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<siraben> I just tried this out, the quality of the Z80 assembly output is pretty solid. https://github.com/jacobly0/llvm-project
<siraben> As compared to SDCC, for instance.
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<proteusguy> Cool there's a Z80 llvm compiler target now? Is there any kind of 6809 out there?
<f-a> is there? amazing
<siraben> proteusguy: Yep! Not sure about the 6809, I only recently heard about Motorola 68000 support being upstreamed: https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=LLVM-Motorola-6800-Series-2020
<siraben> f-a: yeah. looks like it's more targeted towards the eZ80 on the TI-84 PCE, but Z80 works as well
<proteusguy> Likely an excellent way to learn about the intermediate language representation in llvm with such a simple cpu target as well.
<proteusguy> Have to see how biased it is towards register based machines vs stack based ones to see if it could be a good target for a stack CPU like J1 or a future ActorForth.
<siraben> Yeah. LLVM has a tutorial on writing a backend: https://www.llvm.org/docs/WritingAnLLVMBackend.html
<siraben> LLVM is very biased towards register machines
<proteusguy> (sigh) that's what I'm afraid of.... alas.
<siraben> Though, someone has written an LLVM backend for EVM https://github.com/etclabscore/evm_llvm/wiki/files/LLVM_talk.pdf
<proteusguy> Interesting.
<siraben> Wow, seems like because stack machines are not common some LLVM infrastructure tools are missing
<proteusguy> yeah no surprise. wonder if there's a video of this presentation somewhere. Also EVM only having one stack is altogether a different animal than a dual (or more) stack machine.
<siraben> yeah, that's really a problem. How did EVM's designers even come up with a single stack, heh.
<siraben> proteusguy: yeah the talk is on youtube, if you look up evm llvm
<f-a> I wonder if you could write .ll directly
<f-a> *ir
<siraben> .ll is the extension, yeah
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<proteusguy> f-a, you certainly can.
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<proteusguy> siraben, nice! will check out that video. wonder why people aren't targeting it for their languages. seems you could fix Solidity/Vyper pretty quickly with something like this.
<siraben> I like what the speaker just said, Solidity telling Ethereum Foundation they shouldn't add opcodes because of lack of compiler support is like GCC telling Intel the same thing
<siraben> And the foundation wants to add things like actual subroutines and so on.
<siraben> direct jumps too
<proteusguy> haha solidity should just die.
<siraben> I wonder if Vyper has improved as of late, they made pretty terrible changes last time I followed it
<proteusguy> It's slow in moving... has very little support - plus it's not going the right direction at all imho. It basically just sucks less than Solidity.
<siraben> Ugh, yeah.
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<proteusguy> siraben, interestingly release v0.2.5 just came out yesterday for Vyper. https://github.com/vyperlang/vyper/blob/1e621e8cff5e170e93ce7a33817adfb95244eec2/docs/release-notes.rst#v025
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<siraben> Nice improvements.
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<f-a> is assembly needed to learn forth?
<f-a> well, very useful rather
<crc> it can be helpful, but I wouldn't say it's needed
<siraben> f-a: jonesforth is a great introduction to Forth, https://github.com/nornagon/jonesforth
<siraben> I didn't know x86assembly while reading it and it still made sense.
<f-a> thanks!
<crc> I use forth all the time, but only use assembly occasionally
<f-a> what do you use it for, if I may ask
<MrMobius> f-a, people usually combine forth and assembly if they need performance
<MrMobius> probably not relevant if youre on a desktop though
<f-a> thanks, indeed I am on a desktop but I feel this is not the best «place» where to learn/use forth
<f-a> (maybe I am wrong)
<MrMobius> should be fine. go for it
<crc> forth works great on a desktop or server :)
<crc> I write and maintain a variety of server-based applications written in Forth that we use where I work
<f-a> it does for sure but I do not see what problems I would like to solve with it or what programs I would like to build with it.
<f-a> oh, I see, very interesting
<crc> and it's my language of choice for personal projects of all sorts
<crc> e.g., I've been working on a tool to convert Markdown to XHTML & epub for my documentation, and for other books I edit
<f-a> that is quite interesting
<f-a> is the source open?
<crc> for the epub tool yes, for the work apps, no
<f-a> yes yes, I was talking about the epub
<f-a> I am curios to see what a forth codebase (a reasonably complex one) looks like
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<crc> it spans a few source files.
<f-a> amazing, I will read these with interest!
<crc> notes: these are the syntax highlighted versions, for the raw source, drop the .html
<f-a> phenomenal!
<crc> notes: the syntax highlighted versions are generated using a program in forth (a variation of the markdown to xhtml)
<crc> final note: the web server used to host these is also written in forth
<f-a> by you?
<crc> yes
<crc> I try to use my own tools as much as possible
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