01:18 <dw_> i've ended up with a kimdecent b12 stick i bought someone but they never used

01:19 <dw_> attempting to talk to it via adb results in what looks like a crash. any command i send results in maybe 1 or 2 lines of output followed by "device offline" when i try to run another command. sound familiar at all?

15:08 <d9500> are the allwinner a20 based eoma68 boards shipping yet?

15:16 <buZz> are any eoma68 boards?

15:16 <buZz> because i couldnt find any info on that

15:18 <d9500> i read somewhere that the eoma68 card which is supposed to be used in the kde flying squirrel tablet when it's released is going to have a dual core processor--since the a20 and the a10 are pin-compatible, i'm assuming that it'll be the same card with an a20 in it instead of the originally planned a10...and therefore, the card itself should be available for purchase too

15:20 <d9500> personally, i'm wondering what the cost on a production run of boards with more powerful CPUs (rockhip rk3188 would be nice!) would be, or if that's even possible without reworking the entire board design

15:21 <d9500> a20's are weak stuff with only two cores at about 1 GHz, and a quad core cortex-a9 is really the minimum that should be considered for a modern computer, be it laptop, desktop, or tablet

15:22 <buZz> i dont really agree, a20 can run chromium nice and fast

15:22 <dw_> if a more modern chip existed, you'd claim it was the minimum :)

15:22 <buZz> provided it finally comes back to debian 7 armhf >_<

15:23 <buZz> d9500: anyway most of the stuff you are asking is answered on rhombus's site

15:23 <buZz> and afaik none of it is shipping

15:24 <d9500> vaporware?

15:24 <d9500> no insult meant, but it does seem like the lead time is long

15:24 <buZz> lead time on new products is always long

15:24 <buZz> especially when a small company is taking most initiative

15:25 <d9500> or perhaps i'm spoiled by the consumer market, where if it's advertised it's usually available (if not at the local big box store, someone on ebay has hardware they're willing to part with)..i've never bought a dev board before

15:25 <buZz> i am using a EOMA68 alike solution

15:25 <buZz> motorola lapdock with a cubieboard2 and cables between them :)

15:27 <d9500> i'm actually thinking of biting the bullet and buying one of those bsquare tablets with the qsd 800's in them..but yikes, $1099??

15:27 <buZz> i am waiting for hardkernel to make an odroid with a exynos 5 octa

15:28 <d9500> buZz, 5410?

15:28 <buZz> yes

15:29 <d9500> hmmm..isn't the GPU on that going to be a problem?

15:29 <buZz> dont really care, OpenGLES is a problem anyway

15:29 <d9500> oh..you don't need 3d for what you do?

15:29 <buZz> i could use it, but not as OpenGLES

15:29 <buZz> doesnt look like any ARM board will do OpenGL any time soon

15:30 <penguin42> how much?!

15:30 <buZz> 843853748 euro!

15:30 <d9500> penguin42, http://store.bsquare.com/catalog/index.cfm?fuseaction=product&theParentId=160&id=2838

15:30 <d9500> over 1000 us dollars

15:30 <penguin42> d9500: For that money I'd hope it comes with someone to do the work for me

15:31 <d9500> penguin42, yeah, i'm thinking perhaps wait for the sony xperia ZU or samsung galaxy note III and hope someone ports a real gnu/linux to it

15:34 <d9500> buZz, are the GPUs in ARM boards just not capable of full open GL? or is it more a driver issue? GLES is a subset of the functionality, in OpenGL, isn't it? What are SoC GPUs missing to be able to do full OpenGL?

15:34 <buZz> d9500: afaik OpenGL and OpenGLES are very close to what the GPUs are doing

15:34 <buZz> so i doubt its a driver issue

15:35 <buZz> there are some projects working on doing realtime translation of the two

15:35 <penguin42> buZz: I don't think that's quite true

15:35 <buZz> there are also finished projects but they are patented/proprietary so meh

15:35 <penguin42> buZz: My understanding is that OpenGL has the possibility of storing more data on the card/driver side, where as OpenGLES is more based around the app pushing the data on each frame

15:36 <penguin42> buZz: and some hardware designs suite one more than the other

15:36 <buZz> yeah and the state machine is a bit different i think

15:43 <d9500> ok, i'll admit some of that was a little over my head. honestly, for me it's more like--meh...you want my money, just give me a pocketable device with a quad-core or better SoC, 2 GB or more of RAM, a GPU that can do OpenGL 3.0 or GLES 3.0 or better with open drivers, and full (not Android only!) linux support, and i'll buy.

15:43 <d9500> heh..that's not asking a lot is it?

15:44 <penguin42> d9500: The only hard thing there is the open drivers for the graphics

15:44 <buZz> i dont want your money

15:44 <buZz> yeah do any open source arm video drivers even exist nowadays? that can do 3D?

15:44 <penguin42> what state is freedreeno in?

15:45 <buZz> no idea, dont have such a devices

15:45 <buZz> -s

15:45 <buZz> ah seems to do hw 3d

15:46 <d9500> buZz, rob clark at redhat has gotten working 3d support (merged in mesa 9.2) for the adreno 2xx GPUs in some earlier snapdragons, and he's got working 3d on the adreno 320 in the google nexus 4 and inforce 6410 dev boards.

15:46 <buZz> d9500: he probably is using http://freedreno.github.io/

15:46 <d9500> with any luck, that'll be ready in time for mesa 9.2 as well.

15:47 <penguin42> not sure the Lima guys have got any closer to working on X?

15:47 <d9500> buZz, yeah, i check that site regularly. alas, i've no device to actually download and build the code on

15:48 <buZz> dont think so penguin42, only thing i have seen is techdemos

15:52 <d9500> afaik, here's a summary: freedreno is the most feature-complete right now, lima is getting there, but nothing an end-user could reasonably be expected to utilize, and there's next to no work at all on anything powervr. i would say "moral of the story is vote wit your dollars or euros and by qualcomm hardware, but the freedreno driver is an independent project, so it's not like qualcomm really deserves your dollars anyway.

15:53 <d9500> personally, i'm going to snicker and say "i told you so" if intel comes in with bay trail and wipes the floor with these "we don't care about foss" ARM gpu vendors

15:53 <penguin42> d9500: Yeh it doesn't help them

15:54 <penguin42> d9500: But I'm not too sure whether Intel will use their normal graphics stuff on the low power stuff

15:54 <d9500> penguin42, bay trail will use a cut-down ivy bridge GPU integrated onto the chip

15:55 <penguin42> good - I hope so

15:55 <d9500> and intel's been pushing bay trail code into the kernel, libdrm, x driver, and mesa like it's going out of style. the support is already there

15:56 <penguin42> d9500: Problem is though it's only a tiny proportion of the buyers who care

15:56 <buZz> < 0.1%

15:57 <buZz> >50% of users are 'HOW DO I INSTALL XBMC'

15:57 <buZz> 'you cant' 'THIS IS A HORRIBLE PRODUCT'

15:57 <buZz> man, >50% doesnt even google wtf the hardware is before buying

15:58 <d9500> penguin42, only a tiny percentage who care about freedom..but there's a large percentage who care about performance. http://www.extremetech.com/computing/160320-intel-bay-trail-benchmark-appears-online-crushes-fastest-snapdragon-arm-soc-by-30

15:58 <penguin42> d9500: Yeh but that's probably not got a vast degree to do with the opennesss

16:00 <d9500> no, the openness is just a side benefit for most, if they care at all. it does make things much easier for the vast ROMing community, though. no more copying over binary blobs for the vendor's image, no more using outdated kernels b/c the vendor only support 3.0.x (i'm looking at you, rockchip!)

16:00 <d9500> from the*

16:07 <d9500> anyway, bbl

17:19 <lkcl> penguin42: thanks.

17:22 <rz2k> [19:29:56] <buZz> doesnt look like any ARM board will do OpenGL any time soon - Vivante cores do OpenGL on imx6

17:23 <rz2k> you can even find a video from jas-hacks running some simple opengl game on gk802 dongle

17:25 <buZz> wow, they really do opengl?

17:26 <penguin42> seem to be a reverse eng attempt for that as well https://github.com/laanwj/etna_viv

17:26 <buZz> all i see about vivante is opengles ...

18:06 <victhor> I don't know if it really does support opengl. I have an i.MX6 board here, and OpenGL only works with software rendering, while OpenGL ES works with hardware rendering.