sipa changed the topic of #bitcoin-wizards to: This channel is for discussing theoretical ideas with regard to cryptocurrencies, not about short-term Bitcoin development | http://bitcoin.ninja/ | This channel is logged. | For logs and more information, visit http://bitcoin.ninja
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<nsh> claims to be timelock encryption of some kind: https://www.algomachines.com/tutorial
<nsh> 'If you have answered the questions correctly and if the current Bitcoin Network time is within the specified range, then the unencrypted data file is revealed to you in Windows Explorer.'
<nsh> may be silly, may be less silly; hard to tell at a glance
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<cjd> well, looks like he got his 80$ taken
<nsh> aye seems so, didn't elaborate on it in the thread yet
<cjd> nice comment
<cjd> > I agree, however, if I open the source, someone can create a version of the tool which will obviate the time lock, not the password or answer protection, but yes the time lock.
<cjd> from the author
<nsh> ah
<cjd> #lol
<nsh> well, trying it to be commended
<nsh> the things i considered possible before i knew their real difficulty would make me blush today
<nsh> i still convince myself factoring is in NP every other week or so :)
<nsh> i mean in P
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<cjd> someone told me about some folks who managed to get a speedup on factoring large numbers of RSA keys at the same time
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<cjd> I think this must be fairly old but I just hadn't heard of it
<nsh> was an article doing the rounds yest or few days ago
<yoleaux> The (Almost) Secret Algorithm Researchers Used to Break Thousands of RSA Keys – Algorithm Soup
<cjd> https://algorithmsoup.wordpress.com/2019/01/15/breaking-an-unbreakable-code-part-1-the-hack/ author of this blog post claims to have reversed something which the researchers were trying to keep a bit hidden
<cjd> yeah, that
<nsh> .wik Sch%C3%B6nhage%E2%80%93Strassen_algorithm
<yoleaux> "The Schönhage–Strassen algorithm is an asymptotically fast multiplication algorithm for large integers. It was developed by Arnold Schönhage and Volker Strassen in 1971." — https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sch%C3%B6nhage%E2%80%93Strassen_algorithm
<nsh> there are still improvements to be found i'd imagine
<nsh> but it was a shared factor attack on large batch of badly prime-generated keys
<nsh> rather than anything more groundbreaking
<nsh> even so, the speed of the algorithm is impressive
<cjd> oh ok, when your primes aren't primes
<nsh> rather when you generated the same one as someone else did
<cjd> so safe to believe that the NSA totally knows this one
<nsh> and the combination of moduli can be GCD'd in batch to factor
* nsh nods
<cjd> oh ok, so they're reusing prime filtration effort made by the people who did the original key generation
<cjd> that's kind of clever
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<nsh> don't quite follow that way of putting it but probably
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<cjd> my thinking: prime collisions happen because not all random numbers are ok as private keys, so people who are generating private keys are participating in the search for big primes... and you can harness their work by using their collisions
<nsh> ah okay
<nsh> well i think in this case it was more than not-especially-great prime filtration algorithms were resulting in primes being selected from not very uniform distributions
<nsh> and thus increased likelihood of shared factors across moduli
<cjd> oh indeed, that's even better
<cjd> that shaves a lot of bits off the key
* nsh nods
<cjd> is there an impl of curve25519 which uses bignums and is meant to be easily read ?
<cjd> I really appreciate the pure python ed25519 for readability
<nsh> well i found this yesterday: http://www.loper-os.org/?p=1913
<nsh> i really approve of the attitude/philosophy/ethos
<nsh> "FFA, or the Finite Field Arithmetic library, differs from the typical Open Sores abomination, in that — rather than trusting the author blindly with their lives — prospective users are expected to read and fully understand every single line. In exactly the same manner that you would understand and pack your own parachute."
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<cjd> > The “bignum” arithmetic libraries currently in common use were, near as I can tell, all and without exception written by NSA assets and their various “useful idiots”.
<cjd> starting off well :D
* cjd puts on alex jones themesong and reads on...
* nsh smiles
<nsh> i read it as "may as well have been, given the unnecessary complexity and encouragement to just trust an opaque development process"
<gmaxwell> 01:14:32 < cjd> I really appreciate the pure python ed25519 for readability
<cjd> well, not precisely what I'm looking for, I'm actually interested in seeing the implementation as pseudocode and then understanding what that pseudocode is actually doing, line by line
<gmaxwell> you mean the totally insecure one?
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<cjd> other than obvious timing attacks, is that one broken ?
<gmaxwell> oh good, googling for ed25519 py no longer brings up https://github.com/vbuterin/ed25519/blob/master/ed25519.py as the first hit.
<gmaxwell> (that one leaks your private key with any two signatures)
<gmaxwell> it used to be linked all over the internet too, efforts to get people to delink may have paid off...
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<cjd> hmm, did vitalik not check that the result of a signature is binary equal to the result coming from someone else's impl ?
<gmaxwell> It also makes for a great example when people try to argue that ed25519 is inherently timing attack immune. (that code uses a naieve double and add that leaks the key in timing)
<gmaxwell> lol
<cjd> ahh ok, so it's not leaking in the result, it's in timing
<gmaxwell> no!
<gmaxwell> see the word 'also'?
<cjd> ouch
<gmaxwell> it sets the nonce to a hash of the private key.
<cjd> oh, that's unfortunate
<cjd> so do you know of any similar thing for curve25519 ?
<cjd> secure or otherwise, if it's horribly insecure that's fine as long as I know where the problem is when I'm reading it
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<gmaxwell> not off the top of my head
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<cjd> ok, thanks
<gmaxwell> but you really shouldn't be reimplementing these things... thats how the broken stuff happens, if at least you can avoid it
<cjd> The reason I wanted to read the naive implementation is to know what primitives are used... for example if I put a curve25519 scalarmult in the PoW I'm working on, will that encourage development of fast GPU code that can be reused for ed25519 or is it not reusable...
<gmaxwell> I'm dubious it will do that.
<gmaxwell> a good pow must be non-approximatable.
<gmaxwell> I expect that it would encourage fast implementations of approximately that function
<cjd> ahh so you mean "right for 99% of all inputs"
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<gmaxwell> right, or more or less... depends on the speedup
<cjd> potential to result in non-reusable miner code indeed, however I still feel like it's something that ought to be tried
<cjd> clearly one wants to hash the result
<cjd> I'm also of the opinion that verification time of up to 10ms on a "typical fast computer" is ok, so I have more budget to chain different operations
<gmaxwell> have you read the equihash paper?
<cjd> I did, I saw in a chat log that you recommended it, very good synthesys of the problem indeed
<gmaxwell> they devote considerable length to discussing what makes a good POW. (they went ahead and made a kind of crappy one, but not because their understanding of the problem space was bad)
<gmaxwell> Okay.
<cjd> I'll probably read over it once again after everything of mine is solidified in order to be sure of how much of the rules I'm flaunting
<gmaxwell> cjd: sipa has a construction for a secure uniform cryptographic hash constructed out of EC operations-- it's fast to compute in a ZKP. I'm sure he won't be interested in your POW lark, but he might be convinced to share a candidate construction with you. that would might be better than "I stick an ECC operation in here somehow"
<cjd> thanks for the suggestion
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<cy_> cycycycy
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