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<soul-d> ok all think happy thoughs
<soul-d> for iowaneese peope
<soul-d> should vote for ron paul :P
<azonenberg> I've abstained in every election since i became eligible to vote
<azonenberg> I can't endorse any of the candidates in good conscience
<azonenberg> i disagree with all of them on at least one major issue
<azonenberg> This way, i have the satisfaction of knowing that no matter who wins
<azonenberg> however badly he screws up
<azonenberg> i didn't vote for him
<soul-d> true without voting you aqwuire the right to complain :P
<azonenberg> i mean i could just as well vote for some crazy independent candidate, but odds are i dont share his views either
<soul-d> but as foreigner i must hope for at least a stable realible person
<azonenberg> i want the country to be run by engineers
<soul-d> i only see that in ron paul
<azonenberg> Unfortunately, they all know better than to run for political office
<soul-d> not those over relegious people
<soul-d> true
<soul-d> i wish it worked that way sadly people like that
<soul-d> have no intrest in power
<azonenberg> Exactly
<soul-d> withc is the politcal game
<azonenberg> And that's why we need one of them in office
<azonenberg> Because having no interest in power means you will be doing what's best for the country
<azonenberg> not what will get you re-elected
<azonenberg> But i know full well it's not going to happen any time soon
<soul-d> still waiting for those damn vulcans to show up ? :)
<azonenberg> If one of the candidates acted like a vulcan i would vote for him
<azonenberg> and maybe even contribute to his campaign
<azonenberg> Sadly, they seem to have not found our planet
<soul-d> i see plenty of images on ent where they do funny hand marks
<soul-d> almost like vulcans do
<azonenberg> i'm not talkign that
<azonenberg> I'm talking about acting logically
<azonenberg> and rationally
<soul-d> so why no intrest in ron paul ?
<soul-d> he seems reasonable rationale
<azonenberg> I havent looked at him in enough depth but i dont think he meets my standards either
<soul-d> you should looks promising from foreign perspective
<soul-d> i will use that map to avoid places that din't vote for paul :P
<soul-d> not that id be there in near future
<soul-d> but ill keep on my hd somewher :)
<soul-d> cause from foreign perspective all those other candidates are imposible
<azonenberg> as in?
<soul-d> most of them are crazy
<soul-d> going on about iran
<azonenberg> they WANT to rule the country
<azonenberg> that alone is enough to make them crazy in my book
<soul-d> true :) anyhow just keep an close eye on it with ron paul i at least have some hope all others would probably be bad for foreign relations
<azonenberg> I'm more concerned about domestic concerns
<soul-d> wasn't it november theelections ?
<azonenberg> But none of them can accept rational views on anything
<soul-d> cause well yeah if ron paul doesnt get it it might be dooms day :P
<azonenberg> For example, while I personally think homosexuality is wrong, that doesn't mean i think any less of a person who is
<azonenberg> it just means i won't marry a guy
<soul-d> true
<soul-d> i think it's wrong to
<soul-d> but i can't say for some other dude
<azonenberg> And yet on grounds of separation of church and state, I oppose any attempts at getting "marriage" into the picture
<azonenberg> Because marriage is a religious ceremony that should have nothing to do with civil stuff
<azonenberg> If i want to name someone I live with as being covered under my health insurance, for example
<soul-d> true sadly lots of benefits come with bein married
<soul-d> for stuff
<azonenberg> it should be nobody's business whether i'm in love with them or not
<azonenberg> it could be a roommate with a steady girlfriend for all i care
<azonenberg> but we decided it was financially best for us to share the same insurance
<azonenberg> While entirely hypothetical, such a situation is impossible without divorcing marriage and the related legal benefits entirely
<azonenberg> But yet none of the candidates from ANY party would consider such a solution
<azonenberg> Because they care more about pushing their religious or anti-religious agendas
<azonenberg> than simply maximizing benefit for all involved
<soul-d> true but then you are probably an atheist
<azonenberg> My beliefs lie somewhere between deism and pure science
<azonenberg> in that i have no scientific explanation for the origin of the universe so i am willing to consider the possibility of divine creation, and yet i cannot say i believe that's the case
<azonenberg> i simply have no opinion on the subject
<azonenberg> because i have no evidence either way
<azonenberg> i can't prove God exists, i can't prove he doesnt
<azonenberg> again, the kind of hard logic that politicians seem to lack
<soul-d> k but important part of that thingy for me is is the belief that reason and observation of the natural world, without the need for organized religion, can determine that the universe is the product of an all-powerful creator. According to deists, the creator does not intervene in human affairs or suspend the natural laws of the universe. Deists typically reject supernatural events such as prophecy and miracles,
<azonenberg> that's why i said between
<soul-d> or simply said "i don't know "
<azonenberg> in that i can't prove a creator exists, but i can't prove he doesn't
<azonenberg> if i was an atheist, i would flat out say there is no God
<soul-d> thtas what my usual reaction is
<azonenberg> But as a scientist i have to remain detached due to the lack of evidence
<soul-d> there is no god that interferes with human life
<soul-d> or cares what i or you do
<azonenberg> So on just two issues alone, i've pretty much eliminated any major candidate from consideration
<azonenberg> to say nothing of the other highly controversial ones like gun control
<azonenberg> It's obvious that you cannot stop illegal firearms from getting onto the streets, if they can smuggle drugs they can smugle guns
<soul-d> ok but if you liek domenestic aproach you should still see and look if ron paul can use your vote he dus want's to stop being all over the world and work on the usa
<azonenberg> There are already enough laws to prevent criminals from legally getting firearms
<soul-d> true over regulation for the masses
<azonenberg> But at the same time, you also want to keep idiots from getting them
<azonenberg> As well as people who simply lack training
<soul-d> while the bad guy's have no problem
<azonenberg> So therefore, the best solution is stronger enforcement of existing laws, combined with much tougher training requirements
<soul-d> yeah every year stupid people with fireworks here
<soul-d> since it's only allowed 1 day in year
<azonenberg> any average Joe off the street without a criminal record who passes a psychological screening should be allowed to purchase a firearm, for example
<azonenberg> BUT
<azonenberg> and this is the key part that people on both sides of the debate miss
<azonenberg> First he has to show he knows how to use it
<soul-d> but no real reagulation except whats in fireworks
<azonenberg> a two hour class or whatever the hunter education class is totally inadequate
<azonenberg> you need tens of hours of range time as a minimum
<azonenberg> with your choice of a concentration on self-defense, hunting, etc
<soul-d> true
<azonenberg> but it should include difficult exercises
<soul-d> few tens of hours is not enough to master basics even
<azonenberg> Exactly
<azonenberg> That's range time alone
<soul-d> habbits need 21 day's to settle and repetition
<azonenberg> But for the self defense track (required for handguns) it should also include realistic tactical scenarios with a paintball-type gun and instructors playing the part of potential threats and noncombatants
<azonenberg> so you're walking along a simulated city street and a guy jumps out at you
<azonenberg> you have two seconds to decide if he's pointing a gun at you or holding a phone
<azonenberg> stuff like that
<soul-d> i need 0.335
<azonenberg> for the hunting track, it should include field exercises
<soul-d> but depends on state
<azonenberg> that involve quickly determining if there's any civilians or roads or whatever
<azonenberg> in your line of fire
<azonenberg> Most firearms-related accidents are the result of either triggerhappy idiots or someone who doesn't know how to store it properly
<azonenberg> So you weed them out by making them fail the training
<azonenberg> or by training away that idiocy
<soul-d> i think i pass i have my airgun locked with cheap trigger lock and lost the key :_)
<azonenberg> lol
<azonenberg> My planned firearms storage facility is a room in a basement of the home i haven't built yet
<azonenberg> Masonry walls, maybe reinforced concrete, and a steel door
<azonenberg> to keep a burglar who gets into the house out of the room
<soul-d> but i live in small country
<soul-d> so normal its banned here
<azonenberg> Camera in the hallway, plus a card reader and thumbprint or retinal scanner on the door
<soul-d> we just calculated netherlands fits 3,5 times in iowa
<soul-d> :)
<azonenberg> then firearms in one safe and ammo in another
<azonenberg> combination locks on both
<soul-d> but had 6 times more people
<azonenberg> A textbook defense-in-depth strategy that the average person just doesn't consider
<azonenberg> maybe trigger locks inside the safe, maybe not
<azonenberg> But where, on either sides of any debate, do you see gun control/rights people advocating much higher training?
<azonenberg> Nowhere
<soul-d> sounds you building a a bunker since it's 2012 :P
<azonenberg> Lol, i dont expect to even start construction till 2016 ish
<azonenberg> Which is the earliest i would graduate
<azonenberg> More likely i would save up for a few years
<azonenberg> 2020ish say
<azonenberg> the facility would include the secure room for the armory, but also a dedicated server room, machine shop, and cleanroom
<azonenberg> a SEM
<azonenberg> evaporation and sputtering equipment if i can afford them by then
<soul-d> well hope it will be bussiness as usual sooner oor later :P but world sucks and people are stupid
<soul-d> once they forget wars
<soul-d> and what happend
<soul-d> they go again
<soul-d> usa is much cheaper to go big
<azonenberg> Well, counterinsurgency is not a war
<azonenberg> A war can be won
<azonenberg> and is fighting against a well defined enemy
<azonenberg> So maybe there was a war when we were just trying to kick out Saddam
<soul-d> another reason to look at ron paul he at least wants tot declare wars @ congress define it and win it IF he would want to go to war
<soul-d> or whatever the constitutional way is
<azonenberg> But trying to stabilize a region where everyone just wants to promote their own ethnic group at the expense of others
<azonenberg> is not really something you can win
<soul-d> true
<azonenberg> So i would say the war, if there was any, was won in a few months
<soul-d> but i usally don't vote either get bewtrayed just when you got hopes up
<azonenberg> But guerillas are nearly impossible to defeat
<soul-d> and it's more a vicious cy cle that creates more poeople against the troops
<azonenberg> I'm not talking iraq in particular
<azonenberg> that situation is even worse than conventional guerillas
<azonenberg> Because there's basically a civil war going on
<azonenberg> I do think, no matter what anyone's thoughts on whether the *army* should be in the middle east or not
<azonenberg> the national guard should not ever be deployed overseas
<azonenberg> their job is disaster response and defending the country against invasion
<azonenberg> so no matter what the situation is, they do not belong in an offensive role
<azonenberg> ever
<azonenberg> that's the active duty service's job
<soul-d> true
<soul-d> don't you have problems at mexican borders
<soul-d> and it's not that it's a few but i though i saw a figure of 100k from national guard serving overseas ?
<soul-d> 80-100
<soul-d> somthing like that i can remmember vaguly
<azonenberg> The mexican border is probably where most of the illegal guns and drugs find their way into the country
<azonenberg> So people are definitely needed there
<soul-d> yeah
<soul-d> first of divert all weed to me
<soul-d> ill burn it responsibly
<azonenberg> Lol
<soul-d> 2012 will be year ill leave tabaco behind me though :p
<soul-d> wich will be hard since im used to the mixed taste and don't smoke normal sigarets
<soul-d> but probably be easyer to smoke less afther that :)
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