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<coolcmos>
hi mrdata thanks for the redirect
<mrdata>
yw
<coolcmos>
ive got an idea hypothesis if your interested
<coolcmos>
my hypothesis is that cmos can be dopped without using boron or phosphorus just using lasers and oxygen.. not entirely certain this will work tho
<mrdata>
let's see how
<coolcmos>
ok.. im thinking its based upon galvanazation
<coolcmos>
doping that is
<coolcmos>
heat and oxegen during a galvanic cycle
<coolcmos>
when silicon is magnetized it has different galvanic propertised based upon the magnetic direction
<coolcmos>
boron or phosphourus is the means we normaly galvanize silicon
<coolcmos>
but a magnetic field can do it on a temporary basis
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<coolcmos>
this is all hypothetical but if it were true, could the temporary situation be made permanent to ionize the silicon
<coolcmos>
oxegen can ionize the material but only with extreme heat
<coolcmos>
waht do you think
<coolcmos>
mrdata
<mrdata>
i must leave
<mrdata>
fire alarm here
<coolcmos>
can you comment first
<mrdata>
home in 1.5 hrs ish
<coolcmos>
ok maybe cya then
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<coolcmos>
wb
<coolcmos>
wb mrdata
<coolcmos>
so what do you think of the hypothesis mrdata
<mrdata>
hi coolcmos
<mrdata>
sorry i had to leave before i read it (fire alarm at toronto AMC theatre earlier)
<mrdata>
so i dont have the text
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<coolcmos>
do you want me to repost
<mrdata_>
blork; yeah, pastebin it if that's okay
<coolcmos>
y hypothesis is that cmos can be dopped without using boron or phosphorus just using lasers and oxygen.. not entirely certain this will work tho
<mrdata_>
my connection here is flakey for past 2 days
<coolcmos>
im thinking its based upon galvanazation
<coolcmos>
heat and oxegen during a galvanic cycle
<coolcmos>
boron or phosphourus is the means we normaly galvanize silicon
<coolcmos>
but a magnetic field can do it on a temporary basis
<mrdata_>
mhm; how do you obtain a P layer or an N layer?
<coolcmos>
his is all hypothetical but if it were true, could the temporary situation be made permanent to ionize the silicon
<mrdata_>
and how stable is this likely to be?
<coolcmos>
oxegen can ionize the material but only with extreme heat
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<mrdata_>
i dont understand
<mrdata_>
how do you obtain a P layer or an N layer?
<coolcmos>
well a magnetic field and dope the silicon but only temorarily
<coolcmos>
wb
<coolcmos>
ok.. well we know a transisotr is like a battery in the sense that a photo cell can be made with one
<coolcmos>
during a magnetic swing of an electromagnet
<coolcmos>
as it pushes or pulls electrons
<coolcmos>
not to be confused with positive field or negative field
<coolcmos>
on an outward cycle it is pushing electrons, 2/4 or inward cyccle it is pulling electrons 2/4
<coolcmos>
the silicon doesnt retain the charge tho just like metal doesnt
<coolcmos>
boron or phosphorus are like battery materials in a stack
<coolcmos>
they have galvanic differences on th chart
<coolcmos>
are you still there?
<coolcmos>
mrdata
<coolcmos>
boron and phosphorus are N and P materials respectively on a galvanic chart
<mrdata_>
srtill here; to hilight me, use correct spelling of my nick
<coolcmos>
silicon in a electromaget swing are N and P materials respectively to the swing but only during the swing
<coolcmos>
oh sorry when you came back you didnt change your nick back
<coolcmos>
any way this is just hypothetical but basicly says you can dope silicon with an electromagetic and effective corrosion
<coolcmos>
saying that you can rub off the N or P charge during corrosion or the electromagnet
<coolcmos>
of
<coolcmos>
backwards
<mrdata_>
i dont know if any of this works
<coolcmos>
saying that you can rub off the N or P of the electromagnet druing corrosion
<coolcmos>
like i said hypotheticaly
<mrdata_>
well, folks here have experience with the chemistry of it
<coolcmos>
have you seen a wiki on gavalnic corrosion where an iron nail is pictured
<coolcmos>
im wondering if anybody here can try it
<mrdata_>
and caqn probably advise better than i can on this
<coolcmos>
im not a chemist either, im a computer scientist and electronics computer electronics engineer/tech
<coolcmos>
im thinking if i had an undopped silicon wafer and a high powered electromagnet, oxygen and a laser focused thru magnefine glasses to make a tiny pitch but only during the respective swing of the electrical field it could be verified
<coolcmos>
or rather it might need water vapor
<coolcmos>
the hypothesis is that rusting so to speak is the same as doping.. except you have to rust the material in a particular electo dopped direction
<coolcmos>
boron or phosphorus natively do that
<mrdata_>
best draw a diagram of trhe crystal structure you need i think
<coolcmos>
the hypothsis is that it is not needed only the filed they create
<coolcmos>
field
<coolcmos>
im not a chemist, i havent a clue how to draw a crystal lattice diagram
<mrdata_>
stuffr to learn, then
<coolcmos>
yes but the reason i think this idea hasnt been thougth of is because people think of a positive field being during positive field of an AC cyccle
<coolcmos>
when its not
<coolcmos>
its either outgoing or ingoing
<coolcmos>
people think of it like an RF signal
<coolcmos>
a wave traveling
<coolcmos>
instead of push or pull or electrons
<coolcmos>
outward push from zero to peak vs inward pull from peak to zero
<coolcmos>
but if any of this is true the very large very hot ovens wouldnt be neccesary
<coolcmos>
making homebrew of semiconductors so easy any one could do it at home
<coolcmos>
which is what i was looking for.. an easy way to do it without expensive equipment and hasardous materials
<coolcmos>
id like to see my fpga designs built upon wafers
<coolcmos>
i was hoping somebody in here would take the idea and test it and if it works propse a kit
<mrdata_>
i encourage you to find ways to test it yourself
<coolcmos>
well my income is limited.. i was in a bad accident
<mrdata_>
so is mine
<coolcmos>
tho i dont think this would cost much for an initial testing
<mrdata_>
what can you do with $100
<coolcmos>
well im thinking a toy laser could do it tho it would need sterpper motors and magnifine glasses tuned to precision with and electromagents cycle
<coolcmos>
and a dust free environment
<coolcmos>
so some sort of plastic enclosure with air filtration
<mrdata_>
mhm
<mrdata_>
hepa filter
<coolcmos>
and probably a controlled moisture system
<mrdata_>
you could make an enclosure with some lumber, perhaps, or acrylic
<coolcmos>
i once bought see thru plasit very think window winter insulation
<mrdata_>
and if that sits on a table, say, you could even fill it with inert gases
<coolcmos>
it would just need to be made into a container with say rubber gloves attatched inward.. but still need to cycle a ventilation system
<mrdata_>
is rubber the right material? it gives off odor
<coolcmos>
i suppose surgical gloves could be used
<coolcmos>
but they are flimsy
<coolcmos>
maybe i could find something on google for better gloves but they are needed
<coolcmos>
most of my thoughts tho are on the system and controls neccesary
<mrdata_>
check chemical compatibility charts
<coolcmos>
and even if this idea does work some of the circuity connecting the transistors can be connected via additional dopping, but there still has to be circuit connectivity that doping might not alot for
<coolcmos>
so im thinking an initial test could be done, without that ... but practical circuits would require metal implantaion i think
<coolcmos>
and i wouldnt know how to do that..
<mrdata_>
usually ion beam implantation; the chamber is evacuated
<coolcmos>
if i coat over with an insulative layer .. it would be fine but upon that layer it needs metal
<mrdata_>
but idk the specifics
<coolcmos>
not sure what your talking about on that
<coolcmos>
ive read books on the process so i do know what you are talking about but not realy certain i understand it in principle
<mrdata_>
ions can be sprayed onto things but atmospheric pressure doesnt have a long enough mean-free path for that
<coolcmos>
oh
<mrdata_>
and if ions hit a surface fast enough, then some of them go into the bulk material a distance
<mrdata_>
microns? not sure
<mrdata_>
nanometers at least
<coolcmos>
yes more concerns
<mrdata_>
so you need to examine micro structure of surfaces for your experiments
<coolcmos>
but i guess thats all going to be reflected in specs like how long a laser beam pitch needs to be pointed at a surface
<coolcmos>
and can the laser be turned on and off fast enough
<coolcmos>
say that i can focus the laser thru a magnifine glass to a small enough pitch to dope a transistor its on off cycle must be precision
<mrdata_>
so, while you think about how to set all this up cheaply, you should take some time to study the physics and chemistry of it, to have a better grasp
<mrdata_>
there is some recent hype about perovskite crystal structure
<coolcmos>
yeah well im far from PHD level.. best level im at is maybe EE380 and some CS401 maybe