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<sts-q> FUZxxl, cmtptr, MrMobius:
<sts-q> I think you know the Factor Programming Language.
<sts-q> Rabbit-vm is an implementation of the Joy Programming Language. It is GCed, written is x86-64 assembly (FASM),
<sts-q> Do you know about the Joy-Programming-Language ? It is half way between Forth and Lisp.
<sts-q> and knows about the types Int, List, Symbol and Float.
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<FUZxxl> sts-q: cool!
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<MrMobius> neat
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<cmtptr> i knew of both factor and joy but i didn't check them out because for me the fun is inventing my own and i didn't want to be diluted with ideas from something that already exists. but yeah, i should explore other things for ideas when i hit a hard roadblock
<f-a> heard about them, would like to see some production software (idk a game) written in them
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<FUZxxl> cmtptr: same here
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<MrMobius> hehe, ya someone pointed out that most forth projects seem to be making a forth
<MrMobius> as opposed to using a forth to make something else
<f-a> yeah
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<sts-q> cmtptr: yes, i understand, i feel it the same, it is a lot of fun to find its own way. Well, it takes a lot of time.
<sts-q> This is 2048 and Tetris of Joy, rabbit accent.
<cmtptr> MrMobius, for me, forth is a way to explore new ideas and develop how i approach software problems. if my goal is to make something else, then for me, the path of least resistance is c
<MrMobius> cmtptr, dont let anyone else hear you say that :P
<cmtptr> i know
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<sts-q> f-a: This is something i never understood: there are so many implementations of interesting languages, Forth
<sts-q> or others, but where are the applications using these ? I don't expect anyone running her factory on it,
<sts-q> but there should be 'some' small programs, written from others ?
<f-a> sts-q: I am not a forth dev, I am learning and would like to buy a SOC to get hands on
<f-a> but on the language I use (Haskell)
<f-a> 1) there is exactly one standard implementation — sad! —
<f-a> 2) and there are some useful programs, tho the most juicy ones are closed source / for firms
<f-a> (i.e. I wrote those two, which are nothing spectacular but do something useful http://www.ariis.it/static/articles/lentil-manual/page.html http://www.ariis.it/static/articles/venzone/page.html )
<MrMobius> I think it's because writing a forth system is fun because it's so easy
<f-a> with Forth you always hear that the project is corporate or personal
<MrMobius> writing a C compiler is very difficult and not fun
<f-a> I suspect that is b/c Forth people like to work from the ground up
<MrMobius> other people can tell you examples of forth in the real world
<MrMobius> some space stuff i think
<MrMobius> power distribution stuff
<MrMobius> even writing an assembler is harder than writing a forth
<sts-q> MrMobius: Yes, that is very true: i don't know any other language that could give you such a lift in abstraction level from asm to above C with so few LOC.
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<f-a> is this related to forth?
<f-a> hosted on darcs, awesome
<Zarutian_HTC> perhaps sixel support will now be more widespread in terminal emulators
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<inode> sts-q: well this isn't for an entire factory, but it'll work for at least a small PLC @ https://es.ua/forthlogic
<inode> no guide in english unfortunately, but there's a simulator on offer to play with and a guide in russian about the dialect of forth in use - which is out of date compared to what you'll find @ https://archive.org/details/ProgrammingForthLogicV27Ru/page/n5/mode/2up
<inode> a doc in english about a device that can be programmed using forthlogic: https://www.fif.com.pl/en/index.php?controller=attachment?id_attachment=1601
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<cmtptr> those forths that do everything with quotations (joy might be one, i can't remember): how do they, for example, conditionally exit? for example, (not sure if my syntax is right) : foo [ do-something exit ] [ ] some-check if other-stuff... ; wouldn't the exit there only exit from the quotation? do these forths tend to make heavy use of the rdrop-exit idiom, and is there a word for it?
<crc> this is ... inconvienent to do in a quotation heavy forth
<cmtptr> ha, that's what i was starting to suspect. i thought it looked compelling, but now i'm thinking maybe it's a neat gimmick and not actually so practical
<crc> I have some words like if; case s:case that return to the caller after running the do-something part
<crc> but this requires a bit more consideration in implementing such words
<cmtptr> yeah, it's giving me ptsd flashbacks of uplevel from tcl
<crc> it leads to a different style of coding and structuring things, not really a gimmick, but definitely different than classical forth
<crc> `:foo [ do-something ] if; ... ;` isn't much different from `: foo if do-something exit then ... ;`
<Zarutian_HTC> cmtptr: what do you have against uplevel from tcl? quite handy for implementing esoteric control structures that peg code reviewers wtf meter
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<cmtptr> oh, you work for a company where people actually read the code reviews and don't just click approve. that's why we've had different experiences
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<Zarutian_HTC> cmtptr: a small electronics manifacturing shop. You do not get away with out any review
<cmtptr> i need to change jobs
<cmtptr> where i work, people either don't read them or the ones that do are just irritating and petty people who ding you for stupid stuff like a space after a comma is missing (nevermind that it's that way because it's in a chunk of code that you copied from something they wrote)
* Zarutian_HTC it was home grown orcad/kicad/eaglecad board files to pick and place file format converter if you must know
<Zarutian_HTC> oh, this is precisely why I like linters that run as a git check in hook
<cmtptr> i'd love to work for a small local business, i just don't know how to find them
<Zarutian_HTC> where in the world, coarsely, are you situated?
<cmtptr> southeast us
<cmtptr> specifically georgia
<Zarutian_HTC> hmm... and you do not know any tradesmen, even tangengally know of, of any kind be it welders, mechanics that fix vechiles that might have 'unobtainum' parts?
<cmtptr> no, my social network is garbage
<Zarutian_HTC> you could go to the nearest self owned mechanics shop and just ask, might give you some kind of pointers
<Zarutian_HTC> pointers such as just a name of a company
<cmtptr> company for what?
<Zarutian_HTC> in your field
<cmtptr> why would a mechanic know that?
<Zarutian_HTC> because often a car, tractor, what have you has some control electronics that needs to be repaired and replacement is not available
<cmtptr> ah
* Zarutian_HTC notes that Bosch ECUs have damn nigh impossible to desolder big connectors: the fix, desolder an broken connector from otherwise working unit, do the same to a broken donor with whole connector, and put the whole connector on the working unit.
<Zarutian_HTC> the kind from 1998 btw
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