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<FUZxxl>
sts-q: cool!
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<MrMobius>
neat
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<cmtptr>
i knew of both factor and joy but i didn't check them out because for me the fun is inventing my own and i didn't want to be diluted with ideas from something that already exists. but yeah, i should explore other things for ideas when i hit a hard roadblock
<f-a>
heard about them, would like to see some production software (idk a game) written in them
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<FUZxxl>
cmtptr: same here
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<MrMobius>
hehe, ya someone pointed out that most forth projects seem to be making a forth
<MrMobius>
as opposed to using a forth to make something else
<f-a>
yeah
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<sts-q>
cmtptr: yes, i understand, i feel it the same, it is a lot of fun to find its own way. Well, it takes a lot of time.
<sts-q>
This is 2048 and Tetris of Joy, rabbit accent.
<cmtptr>
MrMobius, for me, forth is a way to explore new ideas and develop how i approach software problems. if my goal is to make something else, then for me, the path of least resistance is c
<MrMobius>
cmtptr, dont let anyone else hear you say that :P
<cmtptr>
i know
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<sts-q>
f-a: This is something i never understood: there are so many implementations of interesting languages, Forth
<sts-q>
or others, but where are the applications using these ? I don't expect anyone running her factory on it,
<sts-q>
but there should be 'some' small programs, written from others ?
<f-a>
sts-q: I am not a forth dev, I am learning and would like to buy a SOC to get hands on
<f-a>
but on the language I use (Haskell)
<f-a>
1) there is exactly one standard implementation — sad! —
<f-a>
2) and there are some useful programs, tho the most juicy ones are closed source / for firms
<MrMobius>
I think it's because writing a forth system is fun because it's so easy
<f-a>
with Forth you always hear that the project is corporate or personal
<MrMobius>
writing a C compiler is very difficult and not fun
<f-a>
I suspect that is b/c Forth people like to work from the ground up
<MrMobius>
other people can tell you examples of forth in the real world
<MrMobius>
some space stuff i think
<MrMobius>
power distribution stuff
<MrMobius>
even writing an assembler is harder than writing a forth
<sts-q>
MrMobius: Yes, that is very true: i don't know any other language that could give you such a lift in abstraction level from asm to above C with so few LOC.
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<cmtptr>
those forths that do everything with quotations (joy might be one, i can't remember): how do they, for example, conditionally exit? for example, (not sure if my syntax is right) : foo [ do-something exit ] [ ] some-check if other-stuff... ; wouldn't the exit there only exit from the quotation? do these forths tend to make heavy use of the rdrop-exit idiom, and is there a word for it?
<crc>
this is ... inconvienent to do in a quotation heavy forth
<cmtptr>
ha, that's what i was starting to suspect. i thought it looked compelling, but now i'm thinking maybe it's a neat gimmick and not actually so practical
<crc>
I have some words like if; case s:case that return to the caller after running the do-something part
<crc>
but this requires a bit more consideration in implementing such words
<cmtptr>
yeah, it's giving me ptsd flashbacks of uplevel from tcl
<crc>
it leads to a different style of coding and structuring things, not really a gimmick, but definitely different than classical forth
<crc>
`:foo [ do-something ] if; ... ;` isn't much different from `: foo if do-something exit then ... ;`
<Zarutian_HTC>
cmtptr: what do you have against uplevel from tcl? quite handy for implementing esoteric control structures that peg code reviewers wtf meter
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<cmtptr>
oh, you work for a company where people actually read the code reviews and don't just click approve. that's why we've had different experiences
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<Zarutian_HTC>
cmtptr: a small electronics manifacturing shop. You do not get away with out any review
<cmtptr>
i need to change jobs
<cmtptr>
where i work, people either don't read them or the ones that do are just irritating and petty people who ding you for stupid stuff like a space after a comma is missing (nevermind that it's that way because it's in a chunk of code that you copied from something they wrote)
* Zarutian_HTC
it was home grown orcad/kicad/eaglecad board files to pick and place file format converter if you must know
<Zarutian_HTC>
oh, this is precisely why I like linters that run as a git check in hook
<cmtptr>
i'd love to work for a small local business, i just don't know how to find them
<Zarutian_HTC>
where in the world, coarsely, are you situated?
<cmtptr>
southeast us
<cmtptr>
specifically georgia
<Zarutian_HTC>
hmm... and you do not know any tradesmen, even tangengally know of, of any kind be it welders, mechanics that fix vechiles that might have 'unobtainum' parts?
<cmtptr>
no, my social network is garbage
<Zarutian_HTC>
you could go to the nearest self owned mechanics shop and just ask, might give you some kind of pointers
<Zarutian_HTC>
pointers such as just a name of a company
<cmtptr>
company for what?
<Zarutian_HTC>
in your field
<cmtptr>
why would a mechanic know that?
<Zarutian_HTC>
because often a car, tractor, what have you has some control electronics that needs to be repaired and replacement is not available
<cmtptr>
ah
* Zarutian_HTC
notes that Bosch ECUs have damn nigh impossible to desolder big connectors: the fix, desolder an broken connector from otherwise working unit, do the same to a broken donor with whole connector, and put the whole connector on the working unit.