sipa changed the topic of #bitcoin-wizards to: This channel is for discussing theoretical ideas with regard to cryptocurrencies, not about short-term Bitcoin development | http://bitcoin.ninja/ | This channel is logged. | For logs and more information, visit http://bitcoin.ninja
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<tromp>
what would be the actual improvement for 64-bit rangeproofs, perhaps the most widely used application of BPs ?
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<andytoshi>
64-bit BP rangeproofs vs what? the rangeproofs that are currently deployed in elements/liquid?
<tromp>
current BP vs that 944 paper on 64-bit rangeproof
<tromp>
such as in liquid
<andytoshi>
my expectation, though i haven't read the paper, is that BPs will still win for 64-bit rangeproofs
<andytoshi>
because the rangeproofs are not just R1CS, there are some other hacks to drop extra data (which is why the general ZKPs are bigger than the rangeproofs even if you're just proving the rangeproof circuit)
<andytoshi>
and i don't see any way that non-R1CS constraints could give you smaller rangeproof circuits (though maybe i'm just not creative enough)
<tromp>
that would explain why the paper doesn't mention application to rangeproofs...
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<sarang>
Table 3 seems to suggest verification improvement for aggregate range proofs (skimmed to find it; still reading through)
<sarang>
(page 13)
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<andytoshi>
oh lol they have a space in "range proof"
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<digi_james>
instagibbs: Would this pay-to-contract scheme work? P + H(P|c1)G + H(P|c2)G for multiple commitments c1, c2 ... or are nested hash expressions necessary, such as H((P+H(P|c1))|c2)
<sipa>
digi_james: Wagner's attack will kill you
<digi_james>
lol
<sipa>
you need to nest it
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<digi_james>
Thanks a lot.
<sipa>
digi_james: actually, it works, but only if you reveal all c1s when opening the commitment
<sipa>
which kinda defeats the purpose
<sipa>
all c's
<sipa>
oh, no, it doesn't work at all; if you know the private key to P, you can construct ci's efficiently such that the result matches any given point that you have the DL for
<digi_james>
Hm, even if all ci's are nested in H(...|ci) ?
<sipa>
if you nest it it works
<sipa>
that's definitely fine, as it's just p2c recursively
<digi_james>
ok, if I don't, I have secret + H(P|c1) + H(P|c2) ... how can that match a given scalar target?
<digi_james>
the scalar which is the secret to the "given point that you have the DL for"
<sipa>
wagner's algorithm :)
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<digi_james>
Right, regardless how many commitments are already revealed. I see what you meant before.
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<instagibbs>
yeah it doesn't work at all
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