<alexgordon>
wow I've managed to do _nothing_ today
<alexgordon>
ELLIOTTCABLE: how's it going?
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
6:19 PM <alexgordon> wow I've managed to do _nothing_ today
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
pretty much that
<alexgordon>
wasted too much time on the internet
<jfhbrook>
I've done that a few times
<jfhbrook>
I've been joking recently that my goal at work is to get to the point where I'm interrupted so often I don't have to do any real work
<alexgordon>
I can't seem to get into programming, not in the right frame of mind
<alexgordon>
maybe I need to force myself to do some super difficult stuff, then the easy stuff will seem easy
<alexgordon>
trying to write type inference algo in coffeescript... that'll do it
<jfhbrook>
coffeescript? why?
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<alexgordon>
jfhbrook: it is the ultimate programming language
<alexgordon>
it's like a modern python
<jfhbrook>
but it's just javascript with a weird coat
<alexgordon>
not at all, it's javascript with the mistakes fixed
<alexgordon>
no == operator for instance
<alexgordon>
coffeescript > python > js
<jfhbrook>
it doesn't even have all the features, and with es6 that's just gonna get worse
<alexgordon>
so? python doesn't even have multiline lambdas!
<alexgordon>
lol
<purr>
lol
<jfhbrook>
yeah and that's fucking annoying
<alexgordon>
it is, but not annoying enough that I would want to use _javascript_ instead
<alexgordon>
coffeescript on the other hand, is the best of both worlds
<alexgordon>
none of the crazy crap in js, but with more features than python. success!
<jfhbrook>
I worked with coffeescript for a good 4 or 5 months straight
<jfhbrook>
at an old job
<jfhbrook>
and like I just straught up don't get the appeal
<jfhbrook>
if anything I just found it annoying
<jfhbrook>
like it's fine that you like it
<jfhbrook>
but I like javascript
<jfhbrook>
I really do
<alexgordon>
yeah I don't get what is annoying about it?
<jfhbrook>
I don't find the changes bring anything to the table, they only take
<jfhbrook>
I already said that
<jfhbrook>
and on top of that I have to transpile code now
<alexgordon>
you don't _have_ to transpile
<jfhbrook>
node core hasn't ripped out require.paths yet?
<jfhbrook>
wait no they did they totally did
<alexgordon>
there is a node module that will change the requires to automatically invoke coffeescript, but personally I find it easier to just run coffee -wbc .
<jfhbrook>
oh no it's not paths
<jfhbrook>
it's
<jfhbrook>
the extensions registration stuff
<alexgordon>
I dunno, I'm on node 0.12 :P
<jfhbrook>
no it's fucking still there
<jfhbrook>
they were talking about ripping it out around like node 0.6
<alexgordon>
anyway, I mean I'm perfectly happy compiling stuff with clang
<alexgordon>
coffeescript's compilation process is a lot easier
<alexgordon>
so I guess it depends what you're used to?
<jfhbrook>
I`
<jfhbrook>
I'm *used* to not compiling
<alexgordon>
the C++ ecosystem of build systems is a complete mess, so coffeescript seems like a breath of fresh air
<alexgordon>
but if you are used to python, ruby, js, I can see how it would be undesirable
<jfhbrook>
don't get me wrong, tons of people compile es6 and do web builds with browserify or webpack
<jfhbrook>
and compile-to-css languages, all that jazz
<jfhbrook>
and hook up some kinda file watcher that automatically rebuilds on save
<jfhbrook>
and they seem happy with that
<jfhbrook>
but, idk, I just didn't like the experience
<alexgordon>
for me, it tends to two cases: 1) this is just a single file, in which case you can use $ coffee foo.coffee to run it, no compilation step
<alexgordon>
2) it's a more complex project with multiple files, spend a minute deciding how I want to set up compilation
<jfhbrook>
you also have to understand alexgordon that I'm a really big fan of appealing to the lowest common denominator
<jfhbrook>
in terms of adoption
<alexgordon>
I am a big fan of the opposite! :P
<jfhbrook>
to a fault, honestly
<alexgordon>
coffeescript is probably one of the easiest languages to learn, so if someone can't figure that out... they are in the wrong job
<alexgordon>
they might be better off working in mcdonalds or something
<ja>
hehe
<Hrorekr>
alexgordon, I guess I should get a job at McDonalds
<alexgordon>
:D
<Hrorekr>
Actually my problem is that I don't understand programming that well
<alexgordon>
I remember like in 2008 when there was a running joke that js programmers weren't aware of javascript's existence, and called themselves "jquery programmers"
<ja>
`UPPER(period) - CASE WHEN UPPER_INC(period) THEN 0 ELSE 1 END` — why can’t PostgreSQL already do this? :E jeez
<alexgordon>
how things have changed. everybody knows that js exists now!
<ja>
ELLIOTTCABLE: you probably don’t use / hate / dislike / haven’t even really tried Swift, am I wrong?
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
jfhbrook: lolllllll
<purr>
lolllllll
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
ja: ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ @ Swift. Cocoa devs hate it, everybody else loves it.
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
I don't think, widely speaking, that it … matters? idk how to words, but like, as a PL person, I've heard absolutely zero interesting things about it.
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
ja: I really lost my shit when I realized ‘meow-robot’ basically describes purr
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
like omg just, died
<ja>
ELLIOTTCABLE: will you for always be a PL person and not a “product person” or whatchamacallit, dear?
<ja>
ELLIOTTCABLE: I haven’t seen *that* many Cocoa devs hating on Swift, but maybe I just don’t see many Cocoa devs in general…
<ja>
hahahaha
<ja>
excellent
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
ja: yeah, developer UX is my shit
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
that's just … what I care about. and languages are ground-zero for user experience: even the stuff that *isn't* programming is strongly affected by that stuff: for instance, the sorts of static and dynamic analysis and tooling available to devs is 100% restricted by the design of languages.
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
Beyond that, and or particular interest to me *specifically*, is that *languages shape communities*, and 90% of programming is interacting with other programmers.
<ja>
oh, I hadn’t realized you were into the tooling too
<ja>
so (when) will Paws have an IDE? ಥ‿ಥ
<ja>
Languages does indeed shape communities.
<ja>
90%? Really? If by “interacting with other programmers” you mean IRC and SO and reading code and docs and using APIs, then yeah, 90%, I guess. ^_^
<ja>
Or, well, one-person freelancers are pretty edge-case-y, probably…
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
IDE != tooling
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
IDE == scam
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
*more* than 90%. I intentionally under-shot.
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
Reading code other programmers wrote, reading the documentation: interacting with humans, not computers.
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
Writing code for any sort of sharing or distribution beyond ‘running on my own computer once to do one task’: interacting with humans, not computers.
<ja>
IDE == scam‽ wat!
<ja>
Right. I agree wholeheartedly.
<ja>
You’re so full of truths, ELLIOTTCABLE.
<ja>
How are IDEs scams though? :<
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
“Buy into <all of our solutions to problems!> We have <all of the best solutions!> You will be happy in our holistic, community-oriented vegan commune of programming! You shouldn't think for yourself, or use any tooling or solutions outside of our <collection of best solutions!>
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
idk ides seem super cultish and … beginner-oriented, to me. and not in a good, educational way; but in an unhealthy, block-your-development-as-a-programmer sort of way.
<meowrobot_>
<ELLIOTTCABLE> ja: I really lost my shit when I realized ‘meow-robot’ basically describes purr <- lol i didn't think of that either, but it...makes sense
<purr>
lol
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<pikajude>
hey all
<pikajude>
how safe would you say it is to store my password hash (pbkdf2) in a text file in a public git repo
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<Rurik>
ELLIOTTCABLE, ec, there?
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
Rurik: I mean. kinda.
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
I'm at orientation for IIT for like five more hours, and then I've got a party,
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
and then more orientation tomorrow
<Rurik>
ELLIOTTCABLE, alright
<Rurik>
talk to you later then
<Rurik>
Till then I'll try my hand at Physics
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
Rurik: how's life? I'm studiously ignoring Stupid Orientaion Shit by looking busy on my phone
<Rurik>
ELLIOTTCABLE, pretty good
<Rurik>
ELLIOTTCABLE, how do you find freelance jobs?
<pikajude>
ELLIOTTCABLE, why are you ELLIOTTCABLE and not ec
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<Rurik>
hi alexgordon
<alexgordon>
sup Rurik how's it going?
<Rurik>
pretty okay
<Rurik>
Feeling not depressed after so many years
<alexgordon>
have you figured out what to code yet?
<alexgordon>
haha
<Rurik>
alexgordon, have a vague idea for a site where you can show off your pedagogical skills
<Rurik>
But I guess no one will use it
<alexgordon>
yeah even free sites need marketing
<Rurik>
I have considered going into teaching
<alexgordon>
teaching? what kind
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
ahhaaha they just referred to the Other IIT
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
@ Rurik
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
pikajude: because ELLIOTTCABLE is BESTIOTTCABLE?
<Rurik>
will teach little shits to do math for low salary
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
Rurik: lollllll little shuts
<purr>
lollllll
<alexgordon>
Rurik: LOL
<alexgordon>
this channel is logged you know :P
<Rurik>
ELLIOTTCABLE, A lot of students at the other IIT go to foreign
<alexgordon>
maybe your teaching career is already over
<Rurik>
haha
<pikajude>
ELLIOTTCABLE: nice portmanteau
<alexgordon>
Rurik: I had an idea for a project that maybe you'd be interested in... but it's not fully formed yet
<Rurik>
alexgordon, do tell
<alexgordon>
I have written this model/db layer for another project, and it's pretty sweet, so I've been thinking I should make it into a service
<alexgordon>
but I haven't figured how to make it suitable for mass consumption yet
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
we're literally bikeshedding, as a group, how many hours average are spent eating per day
<Rurik>
also, need money to travel to eastern europe
<Rurik>
just need money in general
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<Rurik>
alexgordon, what's the idea?
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<alexgordon>
uh oh
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
and now it's on Minecraft, wtf
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
and now it's on Minecraft, wtf
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<alexgordon>
Rurik: well it's just that. a kind of database layer
<Rurik>
alexgordon, so how can it be made a service?
<alexgordon>
well you run postgres and give people this API basically
<alexgordon>
I ended up trying to adapt cocoa's MVC into javascript see
<alexgordon>
and it works quite well
<Rurik>
hmmn
<alexgordon>
I have this 350 line file, bindings.js which does data bindings, then there's some server-side stuff that stores it in the DB
<Rurik>
alexgordon, what do I need to do and what will I learn from it?
<alexgordon>
do you know javascript?
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<Rurik>
alexgordon, not very well
<alexgordon>
that, then
<alexgordon>
:P
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<Rurik>
alexgordon, I'm interested, when can we start?
<alexgordon>
I dunno, I have to figure out a marketable version of it
<alexgordon>
right now it's all tied up with the needs of this other project...
<Rurik>
hmmn
<alexgordon>
I'll do some sketching
<alexgordon>
sketching always helps
<alexgordon>
Rurik: I have A3 paper, and colored pens. it's amazing the productivity boost
<alexgordon>
I used to do like little sketches on napkins, but now I can do BIG plans in multiple colors
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