08:22 <tromp> waxwing: there is https://forum.grin.mw/t/mimblewimble-coinswap-proposal (not applicable to bitcoin though)

11:39 <real_or_random> waxwing: yes, unfortunately. expect maybe for https://github.com/ElementsProject/dicemix/blob/master/doc/protocol.md which is a draft that describes a variant (one round more but much simpler)

11:41 <real_or_random> but I wrote this in 2018 when I planned to work on coinshuffle

11:42 <real_or_random> so there's nothing wrong with this and I had a few more optimizations in mind but all of this slipped out of my focus with the work on signatures

11:46 <real_or_random> waxwing: given that a few years passed, what do you think how it compares to other mixing techniques that have been improved over time?

11:49 <real_or_random> I didn't really follow the privacy space closely in the past years, so I don't know how JoinMarket, other CoinJoin implementations and coinswap improved over time? Also, has anyone deployed TumbleBit or something similar on Bitcoin?

11:49 <waxwing> real_or_random, i really don't know. i'm thinking about researching it as probably the most likely replacement for our existing coordination mechanism in JM, but that is totally "blue-sky" thinking right now.

11:50 <waxwing> have you looked at Wabisabi at all? it's pretty interesting.

11:50 <real_or_random> Ah yes, I did a review of their writeup

11:51 <waxwing> tumblebit had an implementation but i think it never got traction. basically it's wasabi, samourai and JM in terms of coinjoin.

11:51 <real_or_random> By the way, I wasn't even aware that Decred implemented dicemix. Interesting, they took the "light" variant even though it says "This document is a working draft." which for crypto means "don't use it". But okay, that's how it works and I'm not responsible. ^^

11:52 <waxwing> so chaumian server-based and then samourai i'm not sure of all the details but they focus on all equal-in equal-out models afaik (it's also server based)

11:52 <waxwing> right please do read it, if i get more concretely interested i will want to know your review of that :)

11:53 <waxwing> i emphasize the word 'please' since i realize you may not have time and are busy with other stuff :)

11:54 <real_or_random> I think if you trust Tor anyway, then a Chaumian thing is much simpler than Dicemix and gives you same in the end.

11:57 <real_or_random> I think CoinShuffle++ really shines when have CT because the two really combine naturally