<ullbeking>
so it can be bigger than the size indicated?
<BenG83>
up to 128GB is usually no problem
<ullbeking>
cool, thanks!
<ullbeking>
so i guess my newest (H5) options are Orange Pi Zero Plus 2 H5 or Orange Pi Prime?
<willmore>
BenG83, I assume you'll mention it here when you make the update. I'll try to pay attention.
<willmore>
ullbeking, I'm fond of the PC2, but it really depends on your use case.
<willmore>
An H5 version of the Zero would be great.
<ullbeking>
pc2 looks good. i like the prime, but there are so many question marks...
<ullbeking>
use case is flashing bios chips
<MoeIcenowy>
maybe old boards without onboard SPI NOR is better on flashing bios
<ullbeking>
why?
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<ullbeking>
MoeIcenowy: how can i tell if there is onboard SPI NOR? and what difference for flashing bios would this make?
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<KotCzarny>
ullbeking: i like opi +2E, it has VERY fast 16GB emmc, crazy fast comparing to any sdcard you try
<KotCzarny>
also, when you order from xunlong store you can choose 8GB sandisk INDUSTRIAL sd card, it's performance is similar to sandisk ultra, but a lot speedier than any noname or fake card
<ullbeking>
It looks as though I can't really go wrong with any of them
<ullbeking>
I hoping to get a H5
<ullbeking>
But H3 will do too if it makes life easier
<ullbeking>
I don't know what the upstream kernel support is like to H3 compared to H5
<KotCzarny>
also, it has 2GB of ram
<ullbeking>
> also, when you order from xunlong store
<ullbeking>
I tried to do this but got redirected to aliexpress
<KotCzarny>
i'm waiting for a version with H5, but for now it's the best all around board
<ullbeking>
Orange Pi Plus 2 looks even better than the 2E
<KotCzarny>
and due to it's size, it also has good thermal dissipation capabilities
<KotCzarny>
no
<KotCzarny>
+2E is best
<ullbeking>
Why?
<KotCzarny>
best emmc, 2GB ram, 3 REAL usb ports (not sharing usb bandwidth), onboard wifi, good thermal
<KotCzarny>
any board with 4 usb ports is most likely using internal usb hub, while not bad for input devices like mouse/kb/gps, it really matters if you plan to connect uasp hdd
<KotCzarny>
and those onboard SATA ports are: 1/ connected via usb hub, 2/ are using CRAPPY chip (slow, no uasp)
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<ullbeking>
emmc being the SD card?
<KotCzarny>
similar, but different (much faster)
<ullbeking>
So there's a big difference between the 2E and 2
<ullbeking>
I guess you really need to study the functional block diagrams before making a decision
<KotCzarny>
or read through cnx/armbian-forums about boards
<ullbeking>
I am SO confused by this SPI Flash (NOR) thing...
<ullbeking>
How can this be optional?
<ullbeking>
Like, for the Prime
<KotCzarny>
spi flash == think of bios on pc
<ullbeking>
Right
<ullbeking>
But when it says optional, you actually have to go out and buy essentially a BIOS?
<KotCzarny>
there are pcs that can read bios or bootloader directly from hdd
<KotCzarny>
no, because it's only useful for special tasks
<KotCzarny>
ie. you want to be able to boot without sd card
<ullbeking>
Oh right
<KotCzarny>
or for vendors, to provide some working board out of the box
<ullbeking>
I tried to order the Prime last night and then got so confused by this
<KotCzarny>
before buying anything you have to write your expectations, what will you be using board for
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<ullbeking>
Of course
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<ullbeking>
It will be for flashing BIOSes of other computers after connecting cables to the chip (e.g., coreboot, libreboot)
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<ullbeking>
Of course, I'll probably become interesting in it for other reasons too
<ullbeking>
Maybe I'll end up using it as a little firewall
<ullbeking>
What is your opinion of the OPi Prime?
<ullbeking>
<MoeIcenowy> maybe old boards without onboard SPI NOR is better on flashing bios
<ullbeking>
KotCzarny: do you know why this might be?
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<ullbeking>
And as willmore said, the PC2 is very nice too
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<ullbeking>
So I'm torn, about what Orange Pi to get
<pmpp>
pi+2e is the best imho
<ullbeking>
So which one, which one...
<ullbeking>
Maybe swiftgeek will have an opinion
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<ullbeking>
KotCzarny: i'm leaning towards the 2E now. it makes sense to me. is it well suppoted by the upstream kernel sources?
<pmpp>
fyi that's KotCzarny who pushed me to +2E :D
<[TheBug]>
+2e is the best H3
<[TheBug]>
I have PC, PC2, PC Plus, Plus 2E and Plus 2E is definently the winner
<pmpp>
except for audio jack that make awfull noise
<pmpp>
even usbaudio $1 is somehow better shielded
<[TheBug]>
definitely*
<ullbeking>
So I'm getting the +2E. The whole set includes the board, protection box, power supply with DC connector suppling 5V @ 3000mA (model # ANU-050300A), and a SanDisk Ultra 16 GB SD Card.
<ullbeking>
Now to find all the other accessories, wires, breadboards, etc...
<ullbeking>
This is going to be a huge order. I want to get everything I'm likely to need all at once; if you have any suggestions, let me know :-)
<pmpp>
grab a cheap arduino kit to have some accessories
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<ullbeking>
Great idea pmpp
<pmpp>
you have #orangepi channel for preparing your order and asking for compatibility, quite a dev channel here and not orangepi specific
<ullbeking>
pmpp: thank you for that advice; in fact, i did specifically ask whether this was appropriate...
<pmpp>
well if you have choosen orange pi better go on #orangepi to have more broad answers, it could even reanimate the dead channel :p
<ullbeking>
<ullbeking> Is there an IRC channel for Orange Pi or is this it?
<ullbeking>
And which model and accessories I should get for this task
<ullbeking>
<ullbeking> How to use the Orange Pi for socketed chip SPI flashing
<ullbeking>
<KotCzarny> that depends what topic you want to discuss
<ullbeking>
<KotCzarny> yeah, then it is the right channel, you just have to wait for someone knowledgeable in that area
<ullbeking>
did you check wiki already?
<ullbeking>
^ So I did make best effort to check :-)
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<pmpp>
because you asked for SPI flashing
<ullbeking>
pmpp: so flashing is ok here?
<ullbeking>
but talking opis in particuar should be over there?
<pmpp>
yeah flash / spi / i2c / otg / mali
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<pmpp>
you'll need #orangepi #h3droid and #armbian to get around your board, here will be if you hit specific technical kernel stuff
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<[TheBug]>
MoeIcenowy: when trying to clone your LicheePi linux kernel git I am getting an error: https://paste.ee/p/uBkqu
<[TheBug]>
MoeIcenowy: not sure whats up but you may have an issue with the repository if you could check
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<willmore>
ullbeking, you want this computer so that you can use it to program socketed SPI flash chips?
<ullbeking>
yes
<ullbeking>
willmore: yes
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<willmore>
ullbeking, do you have any experience in this area?
<ullbeking>
no
<willmore>
Okay, you're going to need to get some help with the electronics side of this project.
<ullbeking>
I've chosen a OPi +2E
<ullbeking>
After long deliberations
<ullbeking>
But any further help would be AMAZING
<ullbeking>
Thank you
<ullbeking>
!!!
<ullbeking>
I've got a shopping list of whole bunch of other things that I'll need, which I've compiled via these chats
<ullbeking>
(Don't know how to use half this stuff though ;-)
<willmore>
I don't know if there is a good electronics chat here on freenode, but there is a good one over on Rizon.
<ullbeking>
oh really?
<ullbeking>
what's the name?
<ullbeking>
and for what sort of things should I consult them?
<willmore>
ullbeking, depending on the SPI chip you're programming, you may need to use 5V logic levels, so you'll need level converters as the Orange Pi boards can only tolerate 3.3V I/O.
<willmore>
You'll also need to rig together some kind of ZIF socket for the chips that you're programming.
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<ullbeking>
thank you diego71, this is going on the shopping list too. probably will buy about 20 or so.
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<willmore>
ullbeking, if the SPI chip is 5V, then the 5V goes to it and the 3.3V goes to the Orange.
<willmore>
I think you're going to find that most modern SPI chips are perfectly fine at 3.3V only. I have some older 5V ones, but I'm unusual.
<pmpp>
isn't pi+2e is 5volts tolerant like pipc ?
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<ullbeking>
willmore: my impression was that if you plug a USB cable from a big computer to your OPi, then that supplies the power (erm, to what?)
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<pmpp>
ullbeking: computer is expecteed to provide no more than 500mA that could be not enough under certain use
<smaeul>
ullbeking: SPI NOR flash chips are usually rated for something like 100000 writes, so you're not likely to break them and need 20 replacements, unless you just want 20 to play around with
<ullbeking>
smaeul: the prime is really perplexing
<smaeul>
ullbeking: if you buy the brick with your OPi, that will supply the power, and you don't need to connect it to a "big computer"
<ullbeking>
if the prime doesn't come with SPI NOR flash chip (listed as optional), then how do you get it on there? where do you buy it from?
<smaeul>
ullbeking: also, about possible issues with "boards with onboard SPI NOR" is that the PC2 has a SPI flash installed on it (it's the only one with a chip preinstalled)
<smaeul>
so you'll see that chip instead of your laptop's bios chip if you tell flashrom to use the wron SPI bus
<ullbeking>
<smaeul> ullbeking: if you buy the brick with your OPi, that will supply the power, and you don't need to connect it to a "big computer"
<ullbeking>
but you still need a SPI NOR to boot, right?
<smaeul>
the Pi, no
<smaeul>
"All currently known Allwinner SoCs can boot from SPI flash, which usually has the lowest boot priority and is probed only after all the other options fail (SD card, NAND and eMMC)."
<smaeul>
by default the OPi will boot from SD card (or eMMC if it has one, like the +2E)
<pmpp>
or fel with the extra button
<smaeul>
the OPi only uses *its* SPI flash if no SD card is installed, so you could e.g. install Linux on a usb hard drive
<smaeul>
(also, for future reference, there is #coreboot #flashrom and #libreboot once you get that far)
<[TheBug]>
Net147: seems to have worked on another system, not sure whats up with that.
<[TheBug]>
willmore: ltns, hope you are well?
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<KotCzarny>
ullbeking: you should treat +2e as a all around machine, and you can get some cheapest 7-9usd opi0 or opi1 for initial experiments
<KotCzarny>
once you are sure you have things figured out you can use whatever you want
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<ullbeking>
willmore, smaeul, pmpp, diego71: here is the thing i find perplexing about the prime. Look at this diagram: https://linux-sunxi.org/Table_of_allwinner_based_boards , and find the entry for "Orange Pi Prime" (second column). Then, for the column headed "eMMC/SPI Flash", you'll see that this row has "8Mbit (optional)".
<ullbeking>
You've explained how the SPI NOR flash chip is not always necessary to boot (due to order of boot devices). Regardless, as this is marked "optional", this suggests that it doesn't come with the device as puchased from the manufacturer. However, if I WANTED to install an SPI NOR chip, how would I actually get one? I doubt that it's as simple as purchasing an SD Card... or is it?
<ullbeking>
Also, KotCzarny ^
<KotCzarny>
some batches have it, some not, most likely
<KotCzarny>
maybe you have to request it to be soldered while you checkout
<KotCzarny>
and you dont need onboard spi at all
<KotCzarny>
i mean spi flash chip onboard
<KotCzarny>
since you only need sdcard or emmc to boot the board
<KotCzarny>
and having onboard spi could confuse you since you would have to watch out which device you will be flashing
<KotCzarny>
xunlong started selling sensors, lcd screens, funsies
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<willmore>
[TheBug], thanks. Doing fine. You?
<willmore>
aliexpress is full of NOR flash chips, ullbeking. That's where I got mine.
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<[TheBug]>
willmore: doing alright, about to head out to a baseball game for rest of the afternoon ;)
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