sipa changed the topic of #bitcoin-wizards to: This channel is for discussing theoretical ideas with regard to cryptocurrencies, not about short-term Bitcoin development | http://bitcoin.ninja/ | This channel is logged. | For logs and more information, visit http://bitcoin.ninja
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<jcorgan>
nice work. it goes to show that cryptographic expertise does not always coincide with software engineering expertise.
<jcorgan>
...and a bit humbling to realize that i could have neither invented the original algorithm nor discovered the flaws in their implementation.
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<waxwing>
as i'm reading it i can feel their pain :) "Having an academic paper at the basis of an implementation adds a layer of difficulty ..." "The notations are swapped in the code ...""
<waxwing>
still, i'm sure they're doing fine
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<waxwing>
the H = hash(G) * G thing is a bit of a lol ... but it's just some test code i guess
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<musalbas>
oh please.
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<musalbas>
anyway, paper aside, the idea of using vector commitments to commit to state is interesting
<musalbas>
nsh, if trusted setup could indeed be avoided, it would be even better than using rsa accumulators to commit to state, which is the new hot thing lately.
<musalbas>
(i mean not that rsa accumulators are new; just that they're back in fashion apparently)
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<sarang>
I wrote that prototyping code. The generator construction was never the one used in production anyway
<sarang>
We never went back and updated it to what was actually used; we should have made that more clear
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<nsh>
musalbas, whether it can be done bulletproofs-style depends on the algebraic properties required
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<jcorgan>
weren't RSA accumulators used in the original zerocoin? memory is fuzzy
<nsh>
anyway, there are still dubious assumptions in that separation proof
<nsh>
regarding classical computation
<nsh>
which will not be meaningfully examined until people start to appreciate multivalued logics
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<nsh>
(not fuzzy logic, actually equivalence of NchoosefromM logical valences not interpreted in terms of binary truth/falsity)
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<nsh>
the other unquestioned assumption is that 'steps' of computation is a well-founded concept even in classical computing
<nsh>
(spoiler: it's not)
<nsh>
(and you can actually prove separation results in classical computation by kinda....smushing together intermediate computational states for a very restricted class of problems [as yet])
<nsh>
.wik holographic algorithms
<yoleaux>
"In computer science, a holographic algorithm is an algorithm that uses a holographic reduction. A holographic reduction is a constant-time reduction that maps solution fragments many-to-many such that the sum of the solution fragments remains unchanged." — https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holographic_algorithms
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<sarang>
jcorgan: I seem to remember Zerocoin did originally use an RSA accumulator
<sipa>
i believe so too
<sarang>
Ah yes, it did... I remember because PIVX chose RSA-2048 as the modulus
<sarang>
and so avoid doing another trusted setup process
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<nsh>
(meant to say above schpiel in ##crypto. sorry i'm not doing well with typing in the right channel lately)
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