sipa changed the topic of #bitcoin-wizards to: This channel is for discussing theoretical ideas with regard to cryptocurrencies, not about short-term Bitcoin development | http://bitcoin.ninja/ | This channel is logged. | For logs and more information, visit http://bitcoin.ninja
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<gammastorm>
my next sat solver is out.... wanna see it ?
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<Chris_Stewart_5>
gammastorm: What are you using a sat solver for in Bitcoin?
<gammastorm>
Chris_Stewart_5, a good sat solver makes bitcoins obsolete, as far as I understand it
<gammastorm>
Chris_Stewart_5, are bitcoins prime numbers ?
<Chris_Stewart_5>
gammastorm: No, bitcoin just uses elliptic curve crypto
<gammastorm>
Chris_Stewart_5, then a good sat solver can crack this encryption
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<murch>
gammastorm: You got me curious. Why would that be the case?
<gammastorm>
normally for encryption, you have a function computing an output from an input, where when you have the output only, you will never know the input
<gammastorm>
murch, right ?
<murch>
Yes
<gammastorm>
murch, but SAT solvers CAN compute the input from the outpu give the encryption algorithm as known
<gammastorm>
murch, but SAT solvers CAN compute the input from the output, given the encryption algorithm as known
<murch>
gammastorm: That may be so, but is it more efficient than just bruteforcing?
<gammastorm>
muchyeah it is
<murch>
Why?
<gammastorm>
murch, are you a low level coder and good with theory ?
<gammastorm>
murch, SAT Solvers do not bruteforce, they compute
<nsh>
we probably don't need to hear about it until you factor a 1024 bit modulus with your SAT solver, gammastorm :)
<nsh>
you can assume at that point someone will be interested
<murch>
gammastorm: I think you have a wrong understanding of the properties of the cryptographic function in use.
<gammastorm>
murch, maybe yes
<murch>
A SAT solver is a program that checks whether a large number of predicates can be satisfied at the same time.
<gammastorm>
murch, yes, and solve eliptic functions can be transformed into this problem
<murch>
I don't think I am well versed enough in elliptic curve cryptography to completely allay that but I'd expect that partial solutions don't give you any benefit whatsoever, so I'd be very surprised if you could use a SAT solver to extract the private key from a public key. – If I understand correctly that this is what you're trying to do.
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<Chris_Stewart_5>
I don't know much about SAT solvers, but don't they essentially prove that a there exists a key k s.t. public key p was derived from k?
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<Chris_Stewart_5>
or that they prove there exists a contradiction to your assumptions?
<nsh>
you can convert a[n ECC] discrete logarithm problem into conjunctive normal form and then solve it by constraint satisfaction
<nsh>
for 120 bits of security, it's about 10 * 120^2 disjuncts
<nsh>
which is hard work
<murch>
Does that also apply to ECDSA?
<nsh>
i would assume so, but i don't know how it would affect the complexity of the CNF representation
<nsh>
not much discussion of reductions of DLP to other problem varieties that i can find. would have expected more
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<murch>
It does seem to depend on ciphers though, and I'm not versed enough to say whether it translates to extracting one key from the other or from a signature
<murch>
I might be dense, but I don't get why phrasing the key relation as a set of predicate would reduce the workload to evaluate all the predicates.
<nsh>
it probably doesn't. but SAT solvers only solve SAT problems...
<murch>
well, it's been shown that you can translate the 21 known NP hard problems into one another, so you'd probably be able to apply any of the algorithms to all the problems. I'm just not sure that it provides a significant complexity reduction in this case.
<murch>
fluffypony: that was an April fool's day hoax.
<fluffypony>
awwww
<fluffypony>
pity
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<nsh>
(there is a relation between integral points on elliptic curves and sphere packing, but it's unlikely to give such magical delights)
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<helo>
i'm here for the magical delights
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<murch>
I'd settle for some Turkish delights
<nsh>
that's how the queen of narnia gets you...
<murch>
nsh: I think I may be out of her typical prey pattern due to my age. :p
* nsh
smiles
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<BTCDoubler>
[OPEN] BTC doubler service. Send me your BTC and get TWICE back. PM me to begin. 100% vouched and legit. Guaranteed.
<fluffypony>
BTCDoubler: go away
<BTCDoubler>
eat a dick
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<BTCDoubler>
[OPEN] BTC doubler service. Send me your BTC and get TWICE back. PM me to begin. 100% vouched and legit. Guaranteed.
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<fluffypony>
ah, I see self-correcting is not in BTCDoubler's nature.
<BTCDoubler>
[OPEN] BTC doubler service. Send me your BTC and get TWICE back. PM me to begin. 100% vouched and legit. Guaranteed..
<BTCDoubler>
[OPEN] BTC doubler service. Send me your BTC and get TWICE back. PM me to begin. 100% vouched and legit. Guaranteed...
<fluffypony>
midnightmagic ^^
<qpm>
tx:<Jeremy_Rand> someone please kickban this idiot
<BTCDoubler>
[OPEN] BTC doubler service. Send me your BTC and get TWICE back. PM me to begin. 100% vouched and legit. Guaranteed....
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<midnightmagic>
yep sorry
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<jpans>
[OPEN] BTC doubler service. Send me your BTC and get TWICE back. PM me to begin. 100% vouched and legit. Guaranteed.
<jpans>
[OPEN] BTC doubler service. Send me your BTC and get TWICE back. PM me to begin. 100% vouched and legit. Guaranteed..
<qpm>
tx:<Jeremy_Rand> I see our scammer has more than one IRC account
<jpans>
[OPEN] BTC doubler service. Send me your BTC and get TWICE back. PM me to begin. 100% vouched and legit. Guaranteed...
<jpans>
[OPEN] BTC doubler service. Send me your BTC and get TWICE back. PM me to begin. 100% vouched and legit. Guaranteed....
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