purr changed the topic of #elliottcable to: me
<alextgordon> whitequark: omg so russian
<alextgordon> I thought the appeal of btc-e was that it was easy to get money into ;|
<alextgordon> :\
<whitequark> well, I think I found a way to do CC->btc-e with a reasonable fee
<whitequark> 0.5% apparently but let me check if there's something I don't see
<whitequark> hngggg it doesn't like something so it simply refuses to work
* whitequark throws hands in air in disgust
<alextgordon> \o/ ?
<whitequark> fuck, I want to tail /var/log/syslog for my bank account
<whitequark> why is that not possible
<alextgordon> ha
<whitequark> kill -9 would also be nice to have irl
<whitequark> and zombies
<whitequark> you can't kill them lol
<purr> lol
<alextgordon> the nerd in me gets so excited about owning my own damn bank account
<whitequark> hm?
<alextgordon> well it's not like I own my money now is it
<whitequark> ah
<alextgordon> I give my money to some suited pricks
<alextgordon> then, if they're nice, they'll let me have it back when I ask
<whitequark> idk, you never really own the value of your money anyway
<whitequark> by definition
<alextgordon> true
<alextgordon> but bitcoin is closer
<whitequark> bitcoin is closer.
<alextgordon> at least my bitcoins aren't getting leant out!
<alextgordon> you should see the interest rate they give me, ha
<alextgordon> pricks
<whitequark> huh
<alextgordon> I think I get £2 a year
<whitequark> there's a bank in russia which offers 10%
<whitequark> monthly
<alextgordon> wow
<whitequark> it's basically the other side of a loan shark
<alextgordon> I get like 0.1% or something
<whitequark> so it's not very ethical I guess
<alextgordon> at least my account doesn't have fees, that'll be the next thing they ask for
<whitequark> well, the other pitfall is that you can't withdraw it early, at all
<whitequark> whereas pretty much all regular banks allow that
<alextgordon> I love that russia has loan shark bank accounts
<alextgordon> then again, we have wonga, so not so much better
<whitequark> well
<whitequark> they kinda still fuck you over
<alextgordon> even the church is invested in loan sharks! http://www.theguardian.com/business/2013/jul/25/church-england-stake-wonga-backer
<whitequark> because the loans are at 45% monthly
<whitequark> I was most surprised by how little they did to disguise themselves. they plain out state all the details on the website
<whitequark> the contract is 3 pages of plain 12pt russian
<alextgordon> sounds like wonga. "Welby said he was throwing the weight of the Church behind credit unions to offer an alternative to Wonga, which charges an annual interest rate of 5,853%"
<whitequark> 45%mo translates to 8638% annually
<whitequark> yeah
<alextgordon> I guess our MPs must be pretty corrupt too
<whitequark> ooooh
<whitequark> 0.5% was for the transaction processor. btc-e takes another 5%
* whitequark sighs
<alextgordon> I guess no SEPA in russia
<whitequark> if I did a bank transfer it would be 1%, except that minimal amount is 10000 RUB and minimal fee is 500 RUB so it's 5% of minimal amount
<whitequark> to actually get the 1% fee I'd need to transfer upwards of 50000 RUB, that's almost 2k$
<whitequark> plus it's 3-7 days (I guess "5 workdays")
<whitequark> which is wtf which century is this
<whitequark> this is one area where bitcoin is How It Should Always Have Worked
<alextgordon> what about localbitcoins?
<whitequark> what about them?
<alextgordon> fast maybe?
<alextgordon> *faster
<whitequark> well, for starters, it doesn't work if your goal is to get RUB to some exchange
<whitequark> which may or may not be what you need
<alextgordon> well it does in a way because if you have bitcoins you can transfer that to an exchange and get RUB! ;)
<whitequark> well not if I want to have a way to quickly buy them when it crashes again.
<whitequark> also the rates it shows for RU are ridiculous
<whitequark> like 30% higher than btc-e rate
<whitequark> the best is 25k versus 23k on btc-e. all the others are 31k upwards
<whitequark> that translates to $1k/btc
<alextgordon> btc-e rate is lower than other exchanges though
<alextgordon> guess that doesn't really help you if you're in russia
<alextgordon> it's a full $100 below bitstamp and probably $200 below btcchina
<whitequark> couldn't one use that for their advantage?
<whitequark> if yes, why is that not happening yet
<whitequark> well, it's clear with btcchina
<alextgordon> whitequark: it's mostly a question of capital I think
<alextgordon> there's so much demand the arbs can't keep up
<alextgordon> the btc-china/bitstamp disparity has come off a lot though, it was much more a few days ago
<whitequark> sounds about right
<whitequark> you know
<whitequark> the chat on btc-e pretty much looks like a chat in mmorpg
<whitequark> well not when the mean age is 12. maybe when the mean age is 17. but still.
<whitequark> hahaha, to make it better they now allow only people with >$10 to write
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<alextgordon> ha
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<devyn> quick survey: what convention do y'all follow when making [Obj-]C[++] header guards?
<whitequark> of whatever project I'm contributing in
<devyn> how about personal preference
<devyn> for your own projects
<whitequark> or llvm: #ifndef WORDSSMASHEDTOGETHER_H
<devyn> haha, yeah, I usually just go with header file name (memory.h) → caps (MEMORY_H)
<whitequark> honestly if you want to know any of my preferences in C/C++ just look at LLVM
<whitequark> yea
<devyn> wow I like how they formatted the Emacs modeline
<devyn> clever
<alextgordon> devyn: header guards are stupid and dangerous
<alextgordon> use #pragma once
<alextgordon> or #import
<whitequark> alextgordon: nonportable
<alextgordon> #pragma once is implemented everywhere
<devyn> it's not standard though
<alextgordon> probably more portable than C++ itself
<joelteon> but it's implemented everywhere
<alextgordon> definitely more portable than C11
<alextgordon> or even C99!
<devyn> heh
<alextgordon> devyn: problem with header guards is that files in different directories will be guarded
<alextgordon> so like if you have foo/bar.c
<alextgordon> and baz/bar.c
<alextgordon> erm .h
<alextgordon> both will have BAR_H as the header guard, causing mayhem
<whitequark> #ifdef FOO_BAR_H
<whitequark> obviously
<alextgordon> right but that doesn't work if you cp the file from another project
<alextgordon> what are you going to do, change all the guards when you move a file?
<whitequark> 1) why the fuck do you do that, 2) why the fuck aren't your headers scoped by the project name
<alextgordon> 3) not all code is written by me, 4) #pragma once Just Works™
<alextgordon> header guards are a hack... no other languages use them. The compilers have given us a nice feature so that we don't have to use them. We should be grateful!
<whitequark> headers themselves are a hack, no other language spends 80% of time reparsing the same fucking files
<alextgordon> yeah but there's no replacement (yet) for headers
<whitequark> it's about
<whitequark> replacement for Cxx
<alextgordon> personally I only use clang and (sometimes) gcc, and both of those implement #import. but if I cared about other compilers, I'd use #pragma once ;)
<whitequark> you really should use armcc for once
<whitequark> it's like
<alextgordon> not good?
<whitequark> -Wall -Werror -Wextra -Wpedantic -Wreally-fucking-pedantic -std=c99 -ansi -i-said-ansi-didnt-i
<whitequark> always.
<whitequark> it's also fun in a multitude of other ways
<whitequark> say at each invocation it phones home to check the license, that takes ~10 seconds
<alextgordon> also #pragma once IS standard, in that the standard says it's implementation defined, and any sane implementation should issue a warning if it doesn't understand the pragma -- notifying you to install a better fucking compiler
<whitequark> or the code it generates isn't really structured in subroutines
<whitequark> it's a sea of labels, jumps, calls and rets, which are arranged in the most efficient way
<alextgordon> which begs the question -- why not use llvm!
<joelteon> it raises the question
<alextgordon> joelteon: nope, begs
<joelteon> ok fag
<whitequark> with zero regards whatsoever to the ability of you, puny human, understand it
<whitequark> and I think gdb chokes too
<alextgordon> questions are begged, points are raised
<whitequark> well
<whitequark> it generates incredibly good code
<whitequark> improvement of 30% in size/speed over gcc/llvm is not unheard of
<alextgordon> ah so basically it's the msvc++ of less endowed devices
<whitequark> mm no
<whitequark> msvc disregards the standard and just does whatever microsoft deems convenient
<whitequark> armcc adheres to the standard in the strictest possible way
<alextgordon> yeah but iirc mozilla said they use it because it generates faster code for windows
<whitequark> and it punishes you if you don't
<alextgordon> xD
<devyn> Windows is fucked
<devyn> lol
<purr> lol
<whitequark> after you write code for armcc for a while, you stop making errors or deviating from the standard
<whitequark> without any help from the compiler
<whitequark> because armcc doesn't help you, it beats you into submission
<whitequark> I should write a BDSM novel about compilers
<alextgordon> 50 shades of undefined
<whitequark> oh yes
<joelteon> so like
<joelteon> !!!
* purr scolds joelteon and puts them in a time out.
<joelteon> i should probably set up my own database server
<alextgordon> thankfully I have never read 50 shades of grey to try to joke about it
<joelteon> i read a review of it
<alextgordon> did the reviewer end it in a pool of her own fluids?
<joelteon> yea
<whitequark> 50 sheds of grey
<joelteon> basically
<whitequark> it's a thing
<alextgordon> oh god I have to read this book
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<joelteon> ok
<joelteon> i finally have my very own
<joelteon> database server
<joelteon> deploys are gonna be a LOT less painful now
<devyn> joelteon: what was up with all of the join/quit shit?
<jvulc> Friggin' NETSPLIT.
<jvulc> I think ... not sure or shitty internet.
<devyn> but it was just him
<devyn> lol
<purr> lol
<devyn> usually irssi detects netsplits anyway
<devyn> well... I mean, it's reported in the IRC protocol
<joelteon> yeah, my mistake
<joelteon> i had two droplets both running the same ZNC instance
<joelteon> old one should be gone forever
<devyn> heh
<devyn> -topic you
<purr> devyn: SyntaxError: Syntax is `s/expression/replacetext/gi`.
<devyn> -topic s/.*/you
<purr> devyn: SyntaxError: Syntax is `s/expression/replacetext/gi`.
<joelteon> would be nice if you could make a distributed bouncer
<devyn> -topic s/.*/you/
purr changed the topic of #elliottcable to: you
<devyn> fuck you purre
<devyn> fuck you purr
<devyn> I'm a little drunk :p
<joelteon> >purr
<devyn> purr: fuck you
<devyn> >_<
<devyn> I swore
<devyn> it said something
<devyn> when you do that
<joelteon> how daaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaare you
<devyn> purr: I hate you
<devyn> purr: I love you
<purr> devyn: thank you! ^_^
<devyn> haha
<devyn> =purr
<devyn> -purr
* purr
<joelteon> where has digitalocean been all my life
<devyn> -factoid purr
<purr> devyn: Popularity: 7, last changed by: ELLIOTTCABLE, 176ſ 926mſ ago
<devyn> crap how do you read a factoid overriden by a command
<devyn> uhhh
<devyn> -find purr
<purr> devyn: he purrs. he's a purr. that's what he does.
<devyn> there we go
<devyn> -factoid purr
<purr> devyn: Popularity: 8, last changed by: ELLIOTTCABLE, 176ſ 927mſ ago
<devyn> there we go
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<joelteon> SEC
<joelteon> i'm gonna try to set up ZNC on my new machine
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<whitequark> huh
<whitequark> you know what I'd do? completely selfish and outlandish? I'd just crash the world's economy. infinite supply of money ain't shit if it's not worth the paper it's printed on
<whitequark> hell, not worth the bits it's stored on! (homework: calculate how much inflation exactly do you need for that)
<whitequark> I'm surprised no one there thought of it.
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<joelteon> man
<joelteon> ZNC is the hardest thing to test
<devyn> GCC doesn't like my inline asm :(
<joelteon> so i just found out you can build a cross compiling GHC
<joelteon> this might be
<joelteon> the best thing ever
<devyn> a) of course you can, and
<devyn> b) why?
<joelteon> because i dev on osx and deploy to centos
<devyn> ah
<devyn> it's hell to set up though joelteon
<devyn> you have to get all of the headers from your centos installation
<devyn> and use them
<joelteon> what
<joelteon> really
<devyn> yeah otherwise even though it's the right binary format it's still not configured for centos
<joelteon> alright
<joelteon> well
<joelteon> i expected to spend all of tomorrow on this
<joelteon> might be monday too
<devyn> lol good luck
<purr> lol
<devyn> you probably need all of /usr/lib too, since GHC likes to static link
<devyn> or at least all of /usr/lib that you're using
<joelteon> that's a job for scp
<devyn> sftp*
<joelteon> ok
<devyn> scp is awful
<devyn> :p
<devyn> it's convenient but awful
<joelteon> ok
<devyn> what even is wrong with this?
<devyn> okay
<devyn> I guess GCC is weird. I understand now
<joelteon> ls
<joelteon> whoops
<joelteon> you know what
<joelteon> i wish zsh let you keep the prompt at the top at all times
<joelteon> but that's actually impossible the way it's written
<devyn> joelteon: might be able to do something with tmux... I think it can detect the current directory in the running process
<devyn> and it's not because of "the way it's written"
<devyn> that would require curses to do, basically :p
<devyn> properly, anyway.
<joelteon> well
<joelteon> n
<joelteon> no
<joelteon> there's a bash library
<joelteon> that just moves the cursor to 0,0 after return and redraws the prompt line
<joelteon> but you can't do that in zsh because it clears everything after the prompt
<devyn> ohh I see
<devyn> what you mean
<devyn> I'm not sure that's really a great idea anyway
<joelteon> suuuuure
<joelteon> wow, a kernel
<devyn> stupid dumb stack memory allocator
<devyn> :)
<devyn> someone awaken and be my friend
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<cuttle> whitequark: have you written anything in rust yet?
<cuttle> whitequark: I loved it when I was learning it
<cuttle> whitequark: but trying to write *anything* was fucking miserable, because the linear type system was never happy
<cuttle> alextgordon: hi
<alextgordon> hi cuttle !
<cuttle> ELLIOTTCABLE: hi
<whitequark> cuttle: not really
<cuttle> alextgordon: do you know much about higgs and stuff
<cuttle> whitequark: or do you
<alextgordon> less than nothing
<cuttle> ok
<alextgordon> depressing really
<whitequark> cuttle: not much
<whitequark> but i got links
<alextgordon> quantum field theory is the basis of the universe I live in, yet I will probably never understand it at all
<joelteon> well
<joelteon> i dont have internet access in my room
<cuttle> ok
<cuttle> i wanted to discuss a hypothetical idea i had
<cuttle> so the em field travels at a constant speed because it's massless, i.e. doesn't couple with the higgs field
<cuttle> whereas the fields that couple with the higgs field, e.g. the electron field, travel at different speeds depending on their energy
<whitequark> whew whew
<whitequark> fields don't travel
<cuttle> ok
<cuttle> excitations *in* the field
<cuttle> travel
<whitequark> hm
<cuttle> so i was thinking, sound waves travel at a constant speed, assuming constant temperature and pressure and stuff. so could there be some mechanism analogous to the higgs field whereby the sound field is given mass?
<cuttle> i mean, there are huge differences, since it's not quantum
<whitequark> wat
<cuttle> not given actual mass
<cuttle> but the analogous thing
<joelteon> watching microsoft commercials is like watching the special olympics
<joelteon> commercials in general are awful
<joelteon> devyn:
<joelteon> you are a prophet
<devyn> joelteon: lol how so
<purr> lol
<joelteon> gave up
<devyn> gave up cross-compiling for centos?
<joelteon> yea
<devyn> lol
<devyn> joelteon: if you really have to, it would be easier to just set up a virtual machine mostly identical to whatever your target is
<devyn> and compile there
<devyn> I assume the problem is that you can't compile GHC on your target?
<joelteon> i already have a vm
<joelteon> i thought it would be faster than booting it, compiling, and suspending it
<devyn> if you want to make things really easy, you could set everything up with VBoxManage and a network daemon on the guest so that your build script automatically starts the VM, tells it to build, and sends the result back to you (or to your server)
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<joelteon> that would be neat