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<tabemann> hey guys
<tp> hey tabemann
<tabemann> I'm starting to write some docs for zeptoforth
<tabemann> right now I have a README file
<tabemann> that basically explains how to assemble and load it
<tabemann> it explains the use of e4thcom and why screen sucks
<tp> perfect! thats the most important doc
<tp> screen doesnt suck, it's the only system I'll use
<tp> e4thcom is a much better choice for new forthers tho, ... if they use Linux
<tabemann> I've only gotten screen to work when using slowpaste
<tp> and that definitely sucks
<tabemann> whereas I've found ACK/NAK (not XON/XOFF) works very well with e4thcom
<tabemann> the purpose of NAK being to indicate an error
<tp> nice doc, the next one should be the Wordlist ?
<tabemann> yep
<tabemann> the only thing is how do I organize it
<tabemann> since a lot of important core words aren't in the kernel
<tp> but ack and nak are the Xon/Xoff control data ?
<tabemann> ack and nak aren't xon and xoff
<tabemann> ack indicates readiness to receive data, in this case one line of data
<tabemann> nak indicates error
<tabemann> xon indicates start, xoff indicates stop
<tp> I've known that since 1985 :)
<tp> there are no xon/off characters tho
<tp> only ack and nak
<tabemann> there are unofficial charactes that have been taken to be xon and xoff
<tabemann> and have become an unofficial standard
<tp> hmm, maybe thats why my xon/xoff attempt didnt work ?
<tabemann> e4thcom supports ack/nak if you put it in "noforth" mode
<tabemann> which is what I'm using
<tp> I understand
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<tabemann> bbiab
<tp> no problemo
<tabemann> back
<tp> welcome back!
<tp> ill have to revisit my failed xon/xoff test now :)
<tp> I spent quite a while on my stack comments yesterday and have improved their auto generation substantially
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<tabemann> cool
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* Zarutian_HTC havent been here for, it feels like, bloody forever
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<rdrop-exit> 0 shadow ASCII - Control Character Constants
<rdrop-exit> 2 +---+---+---+----+---+---+---+---+---+--+---+---+--+--+--+---+
<rdrop-exit> 1
<rdrop-exit> 4 |00 |01 |02 |03 |04 |05 |06 |07 |08 |09|0a |0b |0c|0d|0e|0f |
<rdrop-exit> 3 |^@ |^A |^B |^C |^D |^E |^F |^G |^H |^I|^J |^K |^L|^M|^N|^O |
<rdrop-exit> 5 |nul|soh|stx|etx |eot|enq|ack|bel|bs |ht|lf |vt |ff|cr|so|si |
<rdrop-exit> 6 +---+---+---+----+---+---+---+---+---+--+---+---+--+--+--+---+
<rdrop-exit> 7 |^P |^Q |^R |^S |^T |^U |^V |^W |^X |^Y|^Z |^[ |^\|^]|^^|^_ |
<rdrop-exit> 8 |10 |11 |12 |13 |14 |15 |16 |17 |18 |19|1a |1b |1c|1d|1e|1f |
<rdrop-exit> 9 |dle|dc1|dc2|dc3 |dc4|nak|syn|etb|can|em|sub|esc|fs|gs|rs|us |
<rdrop-exit> a | |xon| |xoff| | | | | | | | | | | | |
<rdrop-exit> b +---+---+---+----+---+---+---+---+---+--+---+---+--+--+--+---+
<rdrop-exit> c |^? |
<rdrop-exit> d |7f |
<rdrop-exit> e |del|
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<rdrop-exit> f +---+
<rdrop-exit> although xon and xoff aren't official ASCII, they're almost universally assigned to ^Q and ^S
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<tabemann> back
<rdrop-exit> In Unix they can be enabled/disabled with the IXOFF IXON terminal mode control flags
<tabemann> hey rdrop-exit
<rdrop-exit> hi tabemann
* tabemann is working on docs
<tabemann> I've got docs written for all the words one really cares about in the zeptoforth kernel
<rdrop-exit> the assigned characters can be changed with c_cc[VSTART] and c_cc[VSTOP]
<tabemann> i.e. not the assembler words, various internal words, or the exceptions
<rdrop-exit> kudos tabemann
<tabemann> they're very basic docs though
<tabemann> just the name of the word and the stack signature
<tabemann> I'm going to go back and actually add meanings later
<rdrop-exit> docs are a lot of work
<rdrop-exit> if you scroll back in the history, I posted about xon/xoff
<tabemann> I saw
<rdrop-exit> cool
<rdrop-exit> lunch is on the table, catch you later, stay healthy
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<tp> Zarutian_HTC, welcome back! we were worried you had frozen into the ice in your northern wastelands!
<Zarutian_HTC> tp: it is more of a slush at this time of year
<tp> Zarutian_HTC, yes, it's the end of your summer now ?
<Zarutian_HTC> tp: nope, nearing the start of spring
<tp> Zarutian_HTC, I surmised that the ice was melting and you had thawed out enough to type ?
<Zarutian_HTC> tp: well, you see how non-glacial my response are
<tp> Zarutian_HTC, I do!
<tp> Zarutian_HTC, how was your winter ? our summer was hell this year
<Zarutian_HTC> tp: lesse one major storm that affected infrastructure in the northen parts
<Zarutian_HTC> tp: at least two more that one would not be cought outside in
<tp> Zarutian_HTC, did you get a chance to do any Forth of late ?
<Zarutian_HTC> tp: one snow avalance obliterating a harbour and a few small ships in it
<tp> 29,93 C / 85,77 F at my desk right now, 1635 hrs in NSW, australia
<tp> Zarutian_HTC, thats amazing as I live in a snow and ice free, flat land
<tp> I believe in a flat Australia but a round world
<Zarutian_HTC> week before this one an earth quake big enough to be felt in the capital area
<tp> Zarutian_HTC, perhaps it was just some ice flow breaking ?
<Zarutian_HTC> tp: nope it was due to earth bedrock resettling due to earlier magma collection under a small part of the Reykjanes penisula
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<Zarutian_HTC> this country is geologically after all
<tp> Zarutian_HTC, you get all the excitement, we just get heat and smoke!
<Zarutian_HTC> active*
<tp> Zarutian_HTC, Iceland does sound very interesting
<Zarutian_HTC> oh yeah a local trumpster not only managed to get drunk and steal a cement truck but most likely he is the arsonist behind a fire of a downtown bar
<Zarutian_HTC> tp: at least there are no polarbears here like on Svalbard
<tp> that's the way! we never have anything interesting like that!
<Zarutian_HTC> some of those bears have been found out to be bi possibly due to pollution
<tp> Zarutian_HTC, I looked thru Google photos of your area after we last spoke here, it seemed very isolated
<Zarutian_HTC> tp: what do you mean? i thought australia had lots of murderous fauna
<tp> Zarutian_HTC, only snakes and spiders really, nothing big but Dingos (like a dog) but they dont attack people
<tp> the weather is very dangerous because of the lack of water and the heat
<Zarutian_HTC> tp: depends on where. The capital area is quite relativly nonisolated
<tp> Zarutian_HTC, Icelanders who have offended Odin have to come to Australia to stay after they die
<Zarutian_HTC> tp: and escape the wet and cold misery? prepostourus
<tp> haha
<tp> how far to Svalbard for you ?
<Zarutian_HTC> tough honestly I could do without any more ash erruptions
<Zarutian_HTC> quite the distance really
<tp> ouch, volcanic ash is bad!
<tp> we had months of smoke, but that was just burning trees
<Zarutian_HTC> and there is no direct flight nor ferry between Iceland and Svalbard
<tp> no silicon to tear up our lungs, just carcinogenic tree smoke
* tabemann extracted the comments from much of his Forth code to produce docs
<tp> we had hundreds of fires burning for months, and no water to put them out
<tabemann> unlike the kernel docs, most of it actually says (basically) what it does
<tp> tabemann, excellent
<tabemann> (I omitted the words that I viewed as being internal)
<Zarutian_HTC> the silica settled out quite quickly after the last erruption ended but man the stuff is nasty on equipment
<tp> Zarutian_HTC, I prefer tree smoke :)
<tabemann> why does Australia even have stuff to burn left
<tabemann> it seems as if Australia is constantly aflame
<Zarutian_HTC> tp: saw the aftermath of one compressor cooling unit getting clogged with the stuff
<Zarutian_HTC> tabemann: well there are a few politicans that might work as fuel
<tp> tabemann, the areas are so vast
<tp> Zarutian_HTC, yuk, I can believe it
<Zarutian_HTC> tp: how was it. After two hours drive out of a city you arent in the next one just two hours outside it
<tp> Zarutian_HTC, i had a lot of problems with silicon dust here for a few years
<tp> Zarutian_HTC, there was a 'sand blasting' company next door and clouds of fine sand would blow everywhere
<Zarutian_HTC> tp: the description of the aftermath on thay unit was something on the lines of „anally sandblasted“
<tabemann> surely you mean silica dust, not silicon dust ;) having problems with silicon dust would be, well, weird
<tp> tabemann, yes of course, my mistake
<Zarutian_HTC> tabemann: you know like you get in filesystems on flashdrives
<tp> Zarutian_HTC, yes silica dust is very hard and sharp
<Zarutian_HTC> tp: not to mention electro statically nasty
<tabemann> okay, I'm gonna head off to bed
<tp> Zarutian_HTC, i didnt know that
<tabemann> g'night guys
<tp> night-o tabemann
<tp> Zarutian_HTC, I'm off for a while myself, thanks for the chat!
<Zarutian_HTC> tp: at least the ash kind. Fried a board in externally housed UPS for one ofvhe datacenters here
<Zarutian_HTC> good night
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<veltas> Who is dddddd? They were asking me about some computers before I went on holiday to a place without internet
<veltas> Oh well catch them later I suppose
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<veltas> In the book "Starting FORTH", DEPTH is defined as : DEPTH S0 @ 'S - 2/ 2- ;
<veltas> That doesn't make any sense to me, does this actually work on any Forth?
<veltas> I'm confused that S0 would be a variable, and not just return the base of the stack, it's been mentioned elsewhere that S0 is "beyond" the stack so one cell must be removed, but the 2- is done after dividing
<veltas> So that's like compensating for 2 cells ( i.e. 2/ 2- is the same as 4 - 2/ )
<tabemann> back
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<tabemann> that's simple
<tabemann> it assumes 16 bit cells
<tabemann> S0 @ must be the bottom of the stack
<tabemann> there is a mistake though
<tabemann> 2- should be before 2/ or it should be 1- after 2/
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<f-a> so, are you all hoarding... tp?
<f-a> ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
<veltas> tabemann: Okay that is my guess, would be very confusing to someone typing that in though, given this is meant to be a helpful example early on
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<rdrop-exit> veltas, I think that's a typo
<rdrop-exit> in the first edition of Starting Forth (the 79 standard one)
<rdrop-exit> The 2nd edition (i.e., the 83 standard compliant one) doesn't define DEPTH
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<rdrop-exit> A more typical defintion of depth on a 16 bit system would be
<rdrop-exit> sp@ s0 @ swap - 2/
<rdrop-exit> veltas, to answer your question on why s0 needs to be fetched, it's because s0 is a USER variable on multi-tasking Forths since each task has its own
<rdrop-exit> gotta sleep, goodnight
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<tabemann> hey guys
<veltas> tabemann: hey
* tabemann just fixed a nasty bug that was causing stack problems, but inexplicably wasn't causing zeptoforth to crash despite also generating corrupt machine code
<tabemann> I only found the bug because there was another bug that was causing an extraneous value to be put on the stack which I had just fixed
<veltas> And that caused an actual effect from the nasty bug?
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<tabemann> yes
<tabemann> the actual bug was that when UNTIL was compiling a 32-bit beq word - which only occurred with a long enough of a jump - it was erroneously not exiting but rather also compiling a 16-bit beq word
<tabemann> which was taking up a cell from the stack for a destination address
<tabemann> but even though this instruction would be garbage, it would still be a beq instruction
<tabemann> and because the status register would already be set for Z == 0, this one wouldn't branch either
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<veltas> Nasty
<veltas> I'm only permitting 8-bit jumps in my forth
<MrMobius> can you trap bad instructions on ARM?
<veltas> But they are all directed with logical bases, i.e. the 8-bit 'jump' used for an IF considers the next forth instruction following IF+jump as 0, and goes to 255. Likewise the LOOP jump distance starts at the LOOP itself and goes 255 back.
<veltas> MrMobius: Apparantly the undefined instruction exception is the same as the divide by 0 exception
<veltas> So from that I will assume you have a decent amount of control in baremetal and also in a hosted program
<veltas> So yes you can trap bad instructions