<damo22>
lkcl: what about retrofitting old thinkpads to eoma68 socket?
<damo22>
options are endless
<damo22>
eg, ones that cant be librebooted
<damo22>
like x201 and greater
<lkcl>
damo22: nooooo.
<damo22>
no?
<lkcl>
damo22: it'd take about 8-12 months of work, most of that involving component sourcing
<damo22>
okay
<damo22>
i have no idea
<lkcl>
damo22: it's just not worth the effort.... and you'd end up driving up the 2nd-hand market in whatever it is that was chosen
<lkcl>
looked into it about 4 years ago
<lkcl>
because yeah i thought, "surely it would be easier", right? :)
<lkcl>
wrongggg :)
<damo22>
well i happen to know that the EC used in thinkpads is mostly the same model... doesnt help?
<lkcl>
damo22: it's the connectors and the PCB layout that's the main issue
<damo22>
i mean to gut the whole electronics
<lkcl>
that, and the reverse-engineering that's needed
<damo22>
and just use the plastic enclosure
<damo22>
but i have no idea how one might use the keyboard
<damo22>
which is main feature
<lkcl>
damo22: have the keyboard connections been reverse-engineered? if no, then one of them needs to be destructively-analysed to find out the pinouts.
<lkcl>
also, what's the *exact* height of the PCB inside, will the connectors fit
<damo22>
there are schematics available for some thinkpads
<lkcl>
have there been any specialist connectors designed to fit *exactly* at the right height
<lkcl>
if not
<damo22>
yeah ok
<damo22>
idk
<lkcl>
where can you get equivalents...
<lkcl>
etc.
<lkcl>
etc.
<lkcl>
etc.
<lkcl>
etc.
<damo22>
buger
<lkcl>
it *literally* takes months to go over absolutely every single detail
<damo22>
3d print new laptop enclosure might be better anyway
<lkcl>
only to find that suppliers won't talk to you!!!
<lkcl>
eexactly....
<lkcl>
now you have control over the positions of the holes
<damo22>
you guys already have this figured out
<damo22>
its cool
<lkcl>
so you can choose *your* own connectors that *you* can get easily...
<lkcl>
:)
<damo22>
:D
<lkcl>
that's why it's been 5 years because i had to work all this out
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<damo22>
i respect that
<damo22>
what about a sound card addon
<damo22>
that has some preamps
<damo22>
that would blow everything on the market out of the water
<lkcl>
the main high-speed data bus that could cope with sound is audio
<lkcl>
:)
<damo22>
?
<damo22>
audio data bus?
<lkcl>
sorry - usb.
<lkcl>
tired.
<damo22>
ah
<lkcl>
must go back to sleep very shortly
<damo22>
np
<damo22>
thanks for being available for a few minutes
<damo22>
which one should i buy
<damo22>
i want to support
<lkcl>
you join the mailing list? link in the irc window i think
<damo22>
socket + compute card
<lkcl>
suggest getting the microdesktop and the libre tea
<damo22>
ok
<damo22>
will do
<lkcl>
cable set might be useful too
<damo22>
sure
<lkcl>
but you can get the same stuff on amazon if you prefer :)
<arossdotme>
damo22, its things like the lcd cable connector, them things are show stoppers
<arossdotme>
i think that was one thing anyway (?:)
<damo22>
ok
<damo22>
the only thing i might miss is the thinkpad keyboard
<damo22>
the rest i can live with
<damo22>
even lower quality video
<damo22>
and slower cpu
<orly_owl>
what craptop are you buying
<damo22>
like the only reason i would use a laptop over a desktop is portability, but i wouldnt want to compromise on the tactile feel of a decent keyboard otherwise i would stay with a desktop + usb keyboard
<orly_owl>
oh, EOMA68
<damo22>
yes
<damo22>
eoma68 is brilliant, i only discovered it
<damo22>
today
<damo22>
i imagine one day you can plug your compute card into a sound card with preamps or into a digital camera
<damo22>
to get custom functionality
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<damo22>
i guess for people like me someone will make a cool keyboard dock for the compute card so i can type properly
<damo22>
i wonder if the compute card be powered via usb so you can use it standalone without the socket as well
<damo22>
that would be ultimate
<damo22>
lol id love one day to hijack power from someones iBad
<damo22>
to run my main system
<orly_owl>
stick PCs are pretty close
<orly_owl>
like MK802
<arossdotme-planb>
yea the a20 card can be powered via the micro OTG usb on the edge of it
<damo22>
hahaha wicked
<arossdotme-planb>
thats what the cable set option in the crowd fund is for
<damo22>
ok i just ordered that too
<arossdotme-planb>
or ya could power it from the breakout board
<arossdotme-planb>
with a 5v power suppy
<arossdotme-planb>
so 2 ways of powering it,
<arossdotme-planb>
the breakout will work with any eoma-68 card wheres the micro OTG usb depends on the soc
<damo22>
im tempted to give up developing libreboot
<arossdotme-planb>
aww
<orly_owl>
some monitors and tvs have usb ports, so thats always a nice power option
<damo22>
im currently working on a x86 AMD board but ram wont work yet :(
<damo22>
its painful
<damo22>
ive made almost zero progress for months
<damo22>
its actually a waste of time
<orly_owl>
which one?
<damo22>
i should give it up and see if i can contribute to this instead
<damo22>
Asus F2A85-M with Trinity processor
<orly_owl>
did you work on the D510 at all?
<damo22>
i completed the D510 from scratch
<orly_owl>
heh right
<damo22>
i completed the g41m from scratch
<damo22>
anyway, this project is future proof
<damo22>
mine only works on some second hand market
<damo22>
which is almost gone
<damo22>
is there any hardware i can buy off the shelf today that will help this project get certified if i do some reverse engineering?
<damo22>
or a status page for the hardware/software/firmware support?
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<Tsutsukakushi>
lkcl: about the crowdsupply tor thing
<Tsutsukakushi>
lkcl: you know how to explain to them that requiring captcha is blocks any tor users, right?
<Tsutsukakushi>
that means you have to be identified with 100% accuracy or you won't be let in
<arossdotme-planb>
damo22, well i admire your efforts.
<arossdotme-planb>
i guess if ya can revese engering the 3d gpu stuff that would be great :)
<arossdotme-planb>
people used the mele box to play with a10/20(?) originally theres info in the wiki
<arossdotme-planb>
firmware wise its diy with a arduino thingy to do all the odd bits
<arossdotme-planb>
idk what to suggest
<arossdotme-planb>
msg lkcl ^
<Tsutsukakushi>
:o
<arossdotme-planb>
sorry gets me wound up
<arossdotme-planb>
annoyed
<damo22>
heh cool
<damo22>
arossdotme-planb: mele a2000 has allwinner a20?
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<damo22>
i know raspberry pi requires a proprietary blob as bootloader and i heard someone is untangling the mess with cpu part and gpu part that initialises the ram, what is the story for the a20 compute card? is the bootloader libre?
<damo22>
for example i wonder if it makes any sense at all to port libreboot to your a20 compute card so you can do things like install grub as a payload on the compute module itself to boot any media that is plugged into it
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<jelly>
damo22, uboot is used and you can boot off a sd card by default
<damo22>
i am used to x86 where there is a flash chip containing the startup code, is that the case on arm? sorry where is uboot stored?
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* Emulatorman1
is building iceweasel for Parabola adapted for ARMv7 machines, it will be useful for Libre Tea Computer Card ;)
<SirCmpwn>
so what can we expect the audio deal to be for the EOMA68
<SirCmpwn>
I guess USB audio or maybe bluetooth will be the only way?
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<damo22>
i wrote a few linux drivers for usb sound card peripherals, that might help
<damo22>
(i added them on h-node.org the other day)
<damo22>
although low latency might be an issue for some people who want to do serious recording
<damo22>
i can get sub 10ms with my current set up on usb1
<damo22>
(using x86 hw)
<damo22>
however people who do serious recording, usually need huge processors for the extra DSP they do on the cpu, so you cant really win both games with freedom right away
<damo22>
i would love to try libre tea computer card with my usb audio interface
<damo22>
something like that might just work for libre tea computer card
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<lkcl>
Tsutsukakushi: did you email joshua and erik back, explaining that the captcha doesn't work?
<lkcl>
damo22: see if you can get hold of a cubietruck - it's one of the few A20 boards that has 2GB of RAM.
<damo22>
lkcl: welcome back! thanks, id be keen to hear your opinion of the usefulness of coreboot/libreboot on a libre tea card
<Tsutsukakushi>
i feel like they would listen to you better
<lkcl>
damo22: honestly... u-boot has it covered.
<lkcl>
Tsutsukakushi: ok man
<Tsutsukakushi>
>.>
<Tsutsukakushi>
the captcha doesn't fail
<Tsutsukakushi>
you can't even load
<Tsutsukakushi>
it
<Tsutsukakushi>
because you shouldn't have javascript enabled
<Tsutsukakushi>
because there are several ways to 100% accurately identify a person using javascript
<Tsutsukakushi>
one person i know had a nice theory about CF just being a front for the NSA
<Tsutsukakushi>
it's really effectife way to deanonymize most users and they voluntarily let you mitm them as well
<Tsutsukakushi>
that's why i like to call CF a mitm-as-a-service
<damo22>
maybe my second compute card can have libreboot on it... when sata connector is available, it would make more sense then so you can boot off ahci?
<lkcl>
Tsutsukakushi: okay so you're not running javascript. i'm not sure what do do, there, or what to suggest, other than perhaps going to a library or using archive.org? hmmm let's check that...
<lkcl>
sounds to me like you'll need to use bitcoin, money order or bank transfer
<lkcl>
damo22: sata will never be available on eoma68. it's on the faq as to why we had to remove it.
<lkcl>
damo22: but also, you will find that the number of embedded SoCs that actually *boot* off of SATA can be counted on ... err... one finger.
<damo22>
:) i was going to help increment, but never mind
<lkcl>
damo22: LITERALLY the ONLY embedded processor known to be capable directly off of SATA is the Freescale iMX6. it has a rather... quirky (obviously first revision) UEFI implementation in its on-board ROM
<lkcl>
damo22: embedded processors are a whole new world where things like "BIOSes" just don't exist. if you want a BIOS, you write it yourself (!!!)
<damo22>
because if libreboot can be ported to a20, you can run grub as a payload
<damo22>
so yes, i would write a whole bios in effect
<lkcl>
damo22: u-boot can already run grub as a payload. it's been ported to ARM already
<damo22>
ohhh
<damo22>
ok np
<lkcl>
damo22: nobody uses grub because u-boot can boot a direct kernel, and it's simpler
<damo22>
i see
<lkcl>
damo22: these are resource-constrained machines and there are literally something like a thousand separate licensees of the ARM processor design
<lkcl>
all of them under NDA....
<lkcl>
**NONE** of them collaborate or cooperate...
<damo22>
geez
<lkcl>
**ALL** of them do things **TOTALLY** in secrecy and completely their own way
<damo22>
:(
<lkcl>
then leave the u-boot and linux community to pick up the pieces of the debris that they leave behind
<lkcl>
usually years after the product's release
<damo22>
sad story
<lkcl>
times HUNDREDS of processors.
<Tsutsukakushi>
i don't mind running javascript for a few minutes to order it
<Tsutsukakushi>
but
<lkcl>
no wonder russell king's totally overloaded
<Tsutsukakushi>
i don't want to run javascript just to read about it
<Tsutsukakushi>
that's a big problem
<Tsutsukakushi>
and no one using tor should
<lkcl>
Tsutsukakushi: i can email you a wget --r -l 3 copy of the pages :)
<Tsutsukakushi>
you don't seem to understand the cloudflare problem very well
<lkcl>
Tsutsukakushi: it's not my web site, i would never use cloudfare - i run my own server.
<lkcl>
have done for 10 years.
<Tsutsukakushi>
you still need your own server even with cloudflare
<Tsutsukakushi>
ffs
<Tsutsukakushi>
do you even know what cloudflare is?
<lkcl>
Tsutsukakushi: how crowdsupply run their web services is up to them.
<Tsutsukakushi>
yes
<Tsutsukakushi>
and you shouldn't use their site if it means that people can't read about your thing without giving away their whole identity
<lkcl>
Tsutsukakushi: only vaguely - i've heard of it enough to know that i am not the slightest bit interested (ever) in using it, so have not made room in my brain for anything to do with it :)
<Tsutsukakushi>
you use it every day probably
<Tsutsukakushi>
well
<Tsutsukakushi>
definitely since your thing is on a site that uses it
<Tsutsukakushi>
don't be so wilfully ignorant about this subject please
<lkcl>
Tsutsukakushi: *sigh*....
* lkcl
is dealing with too much
<lkcl>
Tsutsukakushi: i'll do a clone of the pages and email them to you
<Tsutsukakushi>
you should just consider moving away from crowdsupply
<damo22>
Tsutsukakushi: how would you suggest to gain enough popularity to get funded quickly for EOMA68 without using that site?
<Tsutsukakushi>
we need a more freedom respecting alternative
<Tsutsukakushi>
damo22: are most of the people who ordered something from the site or from somewhere else?
<Tsutsukakushi>
as in
<Tsutsukakushi>
did they discover it from crowdsupply or from reddit or something like that?
<Tsutsukakushi>
my bet is on the latter
<Tsutsukakushi>
so the answer to your question is "the same way it was done this time"
<damo22>
i found similar projects by perusing the other projects that were being funded on the same site
<Tsutsukakushi>
but how many people do that
<damo22>
probably lots
<Tsutsukakushi>
i doubt
<damo22>
i actually found out about this project today because the FSF sent me an email about it, and i followed the links to the crowdsupply site, it could have been any site really, but others may find it other ways that involve the site directly
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<damo22>
its good to keep your wits about you on the internet, but this eoma68 project seems really good, im a bit confused why you find it vital to be anonymous to pledge your support for such a thing?
<damo22>
doesnt your name go on the pledgers list anyway?
<lkcl>
damo22: he's made that decision, and it's important to respect that.
<lkcl>
damo22: not if he doesn't want it to - there are ways to be anonymous and we actually require this for the FSF to be able to endorse the campaign.
<damo22>
oh i see
<Tsutsukakushi>
damo22: i find it vital for me to be able to learn about it anonymously
<Tsutsukakushi>
are you fucking retarded or something
<Tsutsukakushi>
it's not about the pledging
<Tsutsukakushi>
you can't even learn about it anonymously
<damo22>
i didnt know you needed js just to read the page
<Tsutsukakushi>
because every link that people give is to crowdsupply
<Tsutsukakushi>
you do
<Tsutsukakushi>
i just told lkcl to not be willfully ignorant about this topic, and same applies to you
<Tsutsukakushi>
have you never used tor?
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<lkcl>
damo22: cloudfare detect tor, then require a captcha. the captcha runs non-free javascript. Tsutsukakushi does not permit javascript to be run as it can be used for identity-tracking.
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<Tsutsukakushi>
yes
<Tsutsukakushi>
and this also applies to viewing the page
<lkcl>
Tsutsukakushi: i'm emailing you the mdwn page that generated the main content
<lkcl>
Tsutsukakushi: although i wrote all of them, the updates were done as emails and were transferred to mdwn text files by the crowdsupply team then copy-edited.
<lkcl>
Tsutsukakushi: i've asked them if they can tar all those up.
<Tsutsukakushi>
since you have a lot of experience running your own servers why not set up a server and generate the pages and put them there?
<Tsutsukakushi>
that's like 10 minute job
<lkcl>
Tsutsukakushi: because i'm under contract not to create any competing site. i'm pushing my luck by maintaining http://rhombus-tech.net/crowdsupply/ as it is
<lkcl>
honest / direct answer :)
<Tsutsukakushi>
it's not a competiting site
<Tsutsukakushi>
they aren't competing for the page views since they block them
<Tsutsukakushi>
it's just information
<lkcl>
apologies, still running a fever. exhausted. going to lie down again - back later.
<Tsutsukakushi>
i'm not telling you to make site where they could be purchased
<Tsutsukakushi>
just something where the information is available for people
<Tsutsukakushi>
that is not competiting
<lkcl>
Tsutsukakushi: let me know if you received the mdwn page i'll be back later, ok?
<hwpplayer1>
how many people know assembly here ? especially nasm and gnu asm
<hwpplayer1>
see you later bye
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<ngaioles>
hi people anybody study assembly here ?
<ngaioles>
talk to you later thanks
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<arossdotme-planb>
while i hope crowdsupply change and replace cloudflare. i understand while luke uses crowdsupply. in the big skeem of things its a pain for now but hopefully can be imporved in the future. lkcl struggle is not perfecting crowdsupply but progressing project eoma-68, while yes cloudflare is a put off unless ya know its worth getting past it, so i simperfise with that but we, us tor users can get around that, ive been using ran
<arossdotme-planb>
dom proxy lists lately to get around this sort of bs. right now things are as they is, and i execpt that, i feel for luke and the strain hes under, theres only so much one can do but unlike others that say that for say an excuse for non-free software lukes done bloody well at being far better than that. to my knowage cloudflare on the crowdsupplly website is the last technical pain, which thankfully is a indirect one to the
<arossdotme-planb>
project. the rest is important marketing stuff. which me thinks could do with more people to help off load too :)