then, big fat fingers prob power/ground
<azonenberg> Bond pads were etched off during decap it looks
<azonenberg> The stuff under them is most likely ESD protection diodes
<whitequark> oh
<azonenberg> and possibly part of the pad driver fets
<whitequark> \so center top is drivers?
<azonenberg> But i suspect the pad drivers are the big things top center
<azonenberg> under those giant power buses with a zillion vias going down to m1
<carl0s> pointfree, just built a project in Creator and saw a verilog file that seems to be the verilog representation of the schematic, its on the codegentemp directory.
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<whitequark> cr1901_modern: uhm
<whitequark> cr1901_modern: in left, right, and front, Z points down
<whitequark> top, bottom and back are I think fine
<azonenberg> whitequark: i'm used to opengl coordinates too
<azonenberg> x is left/right, y is up/down
<azonenberg> Z points into the screen
<whitequark> azonenberg: yeah but here you have a specific coordinate system that's even indicated
<whitequark> like https://imgur.com/a/bxz98
<whitequark> its pretty unambiguous
<cr1901_modern> Oh fuck me T_T
<cr1901_modern> I did it again
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<Lord_Nightmare> did what again
<cr1901_modern> Lord_Nightmare: Use a left-handed coordinate system when a right-handed system was needed
<Lord_Nightmare> cant you just reverse the sign on the axis in question
<cr1901_modern> If I could remember which axis was which for more than 5ms, sure
<cr1901_modern> Instead I'm doing cross products with my right hand like an idiot
<cr1901_modern> whitequark: Try this one lol... if it still fails, I'll just use the js viewer and extract the right vectors http://hastebin.com/aqerewisat.php
<whitequark> cr1901_modern: nope, Z still pointing down
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<cr1901_modern> whitequark: What does "Z pointing down" mean? Can I see a picture?
<whitequark> cr1901_modern: wait, I might have had outdated code
<whitequark> cr1901_modern: yup, I think everything's fine, thanks!
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<cr1901_modern> whitequark: Awesome, let me know if there are issues. I didn't actually do the matrix math to verify it was correct :P.
<whitequark> t looks correct enough to me
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<cr1901_modern> Every time I spend more than a month away from gfx, I have to refresh my matrix transformations (and spend 30 minutes twisting my right hand through its range of motion)
<cr1901_modern> Doesn't help that, like azonenberg, I associate OpenGL with a left handed coordinate system, but AFAIK OpenGL doesn't actually give a shit what handedness you use
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<whitequark> it doesn't.
<whitequark> you just tell it the face winding order
<azonenberg> cr1901_modern: i didnt say anything about left or right handed coordinates
<azonenberg> what i meant was rotation
<azonenberg> to me, Z points into the screen
<azonenberg> and x/y are screen coordinates
<azonenberg> as opposed to some systems where x/y are map coordinates and Z is up-down
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<cr1901_modern> I suppose one can change the handedness of a coordinate system by changing the face winding order. My head hurts just thinking about it tho
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<digshadow> rqou: will take a look
<digshadow> anything catch your interest?
<digshadow> oh
<digshadow> low opening bids too
<rqou> nothing specifically, but some of it is probably relevant to our interests
<digshadow> I could use a bonder
<digshadow> if you see one there (thats nice)
<rqou> there is one but it's in Massachusetts not SJ
<digshadow> thats fine
<digshadow> I know how to work with freight companies
<digshadow> you saw I just got that SEM shipped right? :P
<azonenberg> lol
<balrog> digshadow: what SEM this time
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<cr1901_modern> You're like a SEM factory digshadow
<digshadow> balrog: did you not see?
<digshadow> I have a nice working one now
<balrog> no
<balrog> oh yeah?
<digshadow> cr1901_modern: more like a SEM graveyard
<digshadow> fwiw
<digshadow> this one was still pretty cheap
<digshadow> as far as SEMs go
<digshadow> I was actually surprised it worked out of box
<digshadow> especially given past experience
<digshadow> (worked => barely. I had to do a tune up)
<azonenberg> digshadow: you got images out of the box, thats more than i've seen in the past lol
<digshadow> ha yeah
<digshadow> EDS and BSD still needs testing htough
<balrog> oh you got all that fancy stuff?
<rqou> offtopic: housemate got an xbone
<rqou> unfortunately microsoft actually understands how to security
<rqou> (unlike nintendo :P )
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<nats`> and know I want a sem in my life
<rqou> oh yeah digshadow do you want a qualcomm mdm8220 and a freescale i.mx for decapping?
<jhol> I would like to see die images of the ice40
<rqou> apparently xbones are just as bad at updating as normal windows pcs :P
<rqou> xbone oobe really is shit
<rqou> it's unbelievably slow to do anything
<digshadow> rqou: I will take old chips because I hoard them
<digshadow> but unless someone is going to have a use for the die image
<digshadow> I won't prioritize it
<digshadow> jhol: I'd probably image ice40 if someone gave me one
<digshadow> since there's openfpga interest
<jhol> I wondered if it might help with router design. I've been working (slowly in the background) on a VTR architecture XML for the iCE40
<jhol> and there are a lot of fields that we don't have values for e.g. the resistance/capacitance of traces
<jhol> I was wondering whether these could be inferred from die imagery
<jhol> I notice that with the other FPGAs on that twitter feed, you don't see much except the top metal layer
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<rqou> digshadow: yeah, I don't need the images for anything
<rqou> I just have some parts that I don't need at all and I figured you could do something with them
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<azonenberg_work> jhol: You dont need to know R/C for an FPGA router
<azonenberg_work> Only the delay per hop
<azonenberg_work> Are you sure you aren't using an ASIC tool?
<azonenberg_work> VPR is what i've usually seen used for fpga stuff
<jhol> sure - and clifford has that info. yeah VPR architecture XML expresses the delays in terms of R and C values
<jhol> it doesn't really ever refer to timing intervals
<azonenberg_work> I think you want to use a different tool then
<azonenberg_work> oh wait
<azonenberg_work> VPR does?
<azonenberg_work> in that case you probably will be best off inferring R and C values to match a given delay you observed
<azonenberg_work> Because images alone are not sufficient to extract parasitics
<jhol> yeah I figured that's what I would do
<azonenberg_work> you need lots of details like the density of the metal (they're not solid chunks of bulk material, it's usually slighlty porous and with some other residue etc mixed in)
<azonenberg_work> most of the time its not even done theoretically
<azonenberg_work> its done by making a sample
<azonenberg_work> and characterizing it