#bitcoin-wizards on 2020-06-06 — irc logs at freenode.irclog.whitequark.org

2015-10-30 00:53 sipa changed the topic of #bitcoin-wizards to: This channel is for discussing theoretical ideas with regard to cryptocurrencies, not about short-term Bitcoin development | http://bitcoin.ninja/ | This channel is logged. | For logs and more information, visit http://bitcoin.ninja

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15:40 <harding> Does anyone have references to earlier descriptions of the fee overpayment attack on segwit transactions (e.g. what Trezor recently posted about). I found what appears to be a mention of it in a 2018 Bitcoin-Dev thread by jl2012[1], but I recall a more detailed conversation about it somewhere (e.g. IRC) and I'd like to link to that if possible. [1] https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/2018-August/016345.html

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15:53 <sipa> harding: https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/2017-August/014843.html

15:58 <harding> sipa: hmm, I don't think that's quite the same thing, although it had occurred to me that it's related (we wrote about that attack in Optech just a few wekes ago). In instagibbs's attack, it's a coinjoin (or LN or whatever) counterparty that's lying to the hardware wallet about what inputs the wallet owns, and the counterparty is able to steal the overpayment for itself. In the Trezor-described attack (which I'm pretty sure I

15:58 <harding> heard about from a public source first), there's no counterparty and the overpayment is in the form of transaction fees; i.e. the attack is probably easier to execute (no counterparty required) but perhaps harder to profit from (you need a cooperating miner to profit, though you can grief for free).

16:02 <sipa> harding: second paragraph discusses the fee attack

16:03 <sipa> >This greatly speeds

16:03 <sipa> up signing since potentially multiple MBs of transactions are no longer

16:03 <sipa> passed into the device, but comes with a cost: An attacker can claim

16:03 <sipa> certain inputs' value is much lower than it actually is.

16:08 <harding> Ok, after re-reading five times, I think you're right. Sorry for doubting you, and thanks!

16:08 <sipa> np!

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