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<Baikonur>
yeah i've seen that
<mnemoc>
^^
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<Baikonur>
danish and norwegian are basically the same language, but the danish way of speaking it is a lot different
<mnemoc>
i see
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<popolon>
Baikonur, hungarian is just like japonese, korean, mongol, kazakh or turkish or finnish
<popolon>
ouralo-altaic language
<popolon>
s/japonese/japanese/
<popolon>
bask and georgian are more special languages
<popolon>
oh, basque
<popolon>
don't know when to change que to k or keep que :/
<Baikonur>
finnish and hungarian are related grammatically
<Baikonur>
but the lexicon isn't really related at all
<mnemoc>
the basque managed to remain ignored by the romans and arabs....
<Baikonur>
maybe they share the common roots
<Baikonur>
but the present form is very dissimilar
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<popolon>
probably because finnish has influence from german and north slavic, and hungarian mostly by slavic
<popolon>
japanese words are not the same than finnish one too
<popolon>
:)
<popolon>
nor turkish
<buZz>
they use the same word for wasabi
<Baikonur>
uralo-altaic common root doesn't seem to be a favored theory anymore
<popolon>
in french too, but most pronounce it wazabi instead
<popolon>
or call it raidford
<popolon>
probably influence of polish culture ?
<popolon>
raiford, not raidford
<buZz>
Raiford is a town in Union County, Florida, United States.
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<Baikonur>
hmm, the wikipedia page for Ural-Altaic languages mentions a "Finnish linguist and explorer Matthias Castrén"
<lunra>
'wasabi' may be the only loanword that English speakers get (mostly) right. The stress is often wrong... but 'teriyaki' is the wrong 'r', 'shiitake' apparently gets the 'e' turned into an 'i', and 'karaoke' I don't even want to talk about
<Baikonur>
I just learned last week that I'm related to him
<Baikonur>
for us Finns, pronouncing japanese isn't very difficult
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<lunra>
Japanese and Finnish are both audiovisually isomorphic languages.
<popolon>
Baikonur, for french too
<popolon>
just we don't hear some difference that they hear :)
<popolon>
but easily understanble
<lunra>
(well kind of, kanji don't represent sounds, but kana do)
<popolon>
that's probably why for, lot of french learn japanese ?
<popolon>
lunra, some kanji represent sounds
<popolon>
ideophonograms
<lunra>
I always thought French learned Japanese because Japanese people seem to love the French...
<popolon>
but that's easier to understand if you speak chinese
<popolon>
lunra, perhaps too
<popolon>
and french like japanese too
<popolon>
(or love)
<lunra>
popolon: well, yes, but they're not like the kana
<Baikonur>
in my experience, the french have a lot of difficulties pronouncing anything that isn't french
<popolon>
and generally hate chinese
<popolon>
but don't really know the difference and common point between the too cultlures
<lunra>
IME the Japanese have a lot of difficulties pronouncing anything that isn't Japanese, hehe. Learn a limited set of phonemes all your life and it will be very difficult to learn new ones.
<Baikonur>
i still have nightmares of how one french lecturer pronounces the word 'circuit'
<lunra>
For the English speakers (who aren't scottish?), try to pronounce a voiceless velar fricative the first time ;)
<popolon>
lunra, the french r is really hard to learn for them
<mnemoc>
spoken fr_FR is a nightmare on itself
<lunra>
popolon: The r/l distinction in English is, also
<popolon>
mnemoc, well the german r too
<popolon>
:D
<buZz>
spoken fr_FR is fine, but the speed at which french ppl think non-french ppl understand them is just insane
<mnemoc>
at least germans pronounce the words as they are written...
<mnemoc>
not "compressing" them
<lunra>
The French don't speak half their letters! I wonder how many trees could be saved...
<buZz>
try talking to french irc ppl
<popolon>
lunra, agree
<popolon>
that's an internal war for long time
<buZz>
they abbreviate sooooo much it doesnt even look like french
<lunra>
BTW guys, keep up the good work on ARM, imagine the power savings... OTOH reducing demand for oil without a full replacement could only drive costs up and increase their power...
<buZz>
it was -really- good
<lunra>
(and indeed coal is used more than oil for electricity)
<popolon>
lunra, electricity is less than 10% of whole energy
<buZz>
lunra: i feel using PLA instead of ABS would have a lot more effect
<lunra>
Sorry, I must admit I made a really naive comment :(
<popolon>
but still good :)
<lunra>
popolon, TIL, that's interesting
<lunra>
buZz: I'll read more into the different plastics, that's interesting too!
<popolon>
saving electric energy don't mean use more oil too
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<lunra>
PLA is very cool! Can be made from plant starches that haven't been underground for millions of years! :D
<mnemoc>
tla = tom lord arch (aka gnu arch) to me....
<lunra>
Yes, it's self-descriptive when 'TLA' itself is ambiguous ;)
<mnemoc>
:p
<mnemoc>
tla died when canonical forked it to create bazar
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<mnemoc>
pretty long ago
<mnemoc>
and oddly tom himself disappeared from the net
<lunra>
canonical sure like to screw everything up, huh?
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* mnemoc
runs ubuntu as desktop, so I can't really bash them :p
<lunra>
Ubuntu Server is nice... but every specific software project that canonical gets involved in seems to go nowhere, and if progress was being made, it only gets worse and never better.
<lunra>
yeah, I don't mean to bash people's desktop choice
<lunra>
just this company who seem to make a lot of bad decisions, especially with regards to marketing...
* mnemoc
hates the whole concept of systemd
<lunra>
"hey guys, let's make a massive ad telling people to use software that doesn't even exist yet!"
<mnemoc>
:D
<mnemoc>
that sounds like any american company :p
<lunra>
systemd wasn't canonical was it? I though Upstart was theirs
<lunra>
yeep
<popolon>
bazar is not totally dead, still few people use it :)
<lunra>
I was referring to Ubuntu for Android
<popolon>
I use ubuntu for several years now
<popolon>
but I start to really think to change distro
<lunra>
I wonder how much money they wasted on that ad, especially since it looks like ubuntu for android isn't going to end up happening at all.
<mnemoc>
lunra: I enjoy bashing redhat :p
<popolon>
there is barely no bug correction, everything depend on debian
<popolon>
I lost lot of time reporting bugs :(
<lunra>
I'm an Arch user, but one of my VPSes is Ubuntu Server (another is Debian, my cubieboard runs Arch on ARM (ALARM))
<popolon>
have rude answer by people that don't understand with it the source of the problem at all
<popolon>
I use some ubuntu server too
<popolon>
and noticed some ubuntu specific bugs
<lunra>
Mm, they seem to ship with sendmail enabled as well, IIRC
<lunra>
last time I did an install from CD was a long time ago though.
<lunra>
(I also doubt that bit about jumpstarting a car with a phone battery. I remember someone telling me that diesel engines take over 100A (at ~12V I guess?)) to turn over... don't know about petrol)
<lunra>
and the word choice with 'BOOM' probably wasn't great either.
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<kriegerod>
lunra: could you tell me about jumpstarting car with phone battery? where has the rumor came from?
<lunra>
It's in the youtube video I linked advertising the nonexistant (groan) Ubuntu for Android
<lunra>
As for the bit about diesel engines requiring 100A to use the starter motor, I don't know where I heard that.
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<FR^2>
Yay, motorola atrix laptop dock found its way into my hands :)
<FR^2>
Now I need some adapters.
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<popolon>
lunra, you can easily swith to qmail
<popolon>
I ask myself if this isn't the default, as qmail has sendmail command too
<popolon>
and I everytime install it by default
<lunra>
yeah, just people in 'enterprise' (ugh) places tend not to... do any actual sysadmin work as soon as Apache works >_>
<lunra>
sendmail may be way more secure today than it was, but still...
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<popolon>
on my last 13.10 x86 didn't installed qmail, and there is no sendmail
<popolon>
x86 => amd64, but the same
<popolon>
I need to look on cubieboard2 version
<popolon>
the problem on default *ubuntu is more : mlocate+*locate
<popolon>
there is at least two
<popolon>
they slowdown a lot computer every day by scanning the whole fs
<popolon>
checked on a fresh install of lubuntu 13.10, no sendmail
<popolon>
(from this morning, only adde openjdk to manage some IPMI
<lunra>
alright, sorry. I was wrong again :(.
<popolon>
perhaps that was the case in 13.04 or older
<lunra>
(I do my best not to make inaccurate comments about products/etc because it's bad for anyone making decisions about that product)
<popolon>
ubuntu (withou l/k/x/..) doesn't have synaptic in desktop mode but instaed a really annoying ubuntu software center
<popolon>
what is the main advantage of arch on other distro, I never tried, but see lot of people using it here
<popolon>
else linuxmint seems to be a better flavored version of ubuntu than ubuntu itself, it's the most used (or at least downloaded) linux distro today (after android probably)
<lunra>
Arch is bleeding-edge, Arch is rolling-release, Arch's package manager (pacman) doesn't take 10 minutes to sort its DB out, Arch fucks itself up all the time so you always have something to do, Arch isn't afraid to change paradigms, Arch doesn't obfuscate realities - if there's an abstraction which doesn't make things easier, it is disliked.
<lunra>
The nice thing about Debian/Ubuntu is that they don't explode in your face when you aren't paying enough attention to packages
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<lunra>
btw, if you haven't checked out Enlightenment (which is more a set of libraries than a DE), I recommend having a look. I ought to get around to testing it with GLES (full support!)
<popolon>
didn't tried enlightenment since at least 5 or more years
<lunra>
Might be worth another look
<popolon>
but I believe that even without hw acceleration it's really fast
<popolon>
it was already really nice at this tome
<popolon>
forget why for I din't used it anymore
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<Cylta>
Hi, is there any other ready debian-bases distros, that I can use? cubian seems to have some serous trouble with apt packages loop...
<Baikonur>
well, there's debian
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<popolon>
or ubuntu
<popolon>
or probably some other .deb based ?
<jelly>
Cylta: cubian is just a custom image of Debian, if you have problems with apt they can be fixed.
<mnemoc>
debootstrap your own
<jelly>
(just don't ask for help about it in #debian ;-)
<Cylta>
yeah, at #debian they already told me that it's my personal problem =)
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<popolon>
that's better than ubuntu+1 that just laugh
<popolon>
and don't understand why use a full distro on arm
<Cylta>
I do need there a full distro..
<mnemoc>
armv7-a is just another normal platform, no reason to not want to run a general purpose full featured system on it
<mnemoc>
if you like debian, install debian. if you like fedora, install fedora. if you like....
<jelly>
Cylta: you can ask about it in here tho.
<popolon>
Cylta, I mean a general one, to use like server or desktop
<popolon>
or anything else
<mnemoc>
over the rootfs of your favorite distro add kernel, bootloader and binary blobs, and done.
<popolon>
not only for 'ubuntu touch'
<popolon>
that nearly noone is interested by :)
<Cylta>
mnemoc: debians images are for cd, so I can't find how to use them from usb stick (I can't boot it in this way)
<mnemoc>
Cylta: debootstrap
<popolon>
you need an uBoot that boot on USB
<popolon>
you can make that on µSD
<popolon>
or NAND
<Cylta>
mnemoc: okay, debootstrap is better and I've made one, but for it I steel need something to boot. like u-boot, but if I simply dd it, it does not work =)
<Cylta>
*still
<popolon>
Cylta, could you develop your problem ?
<popolon>
with dd and boot
<mnemoc>
Cylta: u-boot is board specific. then add kernel and the right script.bin
<popolon>
should not be so hard to fix
<Cylta>
popolon: i'm using u-boot from cubian (because it works) but after this way it does not boot.
<popolon>
Cylta, any arm system should be fine, juste have to replace uboot, kernel, kernel modules and firmware
<Cylta>
so, in general I'm doing the same 1mb vfat, test is ext2 and dd the first mb from cubian.
<popolon>
?
<Cylta>
*rest is ext2
<popolon>
you need : uboot + uImage in first partition
<popolon>
not only one mega
<popolon>
and modules on the system (/) partition
<popolon>
if the modules are not in /lib/modules
<popolon>
system could not work
<popolon>
you need the modules from your kernel
<popolon>
the same version I mean
<Cylta>
so, I need first mb, /boot, /lib/modules ?
<jelly>
does u-boot for sunxi support kernel+initrd like normal distros use?
<popolon>
does someone know if there is arm asm demoscene ?
<popolon>
well there was a really little on archimede one decade (or more) ago
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<popolon>
2 decades probably :)
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<Bushmills>
some processors allow push/pop of one, any or all registers in one instruction, not meaning "assembler translates instruction into a sequence of discrete push/pop instructions" but as in "opcode has a parameter byte/word which is a bitmask of which registers to push/pop". evidently that's practical only on CPUs with a limited set of registers, excluding many RISC processors. I'm specifically thinking of the motorola 6809 now, which needed
<popolon>
on 32 bits instruction, you could probably have *at least* 16 registers using bitmask
<popolon>
for a pop/push instruction
<Bushmills>
yes, but which ones. just the first 16? that'd make them somehow special
<Bushmills>
not very orthogonal.
<popolon>
searching quickly on arm pop/push instruction
<popolon>
I just seen ARMv6 can only pop/push 'low register', meaning 0->7 on 15
<popolon>
on 16
<popolon>
(0->15)
<popolon>
so you need to move upper register to lower to push them
<Bushmills>
probably because bytes can't be pushed, words can
<popolon>
?? why for
<popolon>
I don't think this is the problem
<Bushmills>
stackpointer word aligned
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<popolon>
they move the content of the register 12 to the register 5 for example
<popolon>
then push the register 5 :(
<popolon>
ARMv7 should be far faster then
<Bushmills>
pushing 8 bits would unalign stack pointer
<popolon>
but there is no relation, with the limitation of pushed/poped register
<popolon>
as you give the number of the register in instruction register bitmask part
<popolon>
I instead think the instruction was more limited
<Bushmills>
there may be, if you're required to specify "whole" register
<popolon>
or perhaps they use the 16bits instruction set ability of arm
<popolon>
but there is no relation
<popolon>
you give the name of the register, and the kind of operation (byte, word) etc...
<Cylta>
what about ubuntu? I've seen some ubuntu images for cubieboard.
<Bushmills>
assembly of AVR Mega has a similar, essentially purely syntactical, feature
<popolon>
doesn't need to change the instruction size depending on register
<popolon>
size
<Cylta>
is it possible to transform ubuntu into debian later, btw? =)
<popolon>
Cylta, yas by removing the whole system and adding debian
<popolon>
as usually
<popolon>
the package doesn't have the same version
<popolon>
sometime you can add some packages from one to other
<popolon>
but that's not a generality at all
<jelly>
Cylta: having debootstrap ready in ubuntu doesn't hurt
<jelly>
but there's no way to do it in-place
<Cylta>
popolon: okay. is there any ready ubuntu (or any other, actually) images for cubieboard?
<popolon>
and you could have huge dependencie problem
<popolon>
Cylta, linaro make arm port
<popolon>
I installed from ubuntu core + cb2 kernel
<popolon>
but my HDD is full of bad sector
<popolon>
need to remake it on µsd nand or by network :)
<popolon>
(nfs)
<popolon>
I managed to make an ubuntu 13.10 system
<popolon>
just before there was too much block errors
<popolon>
:)
<Cylta>
cubian can't see wifi dongle\accept usb tethering...
<popolon>
with lubuntu /xubuntu/gnome and mali + sunxifb acceleration
<Cylta>
will I have same problems somewhere else?
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<popolon>
perhaps you need to modprobe your wifi module
<popolon>
wifi module kernel module
<popolon>
wifi chip kernel module
<Cylta>
is there something where all this stuff is enabled? on my pc I can do it all by default.
<popolon>
Cylta, does it work on x86 debian ?
<Cylta>
popolon: yes.
<popolon>
yous should put it, list kernel modules (lsmod)
<popolon>
plug it in your cubieboard
<popolon>
and modprobe <same module name>
<popolon>
else could be a problem with user rights on wifi devices
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<Cylta>
popolon: but why is it different? I just want absolutely the same as I have on my pc =)
<popolon>
if you see some rights errors on log try to add your user to net group or something
<popolon>
because cubian is probably an experimental customisation and they forgot some elements from the full distro
<popolon>
cubieboard is only 4 month old
<popolon>
buy a new x86 portable computer that is less than 1 month old, with lot of shiny new chipsets, try it on linux, you have good chance to have drivers problem too
<popolon>
and some crash on windows
<Cylta>
dmesg, you mean?
<rm>
<Cylta> is it possible to transform ubuntu into debian later, btw? =)
<Cylta>
rm: because cubian(debian port) does not work, because debian armhf does not work with my custom uboot, and because debian arm image is for cd(!), what obviously does not work either.
<Cylta>
ohh, thanks
<rm>
why nothing works for you
<Cylta>
because I'm noob
<rm>
why custom uboot...
<Cylta>
because I've found some system without uboot.. =)
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<qwertzui11>
!ls
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<qwertzui11>
hey guys - i installed Lubuntu 13.04 successfully on my cubieboard2 - now im looking for a h264 encoder on the gpu - any tips, idea where to look?
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<qwertzui11>
ah, im working with gstreamer
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<FR^2>
damn. no micro-hdmi-femal--to--male-hdmi adapter in the local electronics store
<qwertzui11>
FR^2: h8 that too ^^
<FR^2>
*g* well, they are not that widespread ;)
<FR^2>
But I like to support the locals.
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<matthorz>
!ls
<matthorz>
Hi, which side of the cubieboard/cubiboard2 has H15 pins?
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<matthorz>
I found diagrams online but i don't know which side is which
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<matthorz>
i need vcc and ground pins for my project
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<rneese____>
waiting on my cb2 to arrive
<rneese____>
its killing me
<rneese____>
if it does the job I see buying abotu 200 of them
<rneese____>
but I need my test unit
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<FR^2>
rneese____: :D
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<Bushmills>
if one cb2 kills, how much killing will be done by 200
<Bushmills>
FR^2: to mini hdmi male good enough?
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<FR^2>
the "motorola atrix laptop dock" has a female micro HDMI connector :/
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<utente>
so strange behaviour on cubieboard!!! Set clock = 1008 and do "su -". you can became root. BUT IF clock > 1008, as soon as i give rootpassword, the system die! screen goes black, red led on cubie turn off!!
<utente>
it happen in all condition: by ssh, by debug port, by keyboard.
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