andytoshi changed the topic of #bitcoin-wizards to: This channel is for discussing theoretical ideas with regard to cryptocurrencies, not about short-term Bitcoin development | This channel is logged. | For logs and more information, visit https://bitcoin.ninja
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<waxwing>
is the above kind of construction interesting principally because it can be arranged after the event (i.e. after utxo A already was created)? i guess otherwise, in some cooperation, you could use multisig things
<waxwing>
or, it's probably that i didn't understand the motivating scenario - where you are somehow arranging this delegation by scanning the chain and finding this B. where does that use case arise?
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<darosior>
Was there previous discussion on comiting in a signature to the vin without using SIGHASH_SINGLE ?
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<jeremyrubin>
darosior: what do you mean?
<jeremyrubin>
sighash_none?
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<jeremyrubin>
waxwing: it's useful because you can post-hoc delegate
<jeremyrubin>
w.r.t needing a specific UTXO, it's a limitation of this technique compared to graftroot
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<jeremyrubin>
An contrived example is let's say that I know that UTXO B is a LN channel. I can delegate A to B, which means that A can only be claimed by B if B cooperatively closes
<jeremyrubin>
roasbeef: ^
<jeremyrubin>
maybe that's useful for you somehow
<jeremyrubin>
But B doesn't need to exist beforehand
<jeremyrubin>
you could imagine Server A contacts Server B and says "give me some TXID:vout corresponding to script S you want to use as the delegate key"
<jeremyrubin>
B doesn't have to exist a-priori
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<jeremyrubin>
roasbeef: here's a use case for delegating like that: I lose access to my keys but I can recover them in a year. I can attach a delegated bounty that pays B contingent on closing the channel coorperatively at some point in the future.
<jeremyrubin>
(in terms of not revoking early, you would have to create the delegation reward as a multisig)
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<darosior>
jeremyrubin: sorry i could have given more context. For Revault we enable fee-bumping by sharing ANYONECANPAY signatures for the input of the 'Cancel' transaction. I was thinking of preventing the reuse of a Cancel txin (vin 0) signed with ANYONECANPAY as the second input of another Cancel transaction (which is possible if the txout is the same and
<darosior>
is a massive DOS as it would burn the utxo to fees). A way to do this would be to require an additional signature with SINGLE | ACP so it cannot be reused in another tx. Another way would be to append an OP_RETURN output to the Cancel tx to commit to the outpoint ... But i'm trying to find some other workarounds
<darosior>
So i was looking for a way to commit to vin 0 in the signature, so the txins can not be appended to other transactions
<darosior>
Oh yes NONE works too for this purpose (instead of SINGLE | ACP)
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<darosior>
Actually not if you need to share it prior to attaching fee-bumping input..
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<DevelopmentFrenz>
hello
<DevelopmentFrenz>
Im looking for people who want to help me with an idea , a vision, which could be heavily disruptive... to multiple establishments in the economy. @_@.
<DevelopmentFrenz>
I lack the skills neccesarry but I have some coding experience and I'm willing to learn, I would take the role of project director but I would listen to those more experienced and ther'es no payment for this I am looking for individuals who want to do it for the passion.
<DevelopmentFrenz>
the theory is a completely decentralized file system where files are uploaded either as whole files, or uploaded in steps as byte-blobs on a blockchain.
<DevelopmentFrenz>
Miners would have two responsibilities: A) Enforce the file blobchain, and B ) gain coin rewards for proccessing file blob requests. The starting maximum filesize would be 30 Megabytes, and possible to increase with hard forks somehow.
<DevelopmentFrenz>
Mining would reward about 10 to 100 coins, and difficulty wouldn't increase for several years.
<DevelopmentFrenz>
Uploading a full sized 30 MB file would initially only cost 0.004 coins.
<DevelopmentFrenz>
There would be no maximum amount of rewards, similiar to dogecoin.
<DevelopmentFrenz>
once work begins on this, the next goal would be to get listed on an exchange.
<DevelopmentFrenz>
It would be possible to explore uploaded files by filename or by hash, on the chain, with also a fast hash search algo. So if you know the hash of the file you uploaded, you could easily find the download request link.
<DevelopmentFrenz>
Users would pay a small coin fee per download.
<DevelopmentFrenz>
It's a whole de-centralized File Server Schema with supporting CryptoCoin
<DevelopmentFrenz>
The best part is that once it explodes, it would be completely immune to DMCA takedowns of any kind
<DevelopmentFrenz>
Which is the Primary purpose of a file-storage decentralized blockchain
<DevelopmentFrenz>
I understand how difficult putting something like this together would be which is why I'm looking for people to help.
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<jeremyrubin>
look at sia / filecoin / storj / others and maybe pester david vorrick
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<DevelopmentFrenz>
seems inactive seems I got booted
<jeremyrubin>
i responded to you
<jeremyrubin>
you connection dropped
<jeremyrubin>
read the logs
<DevelopmentFrenz>
how do I read the logs?
<jeremyrubin>
type "/topic" into your irc client
<DevelopmentFrenz>
ty
<DevelopmentFrenz>
it didn't work I'm using webchat.freenode.net
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<rubikputer>
jeremyrubin: is Sapio able to conceptualize something like a zk-rollup if Bitcoin had primitives to verify snarks?
<rubikputer>
I've been thinking about what it might take to make that work on-and-off a bit lately
<jeremyrubin>
correct.
<rubikputer>
I think it wouldn't be far off from the Liquid example
<jeremyrubin>
you can use a Tree Payment contract to merkelize the set of payouts
<jeremyrubin>
and you could have a contract that was <H> CTV or ProveTransition(H, H')
<jeremyrubin>
the only issue with ZK rollups is data availbility afaiu
<jeremyrubin>
you need some sort of operator set to remember what lies undeneath H
<rubikputer>
also I think for most snark systems the verification keys are still too large to want to put on chain every time you need to verify a proof
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<jeremyrubin>
most likely how you would do it today is have a "blind federation" -- e.g. nodes that veirfy snarks and sign things
<jeremyrubin>
using taproot schnorr you could have a blind federation of like 100 servers requiring 90%
<jeremyrubin>
and then you would have a separate system for proving
<rubikputer>
does that work well if we want to have users be able to challenge a state update in the event the federation turns malicious?
<rubikputer>
the only ways I worked it out did leave open an opportunity for fee griefing
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