<Savish>
I have a question regarding how to do something with threads, I am sending out api requests on multiple threads, should the response on any thread come back as a 500, we should try 5 more times every 10 seconds, if we fail we should send an email to the user and the data back. I have a question on stack: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/28228043/how-would-you-say-retry-if-you-receive-a-500-on-a-thread-in-jruby, but I am unsure how to do
<Savish>
the "retry every 10 seconds, 5 times" part in jruby.... any help would be appreciated
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<JRubyGithub>
[jruby] headius closed issue #2474: truffle artifacts are not on maven central and we have a release repo in jruby-parent.pom http://git.io/AogJqA
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<JRubyGithub>
[jruby] mkristian pushed 1 new commit to test-jossl-0.9.6: http://git.io/FXWS
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<JRubyGithub>
jruby/test-jossl-0.9.6 e963024 Christian Meier: fix the expectations of the jruby-noasm integrity test - no more krypt dependencies
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<kiddoboy>
headius: common model layer with specific controller-view layer for each plataform
<headius>
well that's inconvenient isn't it
<enebo>
no doubt it will be back up soon but yeah :)
<headius>
kiddoboy: view for sure, but ideally not controller
<headius>
isolate UI from app logic as much as possible
<headius>
I guess there's really two tiers of controller though...one for application working with data models, and one for GUI working with data models
<kiddoboy>
headius: right. I totally agree. Details to be discussed.
<kiddoboy>
Is it something that was already discussed by the community?
<kiddoboy>
The idea of this framework?
<kiddoboy>
I would like to move ahead with the actual implementation.
<kiddoboy>
If there is nothing like it yet
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<kiddoboy>
First I was thinking in a framework common to CRuby, jruby and rubinius but given the circunstances maybe we should do it just jruby dependent?
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<kiddoboy>
enebo: I feel honoured with you're feedback as well. And would like to thank you as well for your wonderful work.
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<rtyler>
kiddoboy: cross-platform and cross-domain are a bit different
<rtyler>
there's a number of cross-platform tools for desktop apps
<rtyler>
and Rubymotion for cross-platform mobile apps
<rtyler>
but going across all is a big ask
<headius>
honestly if you want to go across all, a web GUI is going to be by far the easiest
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<kiddoboy>
rtyler: Can you point me out for some of those cross-platform tools for the desktop?
<kiddoboy>
headius: I'm aware of that.
<kiddoboy>
I wouldn't do anything by my one. It should be a community project. If there is no will in the community then it is not worthy.
<kiddoboy>
Is it feasible? (this is one question)
<kiddoboy>
How hard it will be to create?
<kiddoboy>
How hard it will be to maintain.
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<kiddoboy>
Will it give ruby an added value?
<kiddoboy>
I know all the effort is right now in improving performance and adding more features
<kiddoboy>
Rails is just great for the web
<kiddoboy>
15 minutes writing a cross-platform and cross-domain application is the goal to achieve.
<rtyler>
PragTob: what's the latest on shoes4? good for kiddoboy to use?
<kiddoboy>
The framework should just work and deploy properly.
<kiddoboy>
rtyler: Was looking at it. In preview mode. Don't know what that means. :)
<PragTob>
rtyler: yeah there is a pre3 release, there are known issues but it's nice to play with :)
<PragTob>
rtyler: performance is still a bigger issue so if you wanna do games with lots of moving things, CPU might get up quite bit and the JVM hast to JIT a bit
<PragTob>
also pre1/jruby-head compatible
<kiddoboy>
Nowadays we have so many deployment tools. Why not take advantage of that?
<PragTob>
kiddoboy: preview means... um we don't want to release yet, some features missing but overall it's good to give it a spin. I.e. jasonrclark and I built a presentation tool and gave presentations in the presentation at conferences
<PragTob>
rtyler: kiddoboy one of the biggies missing is packaging
<PragTob>
rtyler: haha :-D
<kiddoboy>
haha get it know. Sorry!
<kiddoboy>
s/know/now/
<PragTob>
We have a couple of people building stuff with it, games/other stuff - and I know that the company of skade has some internal tour. I don't know what it is and I know they hit some problem ;)
<headius>
a framework like shoes would be a good place to start, since it defines its own toolkit that can be backed by almost anything
<kiddoboy>
PragTob: Shoes4 vs Fx? What do you have to say?
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<JRubyGithub>
[jruby] chrisseaton pushed 2 new commits to master: http://git.io/FMAS
<JRubyGithub>
jruby/master 6d0dfa5 Chris Seaton: [Truffle] StopIteration
<JRubyGithub>
jruby/master 1095f67 Chris Seaton: [Truffle] Rubinius Fiber is just a Fiber
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<rtyler>
there's not a widget toolkit for FX I thought
<PragTob>
kiddoboy: have never worked with FXRUby, but fx is basically just makign that C++ library available in ruby, right?
<headius>
it's supposed to work with swing
<headius>
kiddoboy: you mean JavaFX, don't you?
<PragTob>
kiddoboy: so you basically write C++ in ruby
<kiddoboy>
rtyler: headius mentioned jrubyfx. Isn't that a way of using java FX. Isn't FX the new gui library for java?
<PragTob>
kiddoboy headius ahh sorry
<PragTob>
so yeah, haven't used javaFX sorry - for all that I know it's a fine library
<chrisseaton>
I've been using Java FX recently - but with JRuby - it seems pretty good
<PragTob>
however you use the Java equivalents yourself, shoes is a whole DSL so it's easier/faster to build stuff
<rtyler>
it's more close to opengl as far as I know, whereas shoes is closer to Gtk+ or Qt in terms of what they provide
<rtyler>
I don't know what layout and widget primitives are available in javafx
<kiddoboy>
Could we put in place a framework where we could plugin either shoes4 or javaFX or swing for instance?
<PragTob>
Shoes.app do para 'Hello world' end
<PragTob>
button 'Click me' do alert 'Hello' end
<PragTob>
it's more ruby-ish
<kiddoboy>
What is the reason shoes4 only works with jruby and not cruby?
<PragTob>
shoes4 basically is a framework right now where you can plugin backends, that's the design goal and we have proof of concepts for CRUby + Qt and OpalRb + atom-shell
<PragTob>
so it works with CRuby, the current default backend is just JRuby + SWT
<PragTob>
I'd be happy if you gave shoes4 a spin and file any issues you hit :)
<kiddoboy>
ok
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<PragTob>
btw. headius chrisseaton where are you right now? Any plans for the evening #fosdem :)
<kiddoboy>
So do you think we can achieve something were you can develop for web + desktop using shoes4 in cruby + jruby?
<PragTob>
kiddoboy: well I dunno for the web and desktop... the other backends are proof of concepts and not really working, we could have something with Opal but that's a LONG way ahead
<chrisseaton>
PragTob: going for dinner with a business colleague, but I'll see you all tomorrow
<PragTob>
I'd share models/business logic in the models and then just write separate guis
<PragTob>
chrisseaton: yeah, see you tomorrow :)
<kiddoboy>
OpalRb + atom-shell that is something very interesting!
<kiddoboy>
Does it mean we can now start to right javascript with ruby?
<kiddoboy>
Using coffescript makes me sick.
<kiddoboy>
PragTob: That is what I'm talking about
<kiddoboy>
PragTob: Why not create a separate framework to enphasize that feature in top of Shoes4?
<PragTob>
I love coffeescript - yeah you can write OpalRb not sure how production ready it is though
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<kiddoboy>
PragTob: I'm starting to get some hope here.
<PragTob>
why would we create a separate framework when we have exchangeable backends?
<kiddoboy>
coffeescript is ruby + python + perl + I don't know what. Crazy opinionated syntax. Why not just ruby?
<PragTob>
I see it like rails where you can use different ActiveModel compliant ORMs like datamapper etc.
<kiddoboy>
the indentations just kill me. If I like it I would go for python
<PragTob>
kiddoboy: still close enough to JS taking away some ugly warts, and I love indentation
<kiddoboy>
PragTob: Exactly
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<kiddoboy>
PragTob: Let's return to our framework discussion?
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<PragTob>
kiddoboy: we can but I don't know why shoes would need another framework but maybe you can explain :)
<enebo>
yay sontatype dropped out again
<kiddoboy>
We have desktop + web. What about mobile? Is it feasible to be incorporated? Bear in mind Motorola's Rhomobile provides a huge set of tools to work with multiple mobile models.
<kiddoboy>
kiddoboy: shoes4 would be desktop side
<kiddoboy>
then the framework would be: Desktop + Web + mobile
<kiddoboy>
Marketing basically
<kiddoboy>
separation of concerns between libraries
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<kiddoboy>
The framework would be able to use shoes4 or javafx or swing
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<kiddoboy>
on the desktop side
<kiddoboy>
does it make sense?
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<kiddoboy>
with shoes4 we could use cruby
<headius>
enebo: :-\
<kiddoboy>
for javafx or swing we would have to use jruby
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<kiddoboy>
the framework would be more open to extensability
<enebo>
must take some big ass guns to take down a site used to upload petabytes of data a day (totally guessing :) )
<PragTob>
kiddoboy: for shoes4 at least there it's not the question of shoes4 or JavaFX but of shoes4 with a JavaFX backend
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<PragTob>
and whole framework to have, desktop web and mobile is nice, but Rby isn't particularly strong on mobile
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<PragTob>
I don't know of any production mobile applications written in Ruby
<PragTob>
also the scope of this is really big and hart
<PragTob>
it's a nice idea, but I fear not really practical but maybe my imagination is too limited
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<kiddoboy>
PragTob: ok. little steps isn't it? I all for it. web + desktop it's better the web || desktop so we are winning here and I'm already a happier guy after having this discussion with you.
<cpuguy83>
PragTob: the Basecamp iOS app _was_ written in Ruby(Motion)
<kiddoboy>
PragTob: take a look at Rhomobile and see what makes sense for the goal of web + desktop + mobile
<headius>
cpuguy83: not anymore?
<headius>
I know they're looking for android devs now too
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<kiddoboy>
Motorola is a huge company and if we succeed to work with them then we would be in a good position
<cpuguy83>
I think they've transition to native ObjC... if I recall correctly.
<PragTob>
argh forgot about ruby motion, sorry cpuguy83 you are right bad Tobi
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<PragTob>
mainly because I don't use Apple products myself I tend to forget about it, but they also have Android support
<PragTob>
as for Android yes there is ruboto but I dunno of production stuff and I'm uncertain about the future with 9k dropping JDK6
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<PragTob>
kiddoboy: yeah Rhoodes mobile I head about it but never saq it
<jwoertink>
my question is, I have this class "com.jme3.bullet.collision.shapes.CapsuleCollisionShape", would it be ok to do something like JMonkeyEngine::CapsuleCollisionShape, or more proper to do JMonkeyEngine::Bullet::Collision::Shapes::CapsuleCollisionShape?
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<jwoertink>
or probably JMonkeyEngine::Bullet::CapsileCollsionShape over the first way
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<enebo>
jwoertink: My personal opinion on this is it depends how much you want to hide the underlying Java API as an abstraction
<enebo>
jwoertink: If you want people to be able to consult Javadocs then matching java package system will tell them what they need to reference that
<enebo>
jwoertink: If you do plan on making JME be more of an impl detail then I don’t have an opinion :)
<jwoertink>
true. hmmm... Yeah, the idea is just that currently settings it all up is just so verbose. I'd like it to be really easy to get up and running.
<jwoertink>
like being able to do require "jmonkeyengine/bullet", and then you have everything you need from that package
<enebo>
jwoertink: I don’t even remember how I did this in my jme repo
<enebo>
jwoertink: I know for threepence I went to make underlying scene graph transparent
<headius>
jwoertink: if there's any naming conflict you could box them up deeper, but I just meant by large scale functionaliy
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<headius>
or at least put them all in JMonkeyEngine namespace or similar
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<enebo>
jwoertink: headius: I guess I would make it really easy to determine which package it is in if you have to rely on Javadocs to do stuff. Only comment (repeated)
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<enebo>
reducing on typing when you don’t know what to type is not helpful
<headius>
yeah true
<enebo>
jwoertink: perhaps you want a more hybrid approach
<jwoertink>
Well, I guess in any case, you'll always be able to java_import "com.jme3.whatever"
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<enebo>
jwoertink: basic setup is your own classes documented but then you pull in the non-setup stuff ala java package
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<jwoertink>
hmm.. Still feels a little fuzzy to me.
<jwoertink>
I'm trying to picture what the gem structure would look like
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<jwoertink>
Then again, breaking these out might also create a huge headache with managing the classes
<jwoertink>
like if jme deprecated some class in an update, I'd have to reflect that
<enebo>
jwoertink: yeah but it is a MASSIVE number of classes to
<jwoertink>
haha. true
<headius>
heh: (╯°□°)--▄︻̷̿┻̿═━━━
<headius>
pew pew
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<enebo>
jwoertink: so that might also tell you changnig namespacing would be a big effort
<jwoertink>
Yeah. I think if I do it, I'll stick with the exact namespace
<enebo>
jwoertink: although as you say you can always fall back to java_import for things you have not moved into your namespace
<jwoertink>
One thing I would like to do, however, is there's an issue with this
<jwoertink>
when writing this in JRuby, you can't write it as simple_init_app, it has to be camelcased
<jwoertink>
I'd like to have a alias method for this sort of thing
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<enebo>
jwoertink: yeah I generally write def simpleInitApp; simple_init_app; end with an empty simple_init_app; then you extend it and provide your own snake case version
<enebo>
the empty version is important for not getting a stackoverflow exception if it is not impld :)
<jwoertink>
right. Awesome. Thanks for the chat!
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<enebo>
sferik: so that separate logic would really need to make it into hotspot for it to be default since we want to still run on older JVMs
<lopex>
there's numbers!
<enebo>
well I guss I mean that is a consideration
<sferik>
will JRuby 9k still support Java 6?
<lopex>
6 is already eoled right ?
<enebo>
sferik: Java 7 largely except on Android
<enebo>
And even then I think we can use some Java 7 APIs on android but it is something we need to address still
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<sferik>
enebo: are many people using JRuby on Android?
<enebo>
sferik: I don’t know how many but maybe donV would (if he was on)
<enebo>
sferik: He uses it for his apps a gaerdemon airport
<enebo>
sferik: and maintains Ruboto
<sferik>
enebo: ah right
<sferik>
enebo: Ruboto is awesome
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<PragTob>
sferik: also quite weirdly truffle is missing Java integration last time I checked
<lopex>
enebo: is that the same project as Oslo was ?
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<enebo>
PragTob: sferik: and also threading
<enebo>
lopex: yeah
<lopex>
ah, it's in Oslo
<PragTob>
yeah it has a GIL
<PragTob>
but it's a very cool project, happy to hear more about it tomorrow once again
<enebo>
It is a super impressive backend but it has a ways to go
<PragTob>
on the plus side they were working on super good C-Extension support sferik
<tarcieri>
enebo: things are looking good for us on 1.7.19 so far
<tarcieri>
enebo: there was one other thing I should've requested but oh well
<enebo>
tarcieri: I hope so :)
<tarcieri>
enebo: you still bundle jruby-openssl 0.9.5 and 0.9.6 is out (with some bugfixes for us)
<PragTob>
enebo: sheos4 is green on 1.7.19 as well, nicely done - thanks!
<enebo>
tarcieri: yeah that stuff needs to happen with full dev cycle to find problems
<enebo>
PragTob: good to know
<PragTob>
although I'm more looking forward to 9k pre2 et. al. to see perf improvements etc. :)
<enebo>
We got a lot of reports from pre1 so we will so what we get done for pre2
<tarcieri>
enebo: cool
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<Who>
enebo: hey
<enebo>
Who: howdy
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<JRubyGithub>
[jruby] enebo pushed 1 new commit to jruby-1_7: http://git.io/FSmX
<JRubyGithub>
jruby/jruby-1_7 615bbf8 Thomas E. Enebo: Fix ci?
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<Who>
did you get a chance to look at the PR
<enebo>
Who: I only glanced so far
<Antiarc>
Hey folks, this is mega shotgunny, but we're looking to hire folks with jruby proficiency. If you're looking for employment and interested in using jruby to build things that aren't just web apps, shoot me a PM :)
<Who>
Antiarc: nice :)
<Who>
enebo: anything thing I can do it to improve it?
<enebo>
Who: I looked yesterday. Let me glance again. I thought there was something weird about pulling out the kwargs from asgn but I don’t remember why
<enebo>
Who: did this run all of mri’s tests plus untag a few?
<Who>
yep
<Who>
isn’t it passing on travis as well
<enebo>
ah true
<Who>
I had run MRI specs last night before submitting it as well
<Who>
enebo: guess I will try to work on search_required a bit over the weekend
<enebo>
Who: great
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<Who>
enebo: is there anything I can readup in CS (papers or anything) to help me with contributing to interesting parts of the project?
<Who>
I remember you said that during your talk at RubyConf to brush up on compilers
<enebo>
Who: I would say the Aho compilers dragon book but I am struggling to read parts so I am unsure if I recommend it
<enebo>
Who: I really wish I had taken compilers course when I was in school
<Who>
ah
<Who>
I have it with me
<Who>
enebo: you can try the coursera compiler course
<Who>
I am planning to do it seriously now
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<Who>
with aiming to finish the exercises as well
<enebo>
Who: I keep meaning to sign up but then I forget :)
<Who>
heh, yeah hard to do follow all the courses
<enebo>
Who: Also from signing up but forgetting to do it I think about 60% of the source is on early phases like lexical analysis and parsing which I am not interested in (which I feel I know well enough)
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<Who>
enebo: you are interested in code gen and optimisations parts of it?
<enebo>
Who: everything after parsing.
<enebo>
Who: I feel I have learned quite a bit from working on the project but I am missing some basics still
<enebo>
good god sontype must be getting attacked from space today
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<Who>
enebo: I am doing something similiar these days, building basic/fundamental skills on side
<enebo>
Life long learning they call it :)
<Who>
like getting my algorithms/DS skills on to a level where I can identify the patterns in a real project and think what can I use here
<enebo>
nice
<Who>
I rememeber in Algorithms Design Manuel, it mentions lot of problems can be modeled as a graph
<Who>
need to practice to make it instinctive though