jbenet changed the topic of #ipfs to: IPFS - InterPlanetary File System - https://github.com/ipfs/ipfs -- channel logged at https://botbot.me/freenode/ipfs/ -- Code of Conduct: https://github.com/ipfs/community/blob/master/code-of-conduct.md -- Sprints: https://github.com/ipfs/pm/ -- Community Info: https://github.com/ipfs/community/ -- FAQ: https://github.com/ipfs/faq -- Support: https://github.com/ipfs/support
<noffle> that would be terribly slow under the current impl though
<codehero> oh, true
<domanic> noffle, codehero you can use merkle trees to have streamable hashes
<codehero> i wonder how that bittorrent live streaming thing is going
<domanic> actually, you can use merkle trees to prove that any chunk in a file is actually part of that file, without needing the entire file
<noffle> domanic: re-publish the head of the dag over and over again, right?
<codehero> hm. apparently they have an android app
<domanic> noffle, for streaming writes, yes basically
<noffle> so your video ends up looking like this as merkle nodes: (chunk-0) <- (chunk-1) <- (chunk-2) <- ... where the server keeps on appending to the end of the dag so far
<domanic> streaming reads (like bittorrent) are easier
<noffle> domanic: how do streaming reads work for live streaming?
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<ipfsbot> [go-ipfs] whyrusleeping created fix/bump-kvalue (+1 new commit): https://git.io/vgr4g
<ipfsbot> go-ipfs/fix/bump-kvalue 0396fb9 Jeromy: bump kvalue from 10 to 20...
<domanic> noffle, it's simpler to look at the way bit torrent does it
<domanic> and then generalize to merkle trees
<domanic> bittorrent takes a file and breaks it up into (say) 1000 pieces
<ipfsbot> [go-ipfs] whyrusleeping opened pull request #2327: bump kvalue from 10 to 20 (master...fix/bump-kvalue) https://git.io/vgr4X
<domanic> which is what goes in the torrent file
<domanic> then you hash that file - well except for the tracker bit, but minor detail - and in BT this is called the "infohash"
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<domanic> if you have the info hash, you can check the torrent file
<domanic> and if you have the torrent file you can verify the hash of any block
<domanic> SO, you just grab the torrent file, then can request the blocks in more or less any order
<noffle> domanic: this sounds like the case for streaming static data
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<domanic> noffle, correct. that is the best you can do it bittorrent
<noffle> we're talking about live data streaming -- are we on the same page?
<domanic> noffle, right. a streaming write.
<domanic> noffle, basically for mutable data you need signatures
<noffle> I think we're talking about the same thing -- your terminology threw me off
<noffle> 'streaming read' to mean static data and 'streaming write' to mean live data
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<noffle> once we have fast pubsub this might be pretty doable -- publishing new dag heads could be really quick
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<sobr> i'm working to add ipfs support to an application that can pull from either ipfs or http. Is it acceptable to use ipfs://QmXdnejyZ1v4uFrA27tQAcYoZyh3Ve7By5v6jXgeAn7rqK as a URI to differentiate where to pull from on the back-end?
<lgierth> sobr: use fs:/ipfs/<hash>
<codehero> i think livestreaming support would be really great for ipfs adoption
<sobr> 10-4, thx
<noffle> sobr: there's a huge discussion on that: https://github.com/ipfs/go-ipfs/issues/1678
<codehero> as it allows you to cut out any middle man regarding streaming. if you have enough viewers
<codehero> or people with servers who'd like to act as relays
<lgierth> sobr: long answer is here, start reading at the bottom, it's quite lengthy: https://github.com/ipfs/go-ipfs/issues/1678
<noffle> codehero: agreed that'd be excellent :)
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<codehero> and there's no free software that can achieve this
<codehero> not even the bittorrent streaming is available to the public
<jbenet> noffle: there's a bunch of streaming examples somewhere -- basically when you govern the graph, you just need to keep an updated head, and send new head updates to peers that are already listening to the stream
<jbenet> noffle: as you said, easy over pub/sub
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<noffle> found https://github.com/ipfs/ipfs/issues/103, looking for more
<M-zick> how to use "object put" with help go-ipfs-api?
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<jbenet> i had made one with a tree but i dont think that one has survived
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<noffle> <3 diagrams
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<whyrusleeping> oooo, bumped the kvalue to 20
<whyrusleeping> published a record on my local node
<whyrusleeping> resolved it on mars in 2 seconds
<lgierth> :)
<lgierth> it's 20 pretty specific nodes right?
<whyrusleeping> right
<lgierth> ones close to your key?
<whyrusleeping> yeap
<lgierth> will it just take the 20 closest it already knows, or dial more? (what if there are not enough nodes in the whole network which are ~close enough)
<lgierth> i'm pretty sure i asked that same stuff months ago in a hangout...
<whyrusleeping> it will start with the 20 closest it already knows
<whyrusleeping> then it will search for more
<whyrusleeping> and if it cant find enough, it will call what it has good enough (aka, searched the entire network)
<lgierth> cool
<lgierth> and 2 seconds -- yay!
<whyrusleeping> yeap!
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<ipfsbot> [go-ipfs] whyrusleeping deleted fix/bump-kvalue at 0396fb9: https://git.io/vgrzu
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<jbenet> whyrusleeping i recall running into problems when kvalue was bumped up? (i also think we should just bump it up to 20 or higher)
<whyrusleeping> jbenet: the problems before were that finding 20 nodes on the network wasnt an easy task
<whyrusleeping> and our nat traversal wasnt as good the last time i tried this
<lgierth> did you test it on dev040 back then? because the v04x network might have been tiny
<jbenet> whyrusleeping ok sgtm
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<lgierth> ipns publish is probably also a great way to introduce yourself to others
<lgierth> other nodes
<lgierth> Kubuxu: check this out ^
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<lgierth> whyrusleeping: which number does ipfs-dht use?
<whyrusleeping> lgierth: it should be 20 if you rebuild
<lgierth> ok cool
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<ipfsbot> [webui] greenkeeperio-bot opened pull request #241: Update enzyme to version 2.0.0
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<noffle> domanic, codehero: turns out substack is currently doing just this (live streaming) using this kind of approach using hyperlog and webtorrent
<codehero> oh really?
<noffle> bittorrent doesn't have merkle dags built in, so he's using hyperlog (https://github.com/mafintosh/hyperlog) as the merkle dag + replication layer
<noffle> basically all the same tech as ipfs though, layered differently
<noffle> pretty cool
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<substack> and swarmlog to pipe the hyperlogs of the publisher and followers together
<jbenet> substack: have you looked into cjdns?
<substack> I had some housemates who were really into it
<substack> I haven't used it though
<jbenet> substack: and the rising fc00 standard
<jbenet> substack we'll be implementing it in go, if you impl in js, we can have packet switching overlays across tcp, udp/*, webrtc, websockets, ble, audio, ...
<jbenet> lgierth: is there a spec for it? or is that in progress?
<substack> oh nice!
<lgierth> making baby steps
<jbenet> https://github.com/fc00/spec guess it's going
<jbenet> substack: cjdns has a ref impl in c++
<lgierth> there is a slightly outdated whitepaper and project-goals doc, which still caputes the essence of it very well
<M-mubot> substack: cjdns has a ref impl in c has 1 point
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<lgierth> C
<jbenet> ah C*
<lgierth> i made a rump http://fc00.io/ yesterday
<substack> how does cjdns handle assigning addresses?
<jbenet> public keys :
<jbenet> and some truncation
<kpcyrd> substack: hash the public key
<lgierth> yeah first 16 bytes of the double sha512 of your pubkey, is your ipv6
<jbenet> and assigns under the ipv6 prefix fc00
<lgierth> yeah it brute-forces until it gets one starting in fc x)
<jbenet> ah nice
<substack> and its routing algorithm scales to decent levels?
<jbenet> not to what we want yet, but i think it's up to thousands of nodes, right lgierth?
<jbenet> we need millions
<jbenet> but that's where all the stuff we discussed comes in (hierachical approaches, etc)
<jbenet> am sure cjd would help nail those as they become a problem.
<substack> right
<lgierth> about 541 right now
<lgierth> map at https://www.fc00.org/
<jbenet> substack: lgierth and i were talking about making a fc00 conf to lay out what needs to get done this year to make it all work around squatconf
<noffle> jbenet: oh cool
<lgierth> *641
<lgierth> yes! and i wanna have some spec work done until then, so that there's a good base for discussion
<jbenet> lgierth let's make sure to allocate time for it in the Q1 roadmap stuff
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<lgierth> yeah i actually have that written down right next to infrastructure :):)
<lgierth> cryptoauth spec, switch spec
<jbenet> right <3
<lgierth> i don't think i'll get a workable spec down for routing until squatconf
<lgierth> but routing is kinda arbitrary anyhow
<lgierth> the switch is happy if you put any route label on the packet
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<codehero> i wonder how well ipfs would run on the raspberry pi zero
<codehero> oh wait
<codehero> it doesn't have network
<codehero> lol
<codehero> riiight
<lgierth> you can do networking over usb
<lovelaced> i wanna try it on the CHIP
<redfish> codehero: I run ipfs on a different armv7 board -- smooth sailing
<lovelaced> just for dev
<lovelaced> and some pogoplugs w/ALARM
<ipfsbot> [go-ipfs] RichardLitt force-pushed feature/capitalise-tokens from 102b872 to 8f6e02a: https://git.io/vgr10
<ipfsbot> go-ipfs/feature/capitalise-tokens 8f6e02a Richard Littauer: Capitalized `Tokens`...
<lgierth> anyone of you tried openwrt and ipfs?
<codehero> redfish: oh cool :) because it'd be nice if i could actually host stuff on ipfs :D
<ipfsbot> [go-ipfs] RichardLitt force-pushed feature/capitalise-tokens from 8f6e02a to 0c830df: https://git.io/vgr10
<ipfsbot> go-ipfs/feature/capitalise-tokens 0c830df Richard Littauer: Capitalized `Tokens`...
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<codehero> openwrt would also be great. especially since you could make a gateway available to each connected device
<lovelaced> i've been speccing myself a storage server composed of a router + pogoplugs hooked to SSDs which would all share a filesystem w/IPFS
<lovelaced> low power
<lovelaced> might be interesting.
<redfish> lgierth: just curious, why cjdns is being re-implemented instead of just using the IPv6 tunnel exported by the existing cjdns node (without ipfs needed to know anything at all about cjdns)?
<lgierth> cjdns is nicely separated into layers, and we can use quite a few of them directly in ipfs
<lgierth> regardless of the ipv6 and iptunnel layers
<lgierth> the switch and routing are particularly interesting for ipfs's swarm
<lgierth> they'd end all our NAT troubles
<redfish> oh, i thought IPv6 was central to cjdns, but I must be wrong (ddidn't study it in detail)
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<lgierth> ipv6 is just the shiny tip of the iceberg :)
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<redfish> right, it is somehow supposed to link over various physical transports, which is below an IP stack. Anyway, will read. Thx.
<lovelaced> starting to work on some cluster benchmarking jbenet cc: lgierth whyrusleeping ion
<lovelaced> if there's any specific metrics you guys want to see let me know
<lgierth> lovelaced: oh cool!
<lovelaced> i've got potentially 1k nodes under my belt I can wrangle so
<lgierth> adding a file on A, time to retrieval on B
<noffle> lgierth: could you summarize how cjdns evades nat problems? even symmetric?
<lgierth> same for publishing
<lovelaced> hm, I'm not quite sure how publishing actually works, still cutting my teeth on all this
<lovelaced> example command?
<lgierth> noffle: you don't have to directly connect the other node -- you are connected via other nodes
<lgierth> suppose A [nat] B - C [nat] D
<noffle> lgierth: oh, it uses relays to route -- neat
<lgierth> err A [nat] B [] C [nat] D
<lgierth> yeah it figures out a path through all the peerings, adds that to the packet, and hands it to its switch
<lgierth> lovelaced: publishing as in IPNS
<noffle> how well connected are nodes? do you end up with long lived supernodes?
<lovelaced> Thank you noffle
<lovelaced> this is perfect
<noffle> \o/
<noffle> whyrusleeping did a good job covering the common usage Qs
<lgierth> noffle: it's similar to ipfs bootstrapping, you need to find out the peer's address, pubkey, (and an auth method) -- but there is a list of public peers with public auth info, and discovery using ethernet broadcast on the local network
<lovelaced> I'm definitely going to see how ipfs performs within a single rack vs single datacenter vs between datacenters
<noffle> lgierth: do you end up with a kademlia-like topology (if that makes sense)
<lgierth> noffle: here's a life map: https://www.fc00.org/
<lgierth> not sure
<noffle> lgierth: very cool
<lgierth> every edge on that map is made by a peering agreement, or public peering, or local discovery
<noffle> lgierth: thanks for the background
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<jbenet> lovelaced: the metrics will absolutely suck for a while
<jbenet> lovelaced: at least cluster metrics will. but getting it setup so that we can run metrics reports would be huge
<lovelaced> Yeah, no worries, I just want to get something set up for testing
<lovelaced> for sure
<jbenet> lovelaced: if we can deploy new binaries and test them, that would be a big deal
<jbenet> run through a set of benchmarks and automatically produce a report with graphs
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<jbenet> would be fantastic to get us to fix all the things
<lovelaced> I love graphs so
<lovelaced> sounds perfect.
<lovelaced> I'm working on my bootstrap and building a binary to ship to the nodes atm.
<lovelaced> (since I don't want it world-accessible)
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<jbenet> yep, sgtm.
<lovelaced> I could do this more "easily" with docker but... I don't want to go 'through' docker if i'm wanting some raw data
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<lovelaced> but yeah, if you guys want any specific metrics let me know (since you definitely know 'problem areas' better than I)
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<jbenet> lovelaced: i think there's some discussions on github of things to try, but if you cant find a list, start one and we'll generate ideas
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<lovelaced> cheers, I'll poke around a bunch
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<ipfsbot> [go-ipfs] whyrusleeping created feat/parallel-pub (+1 new commit): https://git.io/vgrN0
<ipfsbot> go-ipfs/feat/parallel-pub e8f48f1 Jeromy: put pubkey and ipns entry to dht in parallel...
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<ipfsbot> [go-ipfs] whyrusleeping opened pull request #2328: put pubkey and ipns entry to dht in parallel (master...feat/parallel-pub) https://git.io/vgrN2
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<ipfsbot> [go-ipfs] whyrusleeping pushed 1 new commit to feat/promise-fail: https://git.io/vgrhS
<ipfsbot> go-ipfs/feat/promise-fail ff3373a Jeromy: don't fail promises that already succeeded...
<ipfsbot> [go-ipfs] whyrusleeping force-pushed feat/promise-fail from ff3373a to 46152f2: https://git.io/vgrhH
<ipfsbot> go-ipfs/feat/promise-fail b222d2d Jeromy: allow promises to fail...
<ipfsbot> go-ipfs/feat/promise-fail 46152f2 Jeromy: don't fail promises that already succeeded...
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<ipfsbot> [go-ipfs] whyrusleeping pushed 1 new commit to feat/parallel-pub: https://git.io/vgoev
<ipfsbot> go-ipfs/feat/parallel-pub 58cba8a Jeromy: cleanup waitfunc...
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<haad> good morning!
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<noffle> haad: o/
<noffle> whyrusleeping: your https://github.com/ipfs/go-ipfs/pull/2328 inspired me to write my first go lib: https://github.com/noffle/parallel
<noffle> surprised that I couldn't find anything like it really on github
<noffle> I'm suspecting it's "go style" to just write the thing from scratch every time you need it
<noffle> but that seems wasteful / error prone
<noffle> than having a well tested single lib that just works
<haad> noffle: o/
<haad> noffle: just read your reply on pubsub. should I keep commenting on it? it sounds like the best first-approach would be to dicard the linked lists and just focus on delivering messages (out-of-order), then add the ordering as another layer on top of pubsub (call it event log or message queue instead of pubsub). what's your take?
<noffle> haad: yep that's where my thinking is at too
<haad> noffle: as a side note, it's all something I'm working on currently for OrbitDB (see https://github.com/haadcode/orbit-db/tree/feature/pubsub). what I've learned so far is that the message ordering is not trivial but if/when you get it right, it opens up a *lot* of opportunities.
<haad> noffle: right now I'm mocking the ipfs pubsub with redis and it's only used as a transport layer (see PubSub.js). everything else in the codebase is related to, well, message ordering (and some) :)
<noffle> I mean, if history is allowed to be slow, peers can opportunistically read links backwards until the dag is fleshed out fully
<dyce> is there any issues with the gateway right now?
<haad> noffle: do you still need input on the pubsub spec or can you start working on it based on what we have so far?
<noffle> haad: orbit-db is tied to orbit-server? it might be nice to have more generic single-purpose components (ipfs-kvpair, ipfs-event-log) that made minimally few usage assumptions so they can serve as powerful building blocks for many kinds of ipfs apps
<noffle> haad: I think we've reached consensus
<noffle> that make*
<haad> noffle: that's my goal with it. in the feat/pubsub branch orbit-server is not needed anymore and so orbit-db is fully stand-alone (except for the redis-server that it needs to connect to for pubsub communication)
<noffle> yeah I'm having a bit of trouble sorting through it all in its current state; separating orbit-specific stuff and general purpose pieces
<noffle> but that sounds good
<haad> noffle: ie. orbit-server will be made obsolete and the only thing you'll need is orbit-db. orbit-db I reckon can a massively important building block for apps as it's essentially a globally (ipfs network) wide database that doesn't require a server to get started/used.
<noffle> is cli the optimal interface for your use case? or is a go lib better?
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<haad> noffle: right now I'm thinking lib
<noffle> it shouldn't be hard to have a go lib that exposes a cli and a simple public api
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<haad> noffle: oh you meant for pubsub? for that I reckon cli will be a good ux
<noffle> yes for pubsub
<haad> noffle: but ideally it'd be available the go-ipfs HTTP API so we can hook the bindings to it (eg. js-ipfs-api)
<haad> *in
<haad> sorry, confused your question to orbit
<noffle> I see why that'd be desirable, though I'm hesitant to add it to the official api, since this is just an application-layer experiment
<noffle> unstable api
<noffle> don't want others to dep on core for it yet
<haad> noffle: on that note, you can disregard orbit-spcific stuff from the pubsub spec. at the end of the day, orbit just needs subscribe() and publish()
<noffle> but the pubsub tool could expose an http api
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<haad> noffle: yeah I reckon we can keep it separate, at least till we see how it pans out
<noffle> haad: I'm about to go offline for the night -- anything else you wanted to discuss?
<haad> noffle: all good! :) have a good night!
<haad> noffle: just wanted to make sure you can move on with the pubsub
<noffle> haad: awesome! I'm just blocked on other work I need to get done before I can fiddle with pubsub :)
<noffle> but maybe in another sprint or two
<noffle> s/sprint/week
<haad> sounds good
<dignifiedquire> noffle: haad nice work on getting pubsub rolling, reading those logs sounds promising :)
<haad> dignifiedquire: hey O/ long time no see
<haad> and yeah, hopefully we can get something working soon enough
<haad> I *need* the feature ;)
<dignifiedquire> that's the best motivation :)
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<dignifiedquire> likewise, I haven't looked closely at orbit again though, but from the sound of it the cool stuff is happening in orbit/db now?
<haad> dignifiedquire: I've been on holiday the past 6 weeks or so, but I did get orbit-db forked out of Orbit and expect it to be pretty sweet eventually :)
<haad> build apps using ipfs database sounds pretty good to me :)
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<dignifiedquire> oh yeah
<dignifiedquire> especially with replication into the browser that's really sweet
<haad> dignifiedquire: how about you? saw you've been working on the webui, good stuff there!
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<dignifiedquire> yeah working on different things here and there, shipped dist.ipfs.io and working on signed builds for that
<dignifiedquire> also webui refactor for the data layer so it's less brittle
<daviddias> mornin' people :)
<haad> dignifiedquire: what's your opinion on redux now that you've used it?
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<daviddias> voxelot: I had a revelation!
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<dignifiedquire> daviddias: good morning ☀️
<dignifiedquire> haad: pretty good, the best I have so far seen in react land
<daviddias> dignifiedquire: o/
<dignifiedquire> daviddias: what revelation?
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<daviddias> how to make data importing more nice internally
<dignifiedquire> nice
<dignifiedquire> are you rewriting it in rust :P
<daviddias> ahahaha
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<daviddias> how is stuff going, having fun at the webui dignifiedquire ?
<dignifiedquire> made progress on logs, getting close to finishing that (had to fight with streams again...)
<dignifiedquire> all with tests and stuff :)
<dignifiedquire> but today I need to take care of paper work for my time in between jobs, and the doing some hard thinking on research work
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<dignifiedquire> have you made any progress in that area?
<daviddias> I'm not sure what you mean
<daviddias> btw, on streams being awesome, there is this talk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lQAV3bPOYHo , now a bit dated, but very motivating nevertheless :)
<dignifiedquire> I read all the stream things from substack, they are not awesome...
<dignifiedquire> but not going to rant today :) I'm in a good mood and there are better alternatives out there like pull streams and rxjs observables :)
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<Kubuxu> whyrusleeping: thanks for that patch, it is much quicker now, I will still pursue two stage cache idea of mine, I will write about it in spec repo, we should be able to improve UX with zero loss of consistency and it will allow for controllable consistency vs UX.
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<Kubuxu> whyrusleeping: If I get green light on it I will implement it.
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<Kubuxu> lgierth: if we could rewrite cjdns to go (fc00) it would solve all problems with relaying. It might be the endgame.
<deltab> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J9_VaU4N3Rg - dotJS 2014 - James Halliday (substack) - Immutable offline webapps [16 min]: web apps, authentication, and databases, without servers
<substack> ^ working on a reboot of some of that stack currently
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<jbenet> substack: good stuff.
<jbenet> substack domanic: "cipherwizard" or maybe "ciphermage"
<jbenet> Kubuxu point me to your proposal? i can review it
<haad> substack: that site version thingy is awesome!
<Kubuxu> jbenet: just witting it
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<haad> substack: since you're re-working the stack, take a look at https://github.com/haadcode/orbit-db (similar to your forkdb but on ipfs) and see if you have a use case for it
<substack> my reboot of forkdb is http://npmjs.com/package/hyperkv
<substack> much simpler, based on hyperlogs
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<Kubuxu> : IPFS in browser, here he mentions using shared webworker for communication inside browser itself, I think we could use something like that when it comes to websites providing IPFS node with them: https://youtu.be/J9_VaU4N3Rg?t=7m51s
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<haad> substack: what does hyperlog use as a transport protocol?
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<substack> haad: the next version will use swarmlog
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<substack> and the swarmlog is going to have magnet links in it
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<Kubuxu> whyrusleeping: thanks for this patch, it is 4 seconds now after initial connection with peers (first one was 25 because you have to dial them).
<daviddias> sweet, is swarmlog going to do routing on top of the DataChannels, substack?
<substack> it uses a signalhub right now
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<daviddias> we probably can get hyperkv working on top of the ipfs object API too, replicating on read
<substack> I'm waiting for somebody to figure out the routing system
<substack> yes, hyperlogs should be relatively transferrable to different mutable feeds
<daviddias> I started a reboot of webrtc-explorer (the chord inspired routing scheme) to make it work in both Node.js and the Browser, but defered it a bit since wrtc is not currently working with the latest Node. I should get back to it on this weekend and refresh the browser part. Now it is even more fun to test since we can electron-spawn a bunch of browsers very
<daviddias> quickly (before I was spawning browser tabs to test the routing)
<daviddias> substack: for the magnet links, if you use multihashes (or both) for the keys, then we can resolve them on IPFS context as well
<substack> I'm waiting for the webrtc js version to ship
<substack> then I'll include ipfs and webtorrent links
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<daviddias> roger :)
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<ipfsbot> [go-ipfs] cryptix closed pull request #1917: Fix/compliant writable gw (master...fix/compliantWritableGW) https://git.io/vl3gt
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<richardlitt> good morning :)
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<dignifiedquire> good afternoon richardlitt
<richardlitt> :)
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<Ape> Is there a memory leak in go-ipfs? My daemon took 1.5 GB memory and after a restart it only takes 67 MB
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<ion> Offtopic but probably interesting to everyone: LIGO announcement about to happen https://youtu.be/c7293kAiPZw
<Stskeeps> the chat is curious
<Kubuxu> thanks
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<richardlitt> Darn.
<richardlitt> How do I update IPFS to 0.4 agian
<Kubuxu> richardlitt: you need ipfs-repo-migration
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<richardlitt> Kubuxu: Where can I get that?
<richardlitt> ah, you mean fs-repo-migration
<Kubuxu> yeah
<richardlitt> Kubuxu: Still at ipfs 0.3.10 :/
<Kubuxu> and now just install new ipfs
<Kubuxu> IDK where you have it installed
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<richardlitt> huh
<richardlitt> So...
<Kubuxu> I suspect you are using Mac, IDK anything about macs :|
<Kubuxu> How are you starting ipfs?
<richardlitt> I run ipfs
<richardlitt> I just used the gobuilder to install.
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<Kubuxu> In console or from UI?
<richardlitt> console.
<Kubuxu> run 'which ipfs'
<richardlitt> : /usr/local/bin/ipfs
<Kubuxu> download IPFS from dist.ipfs.io and place it there
<Kubuxu> it will work
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<richardlitt> Kubuxu: Yeah, that's the install script does currently.
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<Kubuxu> ahh, forgot about it
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<Kubuxu> did it work?
<richardlitt> Well, now I have 0.3.11
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<richardlitt> Still not 0.4
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<richardlitt> I am going to try ipfs-update
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<richardlitt> Ahhh it's a binary
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<Kubuxu> richardlitt: you have to download it from here: http://dist.ipfs.io/go-ipfs/v0.4.0-dev
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<richardlitt> Kubuxu: Ok, that worked
<richardlitt> but... where was that even linked?
<richardlitt> Why didn't ipfs-update or fs-repo-migrations work?
<Kubuxu> "All versions"
<Kubuxu> because 0.4 wasn't yet released
<Kubuxu> fs-repo-migrations migrates only data located on disk
<richardlitt> ok
<richardlitt> Good call with the versions issue, too.
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<richardlitt> Is there any way to use ipfs edge?
<richardlitt> As in, have master as my IPFS instance?
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<lidel> ion, thanks for the LIGO link, super cool
<ion> verily
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<Kubuxu> richardlitt: you need to have go installed
<richardlitt> Kubuxu: I have go installed
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<Kubuxu> ok then:
<Kubuxu> go get -d github.com/ipfs/go-ipfs
<Kubuxu> cd $GOPATH/src/github.com/ipfs/go-ipfs
<Kubuxu> make install
<Kubuxu> and you need to have "$GOPATH/bin" in your $PATH variable
<Kubuxu> and remove /usr/local/bin/ipfs
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<brand0> does anyone know the origin of the ipfs logo? jbenet perhaps?
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<ipfsbot> [webui] greenkeeperio-bot opened pull request #242: Update three to version 0.74.0
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<daviddias> duuuuuuuuuudeeeeeeeeeeee
<daviddias> fuuuuuuuu
<daviddias> whyrusleeping: are you there?
<richardlitt> :D
<dignifiedquire> daviddias: so bad?
<daviddias> ahahahah
<daviddias> I need to confirm, but essentially leaf unixFS nodes are being declared as 'file' type also and not as 'raw'
<daviddias> and maybe that is even intentional and 'raw' was deprecated
<daviddias> but I was completely clueless for a bit, doing tests for everything, data was the same, links were the same, but the serialized version was different
<daviddias> and it was because of the unixFS type
<daviddias> it was like debugging with needles, checking bytes on encoded data
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<dignifiedquire> sounds like fun ;)
<daviddias> ahah it is indeed :D
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<noffle> jbenet: what is "line switching" in the context of https://github.com/ipfs/notes/issues/110 ?
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<The_8472> i think it's telco-analogy. packet switched vs. circuit switch network
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<daviddias> exactly, a lot of our current transports are circuit switched because they break if the path established goes away
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<noffle> daviddias: this is in the context of routing restrictions placed by nats, right?
<daviddias> yes, so, in order to defeat NATs you can use relays
<daviddias> and in order to defaut multiple NATs you can have multiple relays
<daviddias> this requires a ton of configuration and probably all of those relays are dependent of each other, if one goes down, so goes your connection
<noffle> hence there being a "line" between you and a peer
<noffle> got it
<daviddias> if you scale to N relays, where N is virtually any number, then you have to have some kind of criteria to know which relays to relay to
<daviddias> and that is when 'routing' comes along
<daviddias> awesome :)
<ipfsbot> [go-ipfs] RichardLitt created feature/capitalize-could (+1 new commit): https://git.io/vg6VF
<ipfsbot> go-ipfs/feature/capitalize-could 79aa420 Richard Littauer: Capitalized could
<ipfsbot> [go-ipfs] RichardLitt opened pull request #2330: Capitalized could (master...feature/capitalize-could) https://git.io/vg6wg
<noffle> daviddias: this sounds like the premise of fc00
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<ipfsbot> [go-ipfs] RichardLitt force-pushed feature/capitalize-could from 79aa420 to 59a98a8: https://git.io/vg6rr
<ipfsbot> go-ipfs/feature/capitalize-could 59a98a8 Richard Littauer: Capitalized could...
<daviddias> yes :)
<daviddias> also, babel, OSLR, batman-adv, 11s
<daviddias> historically, routing has been done through manual configuration
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<daviddias> 'now', we learned that entities on the network have behaviour patterns and that we can define metrics to cluster them
<daviddias> also, portability of the identifier is very important
<daviddias> and if that identifier is about the process and not of the host, then we can have things that move in the network freely without having to report back where they are
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<daviddias> (this topic is awesomeness everywhere :D)
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<ipfsbot> [go-ipfs] whyrusleeping deleted feature/capitalize-could at 59a98a8: https://git.io/vg6MN
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<ipfsbot> [go-ipfs] whyrusleeping pushed 1 new commit to feat/parallel-pub: https://git.io/vg6dj
<ipfsbot> go-ipfs/feat/parallel-pub abadc94 Jeromy: fix race conditions in tests...
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<noffle> no https option for local daemon gateway?
<Kubuxu> noffle: not possible, you would need to tell users to accept selfsigned cert which is bad practice
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<noffle> Kubuxu: why can't users bring their own certs in?
<Kubuxu> you can't get certs for localhost
<noffle> I'm not talking about localhost (sorry, "local" was a poor word choice)
<Kubuxu> Then use nginx. IMHO
<noffle> wanted to differentiate between ipfs.io gateway and the daemon a user runs
<Kubuxu> Someone running web-server probably already runs it.
<noffle> nginx just for https? that's excessive
<Kubuxu> Why, I run nginx just for http in most cases.
<Kubuxu> If I run something public
<noffle> it's a very heavy many-case piece of software for such a simple task
<noffle> I don't want to run a big fully fledged webserver just for https
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<noffle> and expecting downstream users to do so is unreasonable
<brand0> that's your only option right now
<Kubuxu> It is 3MB installation, nginx is really small when you look at it really.
<Kubuxu> ipfs is 27MB
<noffle> you can write an https proxy in node in under a hundred lines of code -- you don't need a 3mb webserver with daemon
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<noffle> even in golang it's tiny
<Kubuxu> Look at how big node is...
<Kubuxu> And its memory footprint
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<Kubuxu> We have different definitions of small and big
<pfraze> yeah 28mb is pretty impressive, nowadays
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<pfraze> 27*
<Kubuxu> nodejs is 12M
<noffle> it's about using a do-everything tool like nginx vs specialized tools that do one thing well
<Kubuxu> nginx is specialized tool for the job
<noffle> grab bags like nginx have both system and cognitive bloat
<Kubuxu> It is specialized front-end server, you run only things you have in config nothing more, nothing less.
<Evermore> I don't mind the disk space as much as I mind that IPFS (last time I used it) was so RAM-heavy
<Kubuxu> Niginx in memory 800K
<Evermore> Maybe the new updates fixed it though
<Kubuxu> And it is nginx proxying about 7 sites
<Kubuxu> Simple server in node (just small API connecting to mongo) 50M RAM
<Kubuxu> nginx is tiny
<noffle> download and install nginx, setup the daemon, figure out how to write the config files vs npm i -g https-proxy
<noffle> convention over configuration helps reduce cognitive load
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<Kubuxu> pacman -S nginx && vim /etc/nginx/nginx.cong && systemctl enable --now nginx
<noffle> much easier / less error prone -- typo already spotted 'nginx.cong'
<noffle> that's a lot of pieces to memorize
<noffle> and not mess up
<Kubuxu> How you add your https-proxy to autostart?
<noffle> I don't need a long-lived daemon that autostarts
<Kubuxu> This means if your server reboots for some reasons all your services are down :/
<noffle> I'm not running services
<noffle> I'm testing something that I need an https gateway for
<noffle> and don't want to install a big webserver application
<brand0> you could have been done with it by now with the nginx solution
<Kubuxu> Ok, then we again are talking about something differnt.
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<noffle> brand0: I did it 10 mins ago with https-proxy
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<Kubuxu> When you told me about bringing your own certs I went the public service route.
<brand0> okay so discussion over
<Kubuxu> yup
<noffle> longer term it makes sense to expose an https option on ipfs daemon and let users bring their own certs in
<noffle> than to push a dep like nginx on them
<Kubuxu> This is how you create bloatware, if there is specialized software for some task why put it into your software. If someone wants to run HTTPS with their own certs either way they probably have to run some other server first to get them, this other server probably was nginx.
<noffle> the ipfs command is already bloatware
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<Kubuxu> It is set of tools.
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<noffle> eventually we'll break the gateway out into its own separate piece
<Kubuxu> Yup, now it is part of the daemon.
<noffle> correct
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<Kubuxu> But first IMHO higher performance internal communication protocol should be implemented.
<Kubuxu> Unix sockets come to mind
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<noffle> proposal + roadmap discussion to get gx-go packages compatible with 'go get': https://github.com/whyrusleeping/gx-go/issues/2
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<ipfsbot> [go-ipfs] chriscool created appveyor-fixes (+1 new commit): https://git.io/vgi0N
<ipfsbot> go-ipfs/appveyor-fixes 7ead89e Christian Couder: appveyor: desactivate parallel builds...
<ipfsbot> [go-ipfs] chriscool opened pull request #2332: appveyor: desactivate parallel builds (master...appveyor-fixes) https://git.io/vgiEv
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<Kubuxu> whyrusleeping: I would love to hear your opinion on https://github.com/ipfs/specs/issues/74
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<ipfsbot> [go-ipfs] chriscool force-pushed appveyor-fixes from 7ead89e to 5c590d5: https://git.io/vgiwy
<ipfsbot> go-ipfs/appveyor-fixes 5c590d5 Christian Couder: appveyor: disable parallel builds...
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<whyrusleeping> man, i missed seattle internet: https://ipfs.pics/ipfs/QmeE3RmoBUQaMTC5hTue9f952G9ykCpDf2PcZeyQ9vtTBn
<whyrusleeping> sitting pretty far away from the router, with 50% signal strength
<cSmith> >very unsatisfied
<cSmith> me too
<whyrusleeping> lol
<cSmith> i have comcast as 1 in speedtest
<cSmith> 1/5 that is
<whyrusleeping> yeah
<whyrusleeping> centurylink is a bit better
<whyrusleeping> not as big of assholes to their customers
<cSmith> yeah
<whyrusleeping> but i'm not complaining about being able to find gigabit wifi on every block
<ipfsbot> [go-ipfs] chriscool pushed 1 new commit to appveyor-fixes: https://git.io/vgi9U
<ipfsbot> go-ipfs/appveyor-fixes db32a28 Christian Couder: appveyor: add %GOPATH%\bin to the PATH...
<ipfsbot> [go-ipfs] whyrusleeping closed pull request #2328: put pubkey and ipns entry to dht in parallel (master...feat/parallel-pub) https://git.io/vgrN2
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<ipfsbot> [go-ipfs] palkeo opened pull request #2333: Remove headers for « ipfs object links ». (master...master) https://git.io/vgiHo
<palkeo> first pull request :) (to delete one line :p)
<ipfsbot> [go-ipfs] chriscool force-pushed appveyor-fixes from db32a28 to d88afc2: https://git.io/vgiwy
<ipfsbot> go-ipfs/appveyor-fixes d88afc2 Christian Couder: appveyor: add %GOPATH%\bin to the PATH...
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<palkeo> oh, does anybody know why when I do « ipfs cat whatever », it runs forever ? (and I have to ctrl-C to cancel)
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<palkeo> even for whatever being, like, /ipns/ipfs.io (which is valid and for which data are present)
<M-zick> whyrusleeping (IRC): can I transfer hash with help address protocol? between host.go and client.go (custom service)?
<whyrusleeping> M-zick: hrm? you can send anything you want over a custom protocol
<whyrusleeping> palkeo: not sure, how long is 'forever'?
<palkeo> whyrusleeping: more than 10 minutes ?
<whyrusleeping> palkeo: yeah... thats way too long
<whyrusleeping> i'm working on a 'verbose' flag for ipfs cat (and others) that will give you a realtime printout of what its doing
<whyrusleeping> otherwise, i'd have to think that theres something wrong with your firewall
<whyrusleeping> does 'ipfs swarm peers' show anything?
<palkeo> yep, 84 peers
<palkeo> and ipfs log tail show frequent activity
<palkeo> (also, yesterday and today my router crashed in a very strange way after starting ipfs daemon, probably like https://github.com/ipfs/go-ipfs/issues/2234 )
<palkeo> (I'll see if it happen again)
<whyrusleeping> palkeo: does 'ipfs ping QmaCpDMGvV2BGHeYERUEnRQAwe3N8SzbUtfsmvsqQLuvuJ' work?
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<whyrusleeping> and if that works, does 'ipfs cat /ipfs/QmWLrkezYUmdD1s2fQWiwQKdBbdEdh6i5JkGSSykG7FtLh' work?
<palkeo> Ping error: dial attempt failed: misdial to <peer.ID aCpDMG> through /ip4/104.131.131.82/tcp/4001 (got <peer.ID >)
<whyrusleeping> o.o
<whyrusleeping> ipfs version?
<palkeo> oh, 0.3.11… I probably need to update ?
<whyrusleeping> 0.3.11 *should* work...
<palkeo> ok
<whyrusleeping> but if someone on 0.4.0 is sharing a hash, you won't get it
<whyrusleeping> theres a partition there
<whyrusleeping> (won't happen again!)
<palkeo> ok, but 0.4.0 is retro-compatible ?
<palkeo> :)
<palkeo> what's a misdial ? my node couldn't contact that peer ?
<whyrusleeping> 0.4.0 isnt backwards compatible, but we've made sure that its going to be forwards compatible
<palkeo> ok
<whyrusleeping> yeah, a misdial means you dialed that port successfully, but during the handshake you failed to properly communicate
<palkeo> wut
<palkeo> strange
<whyrusleeping> we changed the handshake format to allow for pluggable protocols going forward
<palkeo> ok
<whyrusleeping> the old (0.3.*) handshake was very... rigid
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<palkeo> I see
<palkeo> but my problem isn't related with a version mismatch, right ?
<whyrusleeping> it shouldnt be...
<whyrusleeping> /ipns/ipfs.io *should* be on both networks
<whyrusleeping> ping lgierth
<whyrusleeping> we put a lot of effort into making the transition as smooth as possible, but this is software... something always goes wrong
<palkeo> ok ok :)
<lgierth> nope it's v04x only at the moment
<lgierth> that's what we have the v03x/v04x multiplexing on ipfs.io for, to not replicate stuff
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<whyrusleeping> lgierth: oooh, that explains it then...
<M-zick> whyrusleeping (IRC): somewhere there is an example how to transfer data with help url protocol(I mean corenet.Dial(nd, target, "/this"))? Because I don`t have ideas :(
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<whyrusleeping> M-zick: what are you wanting to do?
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<M-zick> and save this hash in host.go
<whyrusleeping> so, on the client, you can write the hash over on the con you get
<whyrusleeping> you can treat it the same way you would a normal tcp connection
<whyrusleeping> and on the host side, just Read a hash
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<M-zick> hm, thanks!
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<palkeo> yay
<palkeo> it works so well :)
<palkeo> next step : having fun with fuse
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<noffle> palkeo: if you find yourself not having fun with fuse, be sure to file issues on go-ipfs :)
<palkeo> ok :)
<Kubuxu> Heh
<noffle> daviddias: are js-ipfs-merkle-dag nodes encoding to the same bits as go-ipfs? I'm having trouble getting them to match
<Kubuxu> noffle: this might be the issue: https://github.com/ipfs/go-ipfs/issues/2331
<palkeo> oh, also, what's the plan for the JS implementation ? you want to be able to load from IPFS directly from webpages in JS ?
<noffle> palkeo: exactly -- not there yet though
<palkeo> without going through a « relay » node ? completely in P2P ?
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<noffle> Kubuxu: thanks, but it turns out I was conflating 'object' and 'unixfs'
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<noffle> palkeo: right. you can already use js-ipfs-api to use another go-ipfs node
<voxelot> palkeo: the idea for js-ipfs is to have a full node in the browser, this implies users could use a site distributed completely over ipfs without installing anything or knowing they are even using ipfs
<voxelot> if we do it right
<palkeo> cool. But if each time someone loads a webpage you have to bootstrap a node and everything, that will be slow, no ?
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<palkeo> awesome :)
<voxelot> palkeo: also browser nodes won't live a long time so if bitswap gets more complicated they could suffer, a lot of work needs to be done there
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<Kubuxu> It should be possible to use background webworkers to share node along different sites.
<palkeo> ok
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<noffle> palkeo: it def won't be as good as a long-lived node, but it's a stepping stone. eventually having browsers integrate a native ipfs node to be shared across all tabs in native code
<noffle> palkeo: we already use short-lived nodes for things (e.g. ipget, gx) with reasonable performance
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<palkeo> cool, I see :)
<ion> "Requiem for GitHub" http://hintjens.com/blog:111
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<yangwao> hmm
<yangwao> what's state of IPNS?
<whyrusleeping> yangwao: getting better
<whyrusleeping> its usable now
<yangwao> well, just playing with now little bit.. :)
<yangwao> I've missed some ns at cjdns..
<yangwao> well and how I can run my own public gateway?
<yangwao> or just expose ipfs daemon?
<lgierth> yeah just expose :8080
<yangwao> hmm
* yangwao have ideas.
<lgierth> or put nginx in front
<redfish> lgierth: what's the purpose of nginx in front?
<yangwao> not directly hitting ipfs daemon? dunno.
<Kubuxu> using :80 and not only for IPFS
<redfish> ah, clear, thx.
<lgierth> yeah what kubuxu says, and nginx is just way more battle-proof than ipfs
<yangwao> who is controlling that bootstrap peers?
<yangwao> are they somehow signed?
<ion> The developers of go-ipfs choose which set of bootstrap peers go-ipfs comes with. What would be the benefit from signing the list?
<yangwao> get some trust that I'm not mitm'd
<whyrusleeping> yangwao: we control them, and if you trust the binary you downloaded, then you trust the default bootstrap peers
<whyrusleeping> the defaults are hard coded into the init code
<yangwao> hm peer id should be somehow different as other hashes :/
<Kubuxu> yangwao: peer contact info includes hash of public key of that peer
<yangwao> weird, ipfs name resolve as at same machine I've made publish takes too long, any idea why?
<yangwao> isn't should be instant?
<ion> yangwao: Are you suggesting verifying the signature of that list against a key provided independently from go-ipfs?
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<Kubuxu> it check if in other part of network there was not other record for this public key pulished
<yangwao> ion: right, like put it in some namecoin/blockchain whatever, or verify it through some ipfs gateway (dunno if JOSE are in roadmap)
<yangwao> is there list how many peers are out there, globally yet?
<ion> yangwao: What is the attack scenario from mitm you are thinking of?
<Kubuxu> also MitM of swarm peers isn't that bad, only thing attacker could do is just not give you more info, so just kill your connection
<Kubuxu> and as I said, as peer contact info includes hash of pubkey MitM isn't possible from what I can see
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<yangwao> mmm could, just thinking loud
<yangwao> hm why I get two same hashes (or I'm blind)
<yangwao> echo 'Let\'s have some mutable fun!' | ipfs add
<yangwao> added Qmc4Ai8UyeJ9dHfQkvq7HQ1XUpjPtnCfoBM5oTxQyYfchJ Qmc4Ai8UyeJ9dHfQkvq7HQ1XUpjPtnCfoBM5oTxQyYfchJ
<Kubuxu> Normally instead of second hash you would get file name
<Kubuxu> as there is no filename, hash is substituted
<Kubuxu> filename is not stored in resulting block, it would be stored in block of directory
<yangwao> oh, ok :)
<yangwao> mm, I've made ipfs name publish for third time but I've recieving second publish I've made, what could be wrong?
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<yangwao> Is there some wiki how what 'mighty' cache works?
<yangwao> oh, now it works, it took a while :)
<noffle> yangwao: 'it took a while' is the current state of ipns :)
<Kubuxu> It is just plain old 60s cachr
<Kubuxu> ^^
<yangwao> and who could be bootstrap peer, anyone?
<ion> Yes, anyone who is hopefully running a node that has already been bootstrapped.
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<yangwao> mm
<yangwao> whats ipfs-path in when I want do ipfs pin add ?
<yangwao> my peer id?
<yangwao> so every file has unique hash in ipfs network, right?
<deltab> yes, if it has unique content
<deltab> it's the content that gets hashed
<deltab> ipfs pin add -r Qmc4Ai8UyeJ9dHfQkvq7HQ1XUpjPtnCfoBM5oTxQyYfchJ
<yangwao> interesting, I dont see any peers when I go through http://localhost:5001/webui/ but I see through chrome extension that I have 101 peers, also ipfs swarm peers|wc -l gives me 101
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<yangwao> and what's the difference between *add* and *pin add* ?
* yangwao should read manual first.
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<deltab> ipfs add takes some content, puts it into the local store, and calculates its hash
<deltab> ipfs pin add marks the content in the local store so that it doesn't get garbage collected, and fetches it from the network if it isn't already local
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<yangwao> ahm
<yangwao> and how that distribution of content happen? I can provide space to someone else?