marcan changed the topic of #asahi-dev to: Asahi Linux: porting Linux to Apple Silicon macs | General development | GitHub: https://alx.sh/g | Wiki: https://alx.sh/w | Logs: https://alx.sh/l/asahi-dev
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<never_released> sven: hmmm? Windows exists
<never_released> and is 100% LLP64
<never_released> lol
<never_released> also, ILP64 exists too and is used
<sven> huh?
<jix> I think the context were arm elf toolchains, which I guess at least excludes windows
<sven> I'm not arguing against LLP64 :)
<sven> my point just was to assume that a toolchain targeting aarch64 defaults to LP64 and fail loudly if it doesn't so that it can be fixed
<sven> (that "your compiler sucks" was meant to be a dumb joke)
<never_released> hm? using LLP64 is perfectly sane
<never_released> even for ELF
<sven> sure
<j`ey> they were talking about building m1n1, not in general
<sven> clang and gcc default to lp64 but there was a -mabi=lp64 in the CFLAGS that clang didn't like. so my suggestion was to just remove that and add a guard in case that default changes or if someone tries to use a different compiler that defaults to something else
<never_released> might be worth it to support them all for m1n1 anyway
<never_released> it's not as if it's a big effort
<sven> yeah, probably
<opticron> never_released, I've not read about ILP64 anywhere for AArch64
<opticron> do any of the compilers support that?
<opticron> gcc only mentions lp64 and ilp32
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<davidrysk[m]> I only know of lp64 and ilp32, and llp64 for windows but that doesn't use a different ABI than lp64
<davidrysk[m]> windows arm64 abi is basically the same as the standard aarch64 abi, which is a nice departure from what MS usually does
<opticron> llp64 is slightly different from lp64
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<davidrysk[m]> opticron: I'm aware of the memory model differences, but they don't appear to lead to ABI differences on Windows aarch64
<opticron> gotcha
<davidrysk[m]> marcan: if anything I'm concerned that there is only one vendor of either required cable
<davidrysk[m]> if that vendor stops making/selling said cable, we're out of luck
<marcan> davidrysk[m]: that's a good point
<modwizcode> i was having trouble understanding from twitter why we need this specific cable
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<never_released> davidrysk[m]: hm?
<never_released> there are differences compared to Linux
<never_released> x18 is the TEB while it's a scratch reg
<never_released> on linux
<never_released> that complies with the AAPCS standard though
<davidrysk[m]> x18 is defined as the platform register by the AAPCS though, so you shouldn't be using it as a scratch register
<never_released> Linux does that.
<never_released> Android doesn't
<davidrysk[m]> Apple says not to use it even though xnu says they don't use it
<never_released> but glibc distros do
<never_released> davidrysk[m]: XNU uses it as part of their Meltdown mitigation, but it's free to use otherwise
<never_released> basically if hw.optional.arm_kernel_protect is not present
<never_released> you can use x18 on XNU
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<never_released> if it's present, it's overridden on each ctx switch
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