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<wolfspraul> good morning
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* DocAvalanche moos evilly at wolfspraul
<DocAvalanche> got an offer for a gta04, courtesy anonymous sponsor
<DocAvalanche> fun detail, it's not THAT much away from what I specified for GTA04 when GTA04 was my baby
<DocAvalanche> too bad those chinese idiots were so greedy
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<wpwrak> just when you're about to sign at STE ? :)
<DocAvalanche> We could've even outperformed Nokia
<wpwrak> outrunning the dead is easy :)
<DocAvalanche> what's the link from STE to GTA04?
<wolfspraul> I cannot motivate myself about anything gta04 except watching it from the distance and trying to stay open-minded about it.
<wpwrak> wait .. you mean someone offered you a device ? or a project to make one ?
<wpwrak> ah, the golden delicious thing. i see
<wolfspraul> but one thing is good - they do *everything* differently than I would, that means we try more different things in parallel :-)
<DocAvalanche> Goldelico Nick can do a jig of joy if I find some hours at weekend to deal with that shower radio resurrection
<wpwrak> wolfspraul: so they're doing it exactly like openmoko did ? :)
<wolfspraul> how can this path ever lead to anything? argh
<wolfspraul> ah no
<DocAvalanche> *I* was doomed ro use that case, *he* could've used any case he could find at free market
<wpwrak> finding cases may not be that easy. particularly if you depend on them to be available for a while :)
<wolfspraul> well
<wolfspraul> I think we built up quite some knowledge by now
<wolfspraul> we know how professional Taiwan oem/odm industrial and mechanical design shops work
<DocAvalanche> wpwrak: WUT?
<wolfspraul> we know how hackerspaces like raumfahrtagentur work
<wolfspraul> we know how the shanzhai/shenzhen market works
<wolfspraul> werner as usual did awesome and eye-opening work on details like scanning, counterweight, etc.
<DocAvalanche> wpwrak: buy $RANDOM_NOKIA_CASE by the dozen
<wolfspraul> I'm very optimistic that we get the mechanical problem under control.
<DocAvalanche> wpwrak: tell me how much is a spare GTA02 case on free market
<DocAvalanche> hushing on design quality of GTA02 case
<wolfspraul> DocAvalanche: *everything* they do is wrong, imho :-)
<wolfspraul> but that means they must have some system of thoughts that is entirely different to my experiences - more power to them
<DocAvalanche> yeah, ack. but they deliver
<wolfspraul> I agree with you, I can source plastic parts for high-volume western brand phones easily, from 1 to thousands to more
<wolfspraul> DocAvalanche: they deliver what?
<wolfspraul> a few boards that will barely work after years and are sold for 666 EUR?
<DocAvalanche> and eventually sb is going to sue blow them outa the water, for not complying XXX
<wolfspraul> a speed of bugfixing and software maintenance that makes them go backwards with every month that passes
<wolfspraul> meanwhile phone prices are dropping like a stone and investment money retreats from this entire category
<wolfspraul> I truly with them all the best, but from my perspective I'd just lean back, sip a coffee or have a beer, and think :-)
<wolfspraul> wish
<wolfspraul> all the stuff we've seen
<wolfspraul> geekphone
<DocAvalanche> I'm d'accord but there are manics that keep stuff going
<wolfspraul> moto ezx
<wolfspraul> maemo
<wolfspraul> om
<wolfspraul> road gmbh
<wolfspraul> palm pre
<DocAvalanche> I'll take my tranquilizers now, prepare me coffee and popcorn, and then wait and see
<wolfspraul> :-)
<DocAvalanche> while STE will force me to get up at 6:30 ne3xt week
<wolfspraul> my plan is to continue to build the pieces necessary for a profitable manufacturing business
<wpwrak> bwahaha
<wolfspraul> and once we have that we can build anything, small things first, then bigger ones.
<wolfspraul> oh, there's also the huge changes in the soc industry
<wolfspraul> 30% of mobile socs are custom-made now, and growing
<wolfspraul> #2 is qualcomm
<wpwrak> DocAvalanche: do they offer other incentives ? like free waterboarding in the lunch break ? :)
<DocAvalanche> dunno yet
<wolfspraul> DocAvalanche: the chips you work on, what customers/products do they end up with?
<wolfspraul> (I mean you work on at STE)
<DocAvalanche> seen shivering smokers outside the main entrance :-(((
<DocAvalanche> wolfspraul: 70% of world production
<wolfspraul> LTE baseband?
<DocAvalanche> which feels kinda "boooh ey!"
<wolfspraul> on the phone or base station side?
<DocAvalanche> yep LTE baseband
<DocAvalanche> MTE
<DocAvalanche> like USB sticks
<wolfspraul> huh? you mean sold as modules?
<wolfspraul> integrated with the AP or not?
<DocAvalanche> err
<DocAvalanche> lost me
<DocAvalanche> acme-shit builds an USB dongle for LTE, with a STE modem in it
<wolfspraul> yeah we lost each other :-) just trying to understand which chips that is
<wpwrak> we now have a mole at analog devices, soon one at ST-E, let's see what other companies we still have to infiltrate ...
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<wolfspraul> DocAvalanche: so you got that gta04 already? for free?
<DocAvalanche> not got it yet, got the offer to receive one, and "get inclided to inner circle" whatever that means
<DocAvalanche> s/i/u/.
<wolfspraul> but above you say "they deliver"
<DocAvalanche> wpwrak: you seen the schematics?
<wolfspraul> so far they deliver promises
<wolfspraul> :-)
<DocAvalanche> yeah, gambling high
<DocAvalanche> almost at padora level
<wpwrak> nope. haven't been tracking it.
<DocAvalanche> wait
<wolfspraul> some things are so crazy I cannot process, did you see the mail from the guy who wants to die as a soldier of New Poseidia on the Om list?
<DocAvalanche> dang, my pdf views always segfault after a few days, a cheers to KDE4
<wolfspraul> wpwrak: almost your length level! :-)
<DocAvalanche> OM list? is that the folder tagged "12423 unread" on my kmail?
<wolfspraul> DocAvalanche: it seems OpenPandora managed to secure a 350K EUR investment from their community, from a bunch of private investors via simple contract
<wolfspraul> that's quite an amazing achievement
<DocAvalanche> tl;dr
<wpwrak> lovely. that's what i call determination ! we're such wimps.
<DocAvalanche> fun stuff about calypso though
<wolfspraul> after years of unbelievably incompetence, and ripping off many of their customers (many of whom are still waiting to receive anything after 2+ years)
<wpwrak> wolfspraul: you should feel envious :-)
<wpwrak> wolfspraul: and a little embarrassed :)
<wolfspraul> but the fact that the community investment worked is amazing, if it works...
<wolfspraul> right now of course, more promises...
<DocAvalanche> I'm gonna sell 50 "I AM RICH" apps next week ;-P
<wpwrak> wolfspraul: and guilty. because you're not giving the community a better, more sincere project to invest in
<wolfspraul> I'm grateful for every bit I learn and moving forward quite happily. takes some time to solve such complex puzzles.
<wolfspraul> wpwrak: yes! That I agree with.
<wolfspraul> I meant what I wrote above as a compliment.
<wolfspraul> community investment could be a very good way to go, but watch out, OP right now is deep in promise land
<wolfspraul> and they have a track record of breaking 99% of their promises for 3 years already
<wolfspraul> so that will all change in January now? hmm... :-)
<wolfspraul> but I like the idea of small community investments, with private contracts
<DocAvalanche> I bet I could come up with a "project" to collect 5 mio preorders in a month or two, just because people know I'd never do that
<wpwrak> did they aim for 350 kEUR ? or was that just what they managed to collect ?
<wolfspraul> finance the next run
* DocAvalanche feels like scientology founder now
<wolfspraul> first they hire some new helpers etc. to try to cleanup some of the huge mess they are dragging behind
<wolfspraul> I think it will end like everything else they did before, but anyway.
<wolfspraul> the money is real, it will be spent
<DocAvalanche> BLAERGHH
<DocAvalanche> I wish I could spend it - for hookers, steak, and cocaine
<wpwrak> but where did the 350 kEUR figure come from ? what that what they set out to collect from the beginning ? or was that simply what they received in the allotted time ?
<wolfspraul> that was as much as they needed per their calculation to finance the next run
<wpwrak> DocAvalanche: you're applying at the wrong places for that. try an investment bank :)
<wolfspraul> and then they sent out contracts to community, and eventually had enough investors
<wpwrak> excellent. so maybe they could even have gotten more.
<wolfspraul> of course these investors will loose their money, but there is so much money flying around, and someone has to spend it
<wpwrak> so, how much do you calculate Milkymist will need ? :)
<wolfspraul> so why not OpenPandora...
<DocAvalanche> meh, I just build up a story about the incredible new STE module, that comes with source of LTE stack courtesy me, just I need 10E7 € to accomplish
<wpwrak> it
<wpwrak> 's probably a good train to jump on
<wolfspraul> yeah :-) depends on sales forecast, right?
<wolfspraul> only conceptually
<wolfspraul> there is extremely little to learn for me in OpenPandora
<wpwrak> the idea is new. there does seem to be money around. others may just wake up and get interested in the next opportunity.
<wolfspraul> these investors will all loose their money
<wolfspraul> I'm not interested in such a project.
<wolfspraul> yes, if it is an opportunity
<wpwrak> well, we don't need to copy that part :)
* DocAvalanche burps
<wolfspraul> we need a sales forecast, strong customer, imho
<wpwrak> not interested in community-based financing ? or not interested in a financing a doomed project ?
<wolfspraul> no news :-)
<wolfspraul> one by one
<DocAvalanche> >> Bei mir hat sich ein Sponsor gemeldet, der u.a. Dir ein Board stiften möchte :) Sobald wir neue Board aus der Produktion bekommen.<<
<wolfspraul> OpenPandora has potential I think. it's not open hardware though. THe execution is just atrocious.
<wolfspraul> I am very interested in community-based financing.
<wolfspraul> but it has to work, for the investors
<wpwrak> i'm not talking about openpandora. i don't care what they do :)
<DocAvalanche> I tend to trust Nick, but who the F* is that sponsor???
<wolfspraul> 'doomed project' again depends on sales, demand
<wpwrak> and do you believe milkymist is something that can work for them ?
<wolfspraul> we need to figure out where is demand, and for what
<wolfspraul> I have no strong idea on demand, size of market right now.
<wpwrak> are are you already certain it will fail, and you'd rather have it fail with just your money ?
<wpwrak> s/are are/or are/
<wolfspraul> what is 'it'?
<wpwrak> milkymist
<wolfspraul> free technology cannot fail, it stays around
<wolfspraul> only a business can fail to generate profits
<wpwrak> commercially
<wolfspraul> correct that needs customers who want to buy
<wolfspraul> so... back to sales
<wpwrak> plan b would be to be a bit bolder, and ask for sponsors. make no promise about returns. maybe even exclude them from the beginning.
<DocAvalanche> maybe I'd enjoy this convo when we'd sit together in that bagels caffe in TPE - on IRC though...
<wpwrak> i didn't like the bagels conversation so much. i feel naked without a beer in my hand :)
<wolfspraul> after/if/when we make open hardware work, we'll get back together for sure :-)
<wolfspraul> and 2 beer for werner
<DocAvalanche> wtf is "inner circle" ???
<DocAvalanche> I got those droogies all mad when mentioning I might figure to port maemo to GTA04 ;-P
<DocAvalanche> it's depressing the best integration of messaging, GSM calls, SIP VoIP, skype, and contacts, is still with some close source shit Nokia threw over the wall
<DocAvalanche> and yeah, you bet you never fix the flaws this shot comes with
<wolfspraul> they didn't like the idea of you porting maemo to gta04?
<DocAvalanche> shit, but meh
<wpwrak> i think smartphones are currently too much under pressure. not a good place to be with open hardware.
<wolfspraul> (not that it wouldn't be far too much work...)
<wolfspraul> yes!
<wolfspraul> fully agree
<wpwrak> openmoko was there in time, before the frenzy began. but didn't deliver
<wolfspraul> knowing what I know now, it was a mission impossible from day 1
<wpwrak> then the elephants entered the playground
<wpwrak> i do't know if it was all that impossible
<wolfspraul> they entered many years before
<DocAvalanche> we got now: SHR, QtMoko, Maemo, Meego, Buntkuh/gentoo/younameit, and except of Maemo nuttin is ready for primetime, and Maemo is only working with blobs
<wolfspraul> both Apple and Android (Danger)
<wpwrak> it would have been difficult to upgrade the telephony specs, but the rest wasn't too far off
<wolfspraul> totally impossible
<wpwrak> why ?
<wolfspraul> you need continuous investments over several hundred million USD, for years
<wpwrak> i don't think it could have reached such volumes. but a choice for a sector interested in openness, yes
<DocAvalanche> meh, you need a community that'S not changing focus when it comes to the last 10% that are annoying and boring to do
<wolfspraul> I think we can compare an iphone/android to a Boeing 777 or Airbus 380
<DocAvalanche> and that's really *all* you need
<wolfspraul> let's say you want to be the third competitor next to Boeing & Airbus
<wolfspraul> how do you do that?
<wolfspraul> there are strategic government backed efforts towards that goal in Brazil, Russia, China, probably others
<wpwrak> you make slightly different planes. embraer are quite successful with that :)
<wolfspraul> so let's say infinite money, infinite time horizon
<wolfspraul> but still hard!
<wolfspraul> the Chinese started with airplane maintenance shops
<wolfspraul> for many years
<wolfspraul> then tires
<wolfspraul> then more and more parts
<wolfspraul> lots of companies
<wolfspraul> all backed by essentially unlimited government credit lines
<wpwrak> well, that's the chinese approach :)
* DocAvalanche wants an unlimeted personal credit line
<wolfspraul> luckily we are far more flexible, we don't have to try to chase after or copy iphone or android phones
<wpwrak> exactly
<wolfspraul> if we really wanted to do that, we need 5-10 years and hundreds of millions of USD if not more
<wolfspraul> and by the time we are done, phones cost 20 USD and Apple makes their money elsewhere
<wolfspraul> but definitely, Openmoko was doomed the day it was born
<wolfspraul> after some years in this hardware business, I think I understand the trajectories a little better
<DocAvalanche> I don't give a shit about where $fruit makes money, nor do I care about Balmer's deao stick
<wolfspraul> financing, volume, yield, returns, innovation, risk, etc.
<DocAvalanche> wolfspraul: funny you say that now, wasn't that sth I called you with a really foul mood sometime 00:45 in the night?
<wolfspraul> but I think Openmoko helped a lot of people learn a lot :-)
<wolfspraul> DocAvalanche: ahh :-)
<wpwrak> you're comparing apples and oranges. of course there's no point to try to compete in the race-to-the-bottom segment. but you can try to establish yourself in a niche where margins are better.
<wolfspraul> I have no problem admitting I know nothing and learn from the masters like you.
<wolfspraul> hard to beat your experience with a clear mind over how many years??? :-)
<wpwrak> but also that becomes impossible if the whole market is already happily in race-to-the-bottom mode
<wolfspraul> sorry indeed, I was a clueless software guy back then...
<wolfspraul> make hardware
<wpwrak> ;-)
<wolfspraul> didn't work
<wolfspraul> yes all agree
<wolfspraul> I don't think it's such a bad 'race to bottom', I think the investments are made carefully and being recouped.
<wolfspraul> the race to bottom segment is in greater China and they will jump ship as fast as they jumped onboard
<wolfspraul> no need to spend our brain cells on them
<wolfspraul> Asus is already denying discontinuing Android tablets :-)
<wolfspraul> look at Amazon, they are far more professional. when will they have a phone? maybe 1-1.5 years from now?
<wolfspraul> but indeed, we cannot compete with that. they have lots of pieces in place that cost billions in financing to build up.
<wpwrak> the problem are the copycats. once a product category has been commodized, they kill the margins
<DocAvalanche> wpwrak: (niche) not at all, see zoom-II, see dedicated inventory reader, rollerblade servant cashiers, whatnot
<wolfspraul> not sure. where do you see that specifically?
<wpwrak> before openmoko, i had a project with philips. there, i heard about their little problems with making DVD players. what would you think about getting into DVD (or Blueray) players, say, today ? nice margins, eh ? ;-)
<wolfspraul> DocAvalanche: say that again? you see business opportunities in those spaces or not?
<wpwrak> back than, it was just about to collapse
<DocAvalanche> I bet if we'd have followed my idea to go for a SAT-phone back when, OM was still alive. Well not really as I entered too late
<wpwrak> and it's happening with the phones now. the cheapsters are already trying to erode the android market
<wolfspraul> ok but are the dvd & blueray makers profitable now? have they already recouped their investments and just running cash cows now? I think most companies are controlled, otherwise they will not be around too long.
<wpwrak> they're not quite competitive enough, but that's only a question of time
<DocAvalanche> wolfspraul: wait a minute, let me dig up a URL
<wolfspraul> DocAvalanche: you mean a more targeted device? yes, today I would agree. but... I can also tell you it would have been flat out impossible, 100% impossible, to communicate this product within the Taiwanese management and financing environment.
<DocAvalanche> ACK ACK ACK ACK ACK ACK ACK ACK ACK ACK ACK
<DocAvalanche> :-(((((((((((
<DocAvalanche> also within EE
<wolfspraul> everywhere
<wolfspraul> the culture is consistent :-)
<wolfspraul> it's not wrong
<wpwrak> yes, there is the problem. they like big volume because they're used to compete on price
<wolfspraul> the left and right hand actually do the same thing :-)
<wolfspraul> they absolutely cannot comprehend ideas like those, and then they cannot execute on them understandably
<wolfspraul> I would not spend 1h of my time anymore to break through this or somehow unite or explain or whatever.
<wolfspraul> some things are best kept as they are
<DocAvalanche> 2k bucks
<DocAvalanche> +/-
<DocAvalanche> it's a tank
<DocAvalanche> for *real* work, and for real freaks
<wolfspraul> yes
<DocAvalanche> And I bet my back we'd have sold as many of those as we did on GTA02, just at 7 times the price
<wolfspraul> 1600-2000 USD, Korean company
<wolfspraul> yes it's possible and a worthwhile endeavor, but you need a strong gut on the marketing side, and it may fail still as a business
<wolfspraul> but the pricing and all is right, product, etc.
<wolfspraul> now - how many can they sell?
<DocAvalanche> and without the decay in sells
<wolfspraul> I challenge you to find a Taiwanese company that can pull something like this off.
<wolfspraul> it just doesn't work and will not happen for a variety of cultural reasons, extremely unlikely imho.
<wolfspraul> how many sales can they generate?
<DocAvalanche> meh, I'd rather rely on goldelico than any korean fools to pull that off
<wolfspraul> omg
<wolfspraul> :-)
<wolfspraul> so sales? how many? a few hundred?
<wolfspraul> do they have potential customers in advance?
<wolfspraul> is this product made for a big customer first, then put on the general market later?
<DocAvalanche> you easily can get a 10k sales for McDonals one week, and another 5k for Ikea to do their field material tracking next week
<wolfspraul> yes but you have to have that contract first
<DocAvalanche> no, you have to have the product first, then offer to customers that didn't even know they need it
<DocAvalanche> ask mrmoku, when I posted that URL he went "dang, couldn't you tell that last week?! a customer searched for sth like that"
<wolfspraul> some Apple stories seem to have gotten into you already :-)
<wolfspraul> I am very interested in this kind of approach, and totally agree with you. But my next question would be about their potential customers and how it got started.
<wolfspraul> I doubt they just make it because the CEO likes it just like that, Steve Jobs style.
<wolfspraul> it's possible of course, but I doubt it and that would be my next question to find out about.
<DocAvalanche> prolly not
<DocAvalanche> no idea how to pull that off at business side
<DocAvalanche> but then OTOH OM wasn't great at that in the end of the day either, eh?
<wolfspraul> Om was chasing a dream, I think we were quite good at that, no? :-)
<DocAvalanche> WE were, but mgmt/VC was insane I heard
<wolfspraul> I think all fine, worth trying.
<wolfspraul> written off in a heartbeat
<DocAvalanche> c'mon you offered me to buy a CMU200 and get it with me to Germany in Nov, and in Jan I got set free
<DocAvalanche> there has to be something terribly odd going on at capital side/management
<wolfspraul> are the jumps in your dreams always logical?
<DocAvalanche> of course not, that's why I'm not billyboy gates though I'm for sure more competent than him
<DocAvalanche> the essential trick is to find *good* business lizards
<DocAvalanche> who optimize for *you* and your dream to come true, rather than shareholder value
<wpwrak> DocAvalanche: wolfspraul seems to be in one of his defeatist periods, so he has an argument for everything why it can't work. rememeber #1024 ? :)
<DocAvalanche> hehe
<wolfspraul> ah wait, I have a practical question
<wolfspraul> I have a meeting with some Tizen guy lined up
<DocAvalanche> good
<wolfspraul> what is your take on Tizen?
* DocAvalanche loves practical Q
<wolfspraul> more practical than useless stories of the past... :-)
<wolfspraul> I need to be *positive* with the Tizen guy :-)
<DocAvalanche> I heard they killed my GTA04 project, or was that some other shitty company?
<DocAvalanche> aaah Tizen, sorry
<wolfspraul> what's the latest in maemo/meego n900/n950/nWhatever land?
<DocAvalanche> well, I think they needed another name, to segregate from meego-harmattan
<wolfspraul> and : where is the upside?
<wolfspraul> sorry I cannot follow on all this twists :-) but... what's the most positive thing you could expect from Tizen?
<wolfspraul> where could it go? what products? what community? what financing?
<DocAvalanche> latest is N9 with meego-harmattan which actually is a maemo with meego skin
<DocAvalanche> for unclear reasons they slaughtered meego and created tizen. No idea if it's all the same, or yet another insane change of horses during middle of race
<wolfspraul> the N9 is the one they only introduce in carefully selected markets so it cannot take off, right?
<DocAvalanche> all I can tell is meego imploded with a bang that's been louder than anything else I heard last few years
<wolfspraul> hmm
<wolfspraul> where are the maemo/meego community masses streaming to now?
<wolfspraul> :-)
<DocAvalanche> yep, N9 isn't sold globally
<DocAvalanche> so they don't want to "canibalize" their win crap
<wolfspraul> well yeah, I looked at the markets and saw some sinister attempt at making it fail :-)
<wolfspraul> it's so obvious, the managers behind should line up for bigger and better things in politics or banking
<DocAvalanche> (masses) idling in zonbie state at #meego X-P
<wolfspraul> hmm
<wolfspraul> anybody excited about Tizen?
<DocAvalanche> not afaik
<wolfspraul> ok
<wolfspraul> thanks
<wpwrak> so what's that "tizen guy" ? a developer ? a device manufacturer ? intel ?
<DocAvalanche> nobody got the rationale behind it, and it's actually hard to see why we need to abandon meego now and what's the shiny thing, the tasty cookie on top of tizen
<DocAvalanche> it's probably just another "let's kick this out, it smells like Nokia"
<wolfspraul> wpwrak: wait, need to check. Jon's work...
<DocAvalanche> who's johncylee?
<wolfspraul> I'm just trying to find out about Tizen a bit more, since it's completely 100% out of my scope
<DocAvalanche> (found him at #openmoko-devel today) :-D
<wolfspraul> I bought a Nokia N770 with great passion many years ago, but lost interest quickly because it was clear Nokia was not serious about it. that was it for me in that direction, then I joined Om next :-)
<wolfspraul> I don't think I missed much at anything that came past the N770
<wolfspraul> wpwrak: I think it's the CEO of a Chinese Android service provider
<wolfspraul> I could imagine a swift "jump ship" movement of money-loosing Chinese Android manufacturers soon, maybe he wants to explore alternatives...
<wolfspraul> all in motion, nothing specific, not even the meeting
<wolfspraul> but I do my homework on Tizen at least
<DocAvalanche> /join #tizen
<DocAvalanche> CBA, they lost all credibility for me
<wpwrak> what's an android service provider ?
<DocAvalanche> carrier?
<wpwrak> app-store ? :)
<wpwrak> sw developer ?
<DocAvalanche> or that :-D
<DocAvalanche> the hard moments in life are when you work for a week to set up a topic minutes list for a community distro meeting for one week, and then *nobody* shows up at that meeting, not even the ones who suggested and agreed upon it
<DocAvalanche> so I felt like going out getting booze, but I seem to not feel any better
<wpwrak> so yuo set up a meeting ?
<DocAvalanche> nah, I only have tried to make the today's meeting more efficient that last week's where we missed some topics list
<DocAvalanche> I however pushed for maemo-CSSU Stable first release and hoped for Testing release rev17 being out since 4 days today
<wolfspraul> wpwrak: in China there's a whole bunch of companies helping manufacturers make Android work on their devices
<wolfspraul> such as our oxlab friends in Taiwan :-)
<wolfspraul> they can make real money right now, because the manufacturers are lost (of course), having been used to 'installing' stuff from Microsoft, and now thrown back to a 'git clone' level, they need someone bridge the gap from 'git clone' to 'install'
<wolfspraul> that's a mad race to the bottom indeed
<wolfspraul> you could make a herd study on all this :-)
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<wolfspraul> does anybody know zyth's email address?
<wolfspraul> he tried to reach me a few days ago on irc, but now the contact broke off and I cannot find an email address in my archives... oh well...
<wpwrak> (android installer) sounds like fun :)
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<kyak> !seen zyth
<qi-bot> kyak, zyth (yura@95-27-28-26.broadband.corbina.ru) was last seen parting #qi-hardware 4 days 11 hours 27 minutes ago (14.11. 19:57), after spending 4 hours 7 minutes there.
<wolfspraul> kyak: ah hi :-) when someone tweets about qihardware - will it be routed into the channel here?
<kyak> wolfspraul: it is routed here! :)
<kyak> you can try @mentioning
<kyak> perhaps you could PM him or find his e-mail there
<kyak> and everybody in the channel can tweet, too
<wolfspraul> yes, perfect. let's see how this goes...
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<vladislavkorotne> hey guys
<vladislavkorotne> what's up?
<vladislavkorotne> i have a problem here
<vladislavkorotne> once i had some spare time today (finally!) I decided to play around with my NanoNote that was left on the desk in the beginning of september. First thing i did is changed the skin of Gmenu2x. then I pressed X to go back to the main menu, pressed L to switch to the next tab, but instead the screen just went black. When i powered it on, it booted OpenWRT as usual, but Gmenu2x didnt appear. Just black screen with backlight. Is this just becaus
<wolfspraul> so... was there a reboot somewhere?
<vladislavkorotne> it turned off on its own
<vladislavkorotne> and still, after 5 minutes connected to usb, gmenu2x refuses to start
<wolfspraul> so it boots, you see the kernel messages and openwrt, and then screen goes black?
<wolfspraul> try ctrl-alt-f1 .. f5
<vladislavkorotne> doesnt help
<vladislavkorotne> well, if i press them BEFORE gmenu2x is supposed to appear, i get the console
<vladislavkorotne> but then screen goes blank
<wolfspraul> maybe just the screen saver? press the shift key or so to see whether it comes back on?
<vladislavkorotne> it doesnt
<wolfspraul> I had the impression I think in the 08-27 image that the screen blanking was way too fast, for my taste
<vladislavkorotne> i use the one i built in may :P
<vladislavkorotne> when i had ubifs problems
<wolfspraul> if you have no original data on the device, how about reflashing to the new image?
<wolfspraul> oh, I see [self-built]
<vladislavkorotne> i have no linux machine at hand :(
<vladislavkorotne> can i reflash on a mac? are there any binaries for the tools i need?
<wolfspraul> better not, but I don't know
<vladislavkorotne> maybe i can disable gmenu2x over ssh?
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<vladislavkorotne> looking closer at the logs reveals a FS problem :/
<vladislavkorotne> are there binaries of tools needed for flashing for debian?
<wolfspraul> yes I think so
<wolfspraul> in fact we have debian packages, no?
<vladislavkorotne> yep i found em
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<qi-bot> [commit] Ayla: Removed per-application volume setting. (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/gmenu2x/c7af4b1
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<qi-bot> [commit] Ayla: fbcon: use kstrtoint instead of deprecated function simple_strtoul. (jz-3.1) http://qi-hw.com/p/qi-kernel/1ad417b
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<vladislavkorotne> hello everyone
<vladislavkorotne> wont having only 88% free on rootfs cause any problems?
<vladislavkorotne> or, can i create a swap file instead of swap partition?
<vladislavkorotne> and, sorry for disturbing — how to format sd card for use in NanoNote? I cant find the link :/
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<kristianpaul> vladislavkorotne: hi
<vladislavkorotne> hi :)
<vladislavkorotne> kristianpaul: could you pls tell me, wont having only 88% free on rootfs cause any problems?
<kristianpaul> using nanonote console try fsck.vfat /dev/mmcblk0
<kristianpaul> about 88% free space, i dont think so
<vladislavkorotne> whats it do?
<kristianpaul> format sd card (aka memcard)
<Ayla> no it doesn't
<kristianpaul> no?
<vladislavkorotne> yep
<kristianpaul> oh..
<vladislavkorotne> fsck is check
<kristianpaul> ah yes :)
<vladislavkorotne> mkfs.fat or what? :P
<kristianpaul> yes that i think
<vladislavkorotne> and yep, how to set up fstab commands? like, mount the ubi data (2gig) partition to /data and Sd to /sd ?
<kristianpaul> usually hacking openwrt nanoote init script
<vladislavkorotne> how?
<vladislavkorotne> it works on latest OpenWRT?
<vladislavkorotne> 'cause i have no /etc/init.d/start
<vladislavkorotne> ouch!
<vladislavkorotne> root@BenNanoNote:~# /etc/init.d/start enable
<vladislavkorotne> -ash: /etc/init.d/start: Permission denied
<kristianpaul> yes i think is called nanonote or something
<kristianpaul> let met power on my ben first
<vladislavkorotne> but why is it permission denied?
<kristianpaul> try a ls first to see if exits
<kristianpaul> oops
<kristianpaul> s/exits/is there
<vladislavkorotne> yes
<vladislavkorotne> start is there
<kristianpaul> hum, well you said last openwrt and mine is near to that but the only script i see related to ben nanonote specific boot is
<kristianpaul> /etc/init.d/ben-nanonote
<vladislavkorotne> root@BenNanoNote:~# ls /etc/init.d/
<vladislavkorotne> atd fstab sysctl
<vladislavkorotne> ben-cyrillic gdk-pixbuf-query-loaders telnet
<vladislavkorotne> ben-nanonote led triggerhappy
<vladislavkorotne> boot network umount
<vladislavkorotne> cron openvpn usb
<vladislavkorotne> dbus pango-querymodules watchdog
<vladislavkorotne> done rcS
<vladislavkorotne> dropbear start
<kristianpaul> ok, so why you asked for lastest openwrt update?
<kristianpaul> or my ben is oudated now and the script is now called start again..
<vladislavkorotne> because start is not executable
<kristianpaul> anyway, so you cant edit it, wht about just see it? same permision msg?
<vladislavkorotne> i can see, but i need to launch
<kristianpaul> why?
<vladislavkorotne> this in manual —> /etc/init.d/start enable
<kristianpaul> oh yes
<kristianpaul> an yes btw for that mkfs.vfat /dev/mmcblk0, you need opkg install mkdosfs
<vladislavkorotne> so should i just chmod the start file?
<kristianpaul> o just use sh i gues
<kristianpaul> s
<kristianpaul> sh /etc/init.d/start enable
<vladislavkorotne> ok done
<vladislavkorotne> reboot?
<kristianpaul> as you wish :)
<vladislavkorotne> ok lets try :P
<vladislavkorotne> mount -t vfat /dev/mmcblk0 /sd
<vladislavkorotne> right?
<vladislavkorotne> i feel like a n00b after 3 months w/o linux
<kristianpaul> right = try most of the time i think
<kristianpaul> but yes it seems it could work
<vladislavkorotne> no mmcblk0 in my /dev ;/
<kristianpaul> ls /dev/mmc*
<vladislavkorotne> nothing
<kristianpaul> try update last openwrt release first then :)
<vladislavkorotne> done this morning :/
<kristianpaul> okay i'll do and see
<vladislavkorotne> nevermind
<vladislavkorotne> works great
<kristianpaul> good
<vladislavkorotne> and i shouldve just chmod'ed the start file :P and yes, "sh /etc/..." wont work :P
<vladislavkorotne> root@BenNanoNote:~# df
<vladislavkorotne> Filesystem 1K-blocks Used Available Use% Mounted on
<vladislavkorotne> ubi0:rootfs 471192 414372 56820 88% /
<vladislavkorotne> tmpfs 13928 32 13896 0% /tmp
<vladislavkorotne> tmpfs 512 0 512 0% /dev
<vladislavkorotne> ubi1:data 1417844 168184 1244820 12% /data
<vladislavkorotne> /dev/mmcblk0 246060 5556 240504 2% /sd
<vladislavkorotne> :D
<kristianpaul> :)
<vladislavkorotne> thank you very much
<vladislavkorotne> see ya :)
<kristianpaul> bye
<vladislavkorotne> thanks again
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<kristianpaul> ha, OpenWrt boot is very cool, but seemns i got a unknow mount root fs message with latest release..
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<vladislavkorotne> hi guys :) I'm trying to port the "podfather" demo to Ben NanoNote and i wanted to ask if there's a way to link to libmikmod, as -lmikmod just doesnt get it done :/
<jow_laptop> how does your makefile look like?
<jow_laptop> libmikmod is packaged and available
<vladislavkorotne> yep i know
<vladislavkorotne> i'm using "lightweight-porting" — compiling right on the Ben.
<vladislavkorotne> heres the makefile: http://cl.ly/023w3D3d3n0x1w1k1v09
<jow_laptop> oh
<jow_laptop> don't know about native compilation
<vladislavkorotne> maybe -llibmikmod?
<jow_laptop> however are you sure the problem isn't with rpath-link?
<jow_laptop> what is the exact error?
<vladislavkorotne> some of the last lines of log:
<vladislavkorotne> gcc podfather.o rotazoom.o shadeplasma.o text_printer.o sprite.o clovermap.o copper.o vectorballs.o bobs.o tunnel.o rubber.o end.o fb_sdl.o -o podfather `sdl-config --cflags` -Wall -g -lm `sdl-config --static-libs` -lmikmod
<vladislavkorotne> /bin/sh: sdl-config: not found
<vladislavkorotne> /usr/bin/ld: cannot find -lmikmod
<vladislavkorotne> collect2: ld returned 1 exit status
<vladislavkorotne> make: *** [podfather] Error 1
<jow_laptop> is libmikmod even installed?
<vladislavkorotne> yes
<jow_laptop> try adding -L/usr/lib
<vladislavkorotne> maybe add the path to it as an argument to gcc?
<vladislavkorotne> oh lemme try
<jow_laptop> tzhat should be defualt actually but I recall that there where issues with the defualt search paths in the past
<vladislavkorotne> still the same :(
<vladislavkorotne> gcc podfather.o rotazoom.o shadeplasma.o text_printer.o sprite.o clovermap.o copper.o vectorballs.o bobs.o tunnel.o rubber.o end.o fb_sdl.o -o podfather `sdl-config --cflags` -Wall -g -lm `sdl-config --static-libs` -L/usr/lib -lmikmod
<vladislavkorotne> /bin/sh: sdl-config: not found
<vladislavkorotne> /usr/bin/ld: cannot find -lmikmod
<vladislavkorotne> collect2: ld returned 1 exit status
<vladislavkorotne> make: *** [podfather] Error 1
<vladislavkorotne> trying to add the path to the file into CFLAGS...
<jow_laptop> and /usr/lib/libmikmod.so is there?
<vladislavkorotne> yes it is
<vladislavkorotne> root@BenNanoNote:/data/podf/podfather_src# ls /usr/lib/libmik*
<vladislavkorotne> /usr/lib/libmikmod.so.2 /usr/lib/libmikmod.so.2.0.4
<vladislavkorotne> should it be .so or it doesnt matter if it has .so.2 or .so.2.0.4?
<jow_laptop> there should be a .so
<jow_laptop> which should be a symlink to .so.2
<vladislavkorotne> oh, i'll try to symlink :P
<jow_laptop> which in turn should be a symlink to .so.2.0.4
<jow_laptop> I'll check whether libmikmod has a packaging issue
<vladislavkorotne> also, is there sdl-config somewhere?
<jow_laptop> no
<jow_laptop> it will just output something like -I/usr/include/SDL for --cflags and -lsdl for --ldflags
<vladislavkorotne> no issue with libmikmod after symlink, now errors for sdl: http://cl.ly/3m1a1F3X0I1w2731213y
<vladislavkorotne> f-ck
<jow_laptop> you can directly add that to the Makefile
<jow_laptop> yeah, -lsdl
<vladislavkorotne> -lsdl for LDFLAGS, -I/usr/include/SDL to CFLAGS, checkin
<jow_laptop> ah sorry, it might be -lSDL-1.2
<jow_laptop> you need to check how /usr/lib/libSDL* is called
<vladislavkorotne> i'll check :P
<vladislavkorotne> root@BenNanoNote:/data/podf/podfather_src# ls /usr/lib/libSDL*
<vladislavkorotne> /usr/lib/libSDL-1.2.so.0 /usr/lib/libSDL_image.so
<vladislavkorotne> /usr/lib/libSDL-1.2.so.0.11.3 /usr/lib/libSDL_mixer-1.2.so.0
<vladislavkorotne> /usr/lib/libSDL.so /usr/lib/libSDL_mixer-1.2.so.0.10.1
<vladislavkorotne> /usr/lib/libSDL_gfx.so /usr/lib/libSDL_mixer.so
<vladislavkorotne> /usr/lib/libSDL_gfx.so.13 /usr/lib/libSDL_ttf-2.0.so.0
<vladislavkorotne> /usr/lib/libSDL_gfx.so.13.5.2 /usr/lib/libSDL_ttf-2.0.so.0.6.3
<vladislavkorotne> /usr/lib/libSDL_image-1.2.so.0 /usr/lib/libSDL_ttf.so
<vladislavkorotne> /usr/lib/libSDL_image-1.2.so.0.8.2
<vladislavkorotne> which one? :o
<jow_laptop> :)
<vladislavkorotne> -1.2?
<jow_laptop> -lSDL-1.2
<jow_laptop> the others are extensions
<vladislavkorotne> also is it case sensitive?
<jow_laptop> yes
<vladislavkorotne> i typed -lsdl
<vladislavkorotne> oh...
<vladislavkorotne> oh :/
<vladislavkorotne> /usr/bin/ld: cannot find -lSDL-1.2
<vladislavkorotne> collect2: ld returned 1 exit status
<vladislavkorotne> make: *** [podfather] Error 1
<jow_laptop> ah right, symlinks again
<jow_laptop> I assume libSDL.so points to libSDL-1.2.so.0
<jow_laptop> so simply try -lSDL
<vladislavkorotne> so -lSDL, ok
<vladislavkorotne> wish i wouldnt need that server to be a hackintosh for a project, otherwise i'd put debian on it, compile toolchain and its easier :p
<vladislavkorotne> make: warning: Clock skew detected. Your build may be incomplete.
<vladislavkorotne> is that because of wrong date set?
<jow_laptop> yes
<vladislavkorotne> ah nice
<jow_laptop> or drifting clock
<vladislavkorotne> it just failed to use /dev/rtc so i wasnt able to set h/w clock
<jow_laptop> make makes heavy use of file modification times to see what to recompile and what not, a quirky clock is a problem then obviously
<vladislavkorotne> make clean && make :)
<jow_laptop> that can get annyoing for big projects like Qt or the kernel
<vladislavkorotne> yep :P
<vladislavkorotne> yay, it sorta works
<vladislavkorotne> plays 2 sequences and no sound :/
<jow_laptop> heh
<vladislavkorotne> then crash w/o error
<jow_laptop> how do oyu know it crashes?
<vladislavkorotne> it should play next but it gets me to conslole
<jow_laptop> I see
<vladislavkorotne> need to make it fullscreen too
<jow_laptop> I suppose its time to fire up gdb then
<vladislavkorotne> install it first ;)
<vladislavkorotne> because i use a mac, i cant have internet on Ben, whats the dependencies for gdb?
<jow_laptop> Depends: libreadline, libncurses
<jow_laptop> both libs have no further depends (and are likely installed already due to other software)
<vladislavkorotne> ok :)
<vladislavkorotne> thanks
<vladislavkorotne> how to launch it with gdb? sorry for disturbing, i feel like a complete n00b after 3 months w/o linux :P
<jow_laptop> simply gdb command
<jow_laptop> sorry
<jow_laptop> gdb --args command
<vladislavkorotne> which args
<jow_laptop> where command is what you would normaly run on the console
<jow_laptop> I mean "--args" literally
<vladislavkorotne> and will it display to the screen because it's an sdl app?
<jow_laptop> thats a good question
<jow_laptop> no gdb will print to the ocmmandline
<vladislavkorotne> how to forward it to my ssh session? :P
<vladislavkorotne> is it how it should be?:
<vladislavkorotne> root@BenNanoNote:/data/podf/podfather_src# gdb --args ./podfather
<vladislavkorotne> dlopen failed on 'libthread_db.so.1' - File not found
<vladislavkorotne> GDB will not be able to debug pthreads.
<vladislavkorotne> GNU gdb 6.8
<vladislavkorotne> Copyright (C) 2008 Free Software Foundation, Inc.
<vladislavkorotne> License GPLv3+: GNU GPL version 3 or later <http://gnu.org/licenses/gpl.html>
<vladislavkorotne> This is free software: you are free to change and redistribute it.
<vladislavkorotne> There is NO WARRANTY, to the extent permitted by law. Type "show copying"
<vladislavkorotne> and "show warranty" for details.
<vladislavkorotne> This GDB was configured as "mipsel-openwrt-linux"...
<vladislavkorotne> (gdb)
<jow_laptop> now type "run" and enter
<jow_laptop> but I guess you'll need to do that remotely to have both access to the program screen and the gdb commandline
<vladislavkorotne> ran it from ssh
<jow_laptop> ah ok
<vladislavkorotne> oh, gdbserver?
<jow_laptop> nono
<jow_laptop> ssh is fine
<vladislavkorotne> i cant awaken the screen of the nanonote :/
<vladislavkorotne> seems it isnt running
<vladislavkorotne> (gdb) run
<vladislavkorotne> Starting program: /data/podf/podfather_src/podfather
<vladislavkorotne> *** Loading... ***
<vladislavkorotne> and thats it
<vladislavkorotne> still there :/ i cant see whats on the screen but it should've crashed already
<jow_laptop> you might need to set an env var
<vladislavkorotne> killed the prog
<vladislavkorotne> screen doesnt turn on, not even after i press a key
<jow_laptop> export SDL_VIDEODRIVER=directfb; gdb ...
<vladislavkorotne> reboot first :/
<vladislavkorotne> got it!
<vladislavkorotne> if i specify the driver, it works flawlessly, but no sound
<jow_laptop> maybe you need to specify the sdl audiodriver too then
<vladislavkorotne> it's using mikmod, no?:P
<vladislavkorotne> oh, what's SDL_AUDIODRIVER= ?
<vladislavkorotne> hanged here:
<vladislavkorotne> Warning: Could not load module (Could not open requested file)
<vladislavkorotne> Program received signal SIGFPE, Arithmetic exception.
<vladislavkorotne> 0x00405b80 in rubber_frame (time=1) at rubber.c:15
<vladislavkorotne> warning: Source file is more recent than executable.
<vladislavkorotne> 15for (i=0; i<256; i++) {
<vladislavkorotne> lol what?
<jow_laptop> SIGFPE is a floating point exception
<vladislavkorotne> yep, idk why
<jow_laptop> type "continue"
<jow_laptop> to see if it is catched or if the program indeed crashes
<vladislavkorotne> Program received signal SIGFPE, Arithmetic exception.
<vladislavkorotne> 0x00405b80 in rubber_frame (time=1) at rubber.c:15
<vladislavkorotne> warning: Source file is more recent than executable.
<vladislavkorotne> 15for (i=0; i<256; i++) {
<vladislavkorotne> (gdb) continue
<vladislavkorotne> Continuing.
<vladislavkorotne> (!) [ 803: 0.000] --> Caught signal 8 (at 0x405b80, integer divide by zero) <--
<vladislavkorotne> libgcc_s.so.1 must be installed for pthread_cancel to work
<vladislavkorotne> Program received signal SIGABRT, Aborted.
<vladislavkorotne> 0x2ba6d134 in raise () from /lib/libc.so.0
<vladislavkorotne> (gdb) continue
<vladislavkorotne> Continuing.
<vladislavkorotne> (!) [ 803: 2.795] --> Caught signal 6 (unknown origin) <--
<vladislavkorotne> Program received signal SIGABRT, Aborted.
<vladislavkorotne> 0x2ba6d134 in raise () from /lib/libc.so.0
<vladislavkorotne> (gdb) continue
<jow_laptop> looks not good
<vladislavkorotne> oops this log didnt go through, here it is: http://cl.ly/2k3h1Y0o092y3Z2O2b18
<jow_laptop> where can I find "podfather" ?
<vladislavkorotne> lemme chk
<vladislavkorotne> i had it on my hdd since 2006
<jow_laptop> one thing you can try is to add "-msoft-float" to the CFLAGS and recompile it
<vladislavkorotne> lemme try
<vladislavkorotne> export SDL_VIDEODRIVER=directfb; expo
<vladislavkorotne> rt SDL_AUDIODRIVER=dsp; /data/podf/podfather_src/podfather
<vladislavkorotne> still on sound
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<vladislavkorotne> ok, heres the build log with -msoft-float: http://cl.ly/3I3m3O3s3b372q2Q3r06
<vladislavkorotne> crashed even earlier
<vladislavkorotne> (!) [ 882: 0.000] --> Caught signal 6 (unknown origin) <--
<vladislavkorotne> Aborted
<jow_laptop> I don't know then
<kristianpaul> nice meatiatomb !
<vladislavkorotne> ?
<kristianpaul> vladislavkorotne: i just finishing flashing my nanonote with lastest build
<vladislavkorotne> ah :)
<kristianpaul> now can i tranfers files via this web UI..
<vladislavkorotne> really?
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<kristianpaul> hum gtk* apps seems have broken font
<kristianpaul> i just get squares instead of readable characters
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<PiLeS> Hey hey!
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<PiLeS> I have 2 bricked Bens here, anyone can help?
<Ayla> give me one :p
<PiLeS> They enter USB_BOOT mode just fine, but flashing always fails (2 different cables, 2 different PCs, 8 different ports).
<PiLeS> Re Ayla ;-) nope
<Ayla> the PCs are linux or windows?
<PiLeS> Linux
<Ayla> and what are you doing exactly?
<PiLeS> I tried the reflash-ben.sh method and also the usbtools methods. erasing works fine but writing always fails.
<PiLeS> ==
<PiLeS> fetching kernel...
<PiLeS> booting device...
<PiLeS> flashing kernel...
<PiLeS> Done: 0/4
<PiLeS> [ ]
<PiLeS> ===
<PiLeS> fatal error occured - ABORTED
<PiLeS> ===
<PiLeS> error while flashing kernel:
<PiLeS> Error - can't read bulk data from Ingenic device:64
<PiLeS> ===
<PiLeS> (errors are not always 64: there is the occasionnal -110 or others)
<Ayla> heard of pastebin.com?
<PiLeS> yup
<jow_laptop> flashing from my work desktop used to constantly fail, no matter what I tried, flashing from a thinkpad worked right away
<jow_laptop> I think some usb hosts just do not play nice
<PiLeS> OK I can try from yet another PC
<PiLeS> well rogger me senseless with a cricket bat, it just worked
<PiLeS> Dell workstations: -2; Acer laptop: 1
<jow_laptop> heh
<jow_laptop> my work desktop was a Dell too
<PiLeS> My Dells are kinda old, usb 1.1; the laptop has USB 2. Might be the reason.
<PiLeS> That, or Michael Dell tries to kill copyleft hardware ;-)
<jow_laptop> no, he probably just takes the cheapest usb hosts :)
<PiLeS> So now I'm stuck on a black sreen with the Ben character and the end of an error message at the bottom: wn-block(0,0)e to mount root fs on unkno
<PiLeS> WTF?
<jow_laptop> there is *IMPORTANT* update on __reflash_ben.sh__ please update your local file.
<jow_laptop> maybe that?
<PiLeS> I just downloaded the new script... so unless the location is different...? Ill check
<PiLeS> No I have the right one. The boot sequence just won't complete.
<PiLeS> The machines are stuck, too: only way to shut down is the reset button (or remove the battery)
<jow_laptop> is it possible that the u-boot is misconfigured?
<jow_laptop> maybe it passwd wrong kernel args
<PiLeS> maybe I should use a slightly older image? what image are you guys using?
<jow_laptop> its been a long time since I played with my ben
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<PiLeS> OK there is a problem with the fs image I think (the flashing gives a divide by zero error). I'll just use an older image.
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<PiLeS> OK still doesn't work with the 2011-08-27 image but at least there's no splash screen so I can see the error in full! Progress!
<jow_laptop> if the error persists across multiple image versions I asdsume its indeed some bootloader thing
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<jow_laptop> did you try reflash-ben.sh -b yet?
<jow_laptop> it is supposed to replace u-boot
<PiLeS> Yes; the problem is with the rootfs: the boot loader tries to find / on block (0,0) apparently. I just need to pass the correct location as "root="
<jow_laptop> which is defined in the u-boot environment
<jow_laptop> maybe the partition layout changed since the version you had on your ben
<PiLeS> Should not be a problem; one of my Bens is pretty new. Also, I reflashed the fs as well as the bootloader so there definitely should not be any prob in theory.
<PiLeS> Well, my bad; I didn't copy the fs correctly. My laptop is in the bedroom; not my natural environment for these things. I'd prefer doing it from this machine but the USB controller won't let me
<PiLeS> OK so I now have one running JLime and one OpenWRT. I'm a happy geek again. Now to reinstall nethack and quake... :D
<kristianpaul> :-)