purr changed the topic of #elliottcable to: a
<alexgordon> yawn
<ELLIOTTCABLE> alexgordon: yawn.
<ELLIOTTCABLE> ugh.
<alexgordon> yawn
<ELLIOTTCABLE> /=
<alexgordon> wow I've managed to do _nothing_ today
<alexgordon> ELLIOTTCABLE: how's it going?
<ELLIOTTCABLE> 6:19 PM <alexgordon> wow I've managed to do _nothing_ today
<ELLIOTTCABLE> pretty much that
<alexgordon> wasted too much time on the internet
<jfhbrook> I've done that a few times
<jfhbrook> I've been joking recently that my goal at work is to get to the point where I'm interrupted so often I don't have to do any real work
<alexgordon> I can't seem to get into programming, not in the right frame of mind
<alexgordon> maybe I need to force myself to do some super difficult stuff, then the easy stuff will seem easy
<alexgordon> trying to write type inference algo in coffeescript... that'll do it
<jfhbrook> coffeescript? why?
Hrorekr has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
Hrorekr has joined #elliottcable
<alexgordon> jfhbrook: it is the ultimate programming language
<alexgordon> it's like a modern python
<jfhbrook> but it's just javascript with a weird coat
<alexgordon> not at all, it's javascript with the mistakes fixed
<alexgordon> no == operator for instance
<alexgordon> coffeescript > python > js
<jfhbrook> it doesn't even have all the features, and with es6 that's just gonna get worse
<alexgordon> so? python doesn't even have multiline lambdas!
<alexgordon> lol
<purr> lol
<jfhbrook> yeah and that's fucking annoying
<alexgordon> it is, but not annoying enough that I would want to use _javascript_ instead
<alexgordon> coffeescript on the other hand, is the best of both worlds
<alexgordon> none of the crazy crap in js, but with more features than python. success!
<jfhbrook> I worked with coffeescript for a good 4 or 5 months straight
<jfhbrook> at an old job
<jfhbrook> and like I just straught up don't get the appeal
<jfhbrook> if anything I just found it annoying
<jfhbrook> like it's fine that you like it
<jfhbrook> but I like javascript
<jfhbrook> I really do
<alexgordon> yeah I don't get what is annoying about it?
<jfhbrook> I don't find the changes bring anything to the table, they only take
<jfhbrook> I already said that
<jfhbrook> and on top of that I have to transpile code now
<alexgordon> you don't _have_ to transpile
<jfhbrook> node core hasn't ripped out require.paths yet?
<jfhbrook> wait no they did they totally did
<alexgordon> there is a node module that will change the requires to automatically invoke coffeescript, but personally I find it easier to just run coffee -wbc .
<jfhbrook> oh no it's not paths
<jfhbrook> it's
<jfhbrook> the extensions registration stuff
<alexgordon> I dunno, I'm on node 0.12 :P
<jfhbrook> no it's fucking still there
<jfhbrook> they were talking about ripping it out around like node 0.6
<alexgordon> anyway, I mean I'm perfectly happy compiling stuff with clang
<alexgordon> coffeescript's compilation process is a lot easier
<alexgordon> so I guess it depends what you're used to?
<jfhbrook> I`
<jfhbrook> I'm *used* to not compiling
<alexgordon> the C++ ecosystem of build systems is a complete mess, so coffeescript seems like a breath of fresh air
<alexgordon> but if you are used to python, ruby, js, I can see how it would be undesirable
<jfhbrook> don't get me wrong, tons of people compile es6 and do web builds with browserify or webpack
<jfhbrook> and compile-to-css languages, all that jazz
<jfhbrook> and hook up some kinda file watcher that automatically rebuilds on save
<jfhbrook> and they seem happy with that
<jfhbrook> but, idk, I just didn't like the experience
<alexgordon> for me, it tends to two cases: 1) this is just a single file, in which case you can use $ coffee foo.coffee to run it, no compilation step
<alexgordon> 2) it's a more complex project with multiple files, spend a minute deciding how I want to set up compilation
<jfhbrook> you also have to understand alexgordon that I'm a really big fan of appealing to the lowest common denominator
<jfhbrook> in terms of adoption
<alexgordon> I am a big fan of the opposite! :P
<jfhbrook> to a fault, honestly
<alexgordon> coffeescript is probably one of the easiest languages to learn, so if someone can't figure that out... they are in the wrong job
<alexgordon> they might be better off working in mcdonalds or something
<ja> hehe
<Hrorekr> alexgordon, I guess I should get a job at McDonalds
<alexgordon> :D
<Hrorekr> Actually my problem is that I don't understand programming that well
<alexgordon> I remember like in 2008 when there was a running joke that js programmers weren't aware of javascript's existence, and called themselves "jquery programmers"
<ja> `UPPER(period) - CASE WHEN UPPER_INC(period) THEN 0 ELSE 1 END` — why can’t PostgreSQL already do this? :E jeez
<alexgordon> how things have changed. everybody knows that js exists now!
<ja> I need one of those
<ja> “unveils human-carrying”, nice url
<alexgordon> ehang
<ja> alexgordon: I remember those jQuery programmer jokes.
<alexgordon> "HOW DO I MULTIPLY TWO NUMBERS WITH JQUERY?!?"
<ja> lol, too true
<purr> lol
<devyn> $.fn.mul = function (n) { return this * n; }
<devyn> ;)
<devyn> nah maybe it has to be like
Hrorekr has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds]
<devyn> some kind of map or something
<devyn> I haven't used jQuery in a while now
<devyn> React++
<purr> Let it be known that devyn loves React.
<brixen> ec: I forgot to mention http://erights.org, and especially his thesis http://erights.org/talks/thesis/index.html
<alexgordon> devyn: I am living it up, 2010-style with jquery and coffeescript :P
<alexgordon> I just need a better text editor :P
<pikajude> wow, devyn is talking
<pikajude> it's just like 2009
<pikajude> uh, 2012
<pikajude> i keep forgetting the 201Xs are actually when everything was happening
<pikajude> my cat got prescribed medication today
<pikajude> i have to put it directly onto her eyeball
<pikajude> guess how much she likes that
<pikajude> essentially, this is her:
gq has joined #elliottcable
gq is now known as Guest79495
Guest79495 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
gq has joined #elliottcable
|jemc| has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
<ja> alexgordon: oh dear
meowrobot_ has joined #elliottcable
<ja> hullo meowrobot_
meowrobot has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
<ja> a friend of purr?
<meowrobot_> hihi ja
<ja> ’sup? ^o^
<meowrobot_> of ec yeah
eligrey has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
eligrey has joined #elliottcable
alexgordon has quit [Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…]
<ljharb> ec: is your last name really cable btw?
Rurik has joined #elliottcable
Rurik has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds]
Rurik has joined #elliottcable
eligrey has quit [Quit: Leaving]
Rurik has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
Rurik has joined #elliottcable
Rurik has quit [Changing host]
Rurik has joined #elliottcable
Rurik has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
<ELLIOTTCABLE> ljharb: yahp
<ELLIOTTCABLE> meowrobot_: woah
<ELLIOTTCABLE> ja: whoa
<ELLIOTTCABLE> woah whoa
<ELLIOTTCABLE> meowrobot_ == purr
<ELLIOTTCABLE> that just clicked, holy fuck lol
<purr> lol
<ELLIOTTCABLE> brixen: yah very aware of erights, his is the work that introduced me to capabilities in the first place
<ELLIOTTCABLE> jfhbrook: you thought node-core had dumped the dynamic transpiration stuff? :P
gq has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
alexgordon has joined #elliottcable
<jfhbrook> ELLIOTTCABLE: well like isaac ranted about doing so on the regular the entire time he was in charge
<jfhbrook> I figured it was just gonna happen
<jfhbrook> that they were gonna privatize that shit
<ja> http://perfect.org — whoa!
<ja> nice to eet you, meowrobot_, friend of ec
<ja> plus m
<ja> ELLIOTTCABLE: you probably don’t use / hate / dislike / haven’t even really tried Swift, am I wrong?
<ELLIOTTCABLE> jfhbrook: lolllllll
<purr> lolllllll
<ELLIOTTCABLE> ja: ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ @ Swift. Cocoa devs hate it, everybody else loves it.
<ELLIOTTCABLE> I don't think, widely speaking, that it … matters? idk how to words, but like, as a PL person, I've heard absolutely zero interesting things about it.
<ELLIOTTCABLE> ja: I really lost my shit when I realized ‘meow-robot’ basically describes purr
<ELLIOTTCABLE> like omg just, died
<ja> ELLIOTTCABLE: will you for always be a PL person and not a “product person” or whatchamacallit, dear?
<ja> ELLIOTTCABLE: I haven’t seen *that* many Cocoa devs hating on Swift, but maybe I just don’t see many Cocoa devs in general…
<ja> hahahaha
<ja> excellent
<ELLIOTTCABLE> ja: yeah, developer UX is my shit
<ELLIOTTCABLE> that's just … what I care about. and languages are ground-zero for user experience: even the stuff that *isn't* programming is strongly affected by that stuff: for instance, the sorts of static and dynamic analysis and tooling available to devs is 100% restricted by the design of languages.
<ELLIOTTCABLE> Beyond that, and or particular interest to me *specifically*, is that *languages shape communities*, and 90% of programming is interacting with other programmers.
<ja> oh, I hadn’t realized you were into the tooling too
<ja> so (when) will Paws have an IDE? ಥ‿ಥ
<ja> Languages does indeed shape communities.
<ja> 90%? Really? If by “interacting with other programmers” you mean IRC and SO and reading code and docs and using APIs, then yeah, 90%, I guess. ^_^
<ja> Or, well, one-person freelancers are pretty edge-case-y, probably…
<ELLIOTTCABLE> IDE != tooling
<ELLIOTTCABLE> IDE == scam
<ELLIOTTCABLE> *more* than 90%. I intentionally under-shot.
<ELLIOTTCABLE> Reading code other programmers wrote, reading the documentation: interacting with humans, not computers.
<ELLIOTTCABLE> Writing code for any sort of sharing or distribution beyond ‘running on my own computer once to do one task’: interacting with humans, not computers.
<ja> IDE == scam‽ wat!
<ja> Right. I agree wholeheartedly.
<ja> You’re so full of truths, ELLIOTTCABLE.
<ja> How are IDEs scams though? :<
<ELLIOTTCABLE> “Buy into <all of our solutions to problems!> We have <all of the best solutions!> You will be happy in our holistic, community-oriented vegan commune of programming! You shouldn't think for yourself, or use any tooling or solutions outside of our <collection of best solutions!>
<ELLIOTTCABLE> idk ides seem super cultish and … beginner-oriented, to me. and not in a good, educational way; but in an unhealthy, block-your-development-as-a-programmer sort of way.
<meowrobot_> <ELLIOTTCABLE> ja: I really lost my shit when I realized ‘meow-robot’ basically describes purr <- lol i didn't think of that either, but it...makes sense
<purr> lol
Rurik has joined #elliottcable
Rurik has quit [Changing host]
Rurik has joined #elliottcable
<pikajude> hey all
<pikajude> how safe would you say it is to store my password hash (pbkdf2) in a text file in a public git repo
alexgordon has quit [Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…]
<Rurik> ELLIOTTCABLE, ec, there?
<ELLIOTTCABLE> Rurik: I mean. kinda.
<ELLIOTTCABLE> I'm at orientation for IIT for like five more hours, and then I've got a party,
<ELLIOTTCABLE> and then more orientation tomorrow
<Rurik> ELLIOTTCABLE, alright
<Rurik> talk to you later then
<Rurik> Till then I'll try my hand at Physics
<ELLIOTTCABLE> Rurik: how's life? I'm studiously ignoring Stupid Orientaion Shit by looking busy on my phone
<Rurik> ELLIOTTCABLE, pretty good
<Rurik> ELLIOTTCABLE, how do you find freelance jobs?
<pikajude> ELLIOTTCABLE, why are you ELLIOTTCABLE and not ec
alexgordon has joined #elliottcable
<Rurik> hi alexgordon
<alexgordon> sup Rurik how's it going?
<Rurik> pretty okay
<Rurik> Feeling not depressed after so many years
<alexgordon> have you figured out what to code yet?
<alexgordon> haha
<Rurik> alexgordon, have a vague idea for a site where you can show off your pedagogical skills
<Rurik> But I guess no one will use it
<alexgordon> yeah even free sites need marketing
<Rurik> I have considered going into teaching
<alexgordon> teaching? what kind
<ELLIOTTCABLE> ahhaaha they just referred to the Other IIT
<ELLIOTTCABLE> @ Rurik
<ELLIOTTCABLE> pikajude: because ELLIOTTCABLE is BESTIOTTCABLE?
<Rurik> will teach little shits to do math for low salary
<ELLIOTTCABLE> Rurik: lollllll little shuts
<purr> lollllll
<alexgordon> Rurik: LOL
<alexgordon> this channel is logged you know :P
<Rurik> ELLIOTTCABLE, A lot of students at the other IIT go to foreign
<alexgordon> maybe your teaching career is already over
<Rurik> haha
<pikajude> ELLIOTTCABLE: nice portmanteau
<alexgordon> Rurik: I had an idea for a project that maybe you'd be interested in... but it's not fully formed yet
<Rurik> alexgordon, do tell
<alexgordon> I have written this model/db layer for another project, and it's pretty sweet, so I've been thinking I should make it into a service
<alexgordon> but I haven't figured how to make it suitable for mass consumption yet
<ELLIOTTCABLE> we're literally bikeshedding, as a group, how many hours average are spent eating per day
<Rurik> also, need money to travel to eastern europe
<Rurik> just need money in general
ljharb_ has joined #elliottcable
<Rurik> alexgordon, what's the idea?
creationix_ has joined #elliottcable
ljharb has quit [*.net *.split]
creationix has quit [*.net *.split]
gkatsev has quit [*.net *.split]
katymoe has quit [*.net *.split]
<alexgordon> uh oh
<ELLIOTTCABLE> and now it's on Minecraft, wtf
<ELLIOTTCABLE> and now it's on Minecraft, wtf
gkatsev has joined #elliottcable
<alexgordon> Rurik: well it's just that. a kind of database layer
<Rurik> alexgordon, so how can it be made a service?
<alexgordon> well you run postgres and give people this API basically
<alexgordon> I ended up trying to adapt cocoa's MVC into javascript see
<alexgordon> and it works quite well
<Rurik> hmmn
<alexgordon> I have this 350 line file, bindings.js which does data bindings, then there's some server-side stuff that stores it in the DB
<Rurik> alexgordon, what do I need to do and what will I learn from it?
<alexgordon> do you know javascript?
ljharb_ is now known as ljharb
<Rurik> alexgordon, not very well
<alexgordon> that, then
<alexgordon> :P
katymoe has joined #elliottcable
<Rurik> alexgordon, I'm interested, when can we start?
<alexgordon> I dunno, I have to figure out a marketable version of it
<alexgordon> right now it's all tied up with the needs of this other project...
<Rurik> hmmn
<alexgordon> I'll do some sketching
<alexgordon> sketching always helps
<alexgordon> Rurik: I have A3 paper, and colored pens. it's amazing the productivity boost
<alexgordon> I used to do like little sketches on napkins, but now I can do BIG plans in multiple colors
meowrobot_ is now known as meowrobot
eligrey has joined #elliottcable
alexgordon has quit [Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…]
eligrey has quit [*.net *.split]
katymoe has quit [*.net *.split]
eligrey has joined #elliottcable
katymoe has joined #elliottcable
katymoe has quit [Max SendQ exceeded]
katymoe has joined #elliottcable
alexgordon has joined #elliottcable
gq has joined #elliottcable