p_l changed the topic of #lisp to: Common Lisp, the #1=(programmable . #1#) programming language | <https://irclog.tymoon.eu/freenode/%23lisp> <https://irclog.whitequark.org/lisp> <http://ccl.clozure.com/irc-logs/lisp/> | ASDF 3.3.4
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<beach> Good morning everyone!
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<beach> phoe: Congratulations! Yes, two weeks will be fine.
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<phoe> beach: thanks.
<phoe> Also good morning
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<no-defun-allowed> Hello phoe
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<beach> Hello phoe.
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<beach> phoe: Can you please give me the link again?
<beach> I may have found it. Is it the conditions.md file?
<boeg> morning
<beach> Hello boeg.
* ober notes asking lw/acl questions here is like when you go into the apple store, and ask for the "black shirt business account reps" and they hustle you off to the side out of view of the public to give you real service.
<ober> that being said is there a portable method for exit-hooks for say lw?
<no-defun-allowed> https://github.com/ailisp/exit-hooks supports roughly everything other than LispWorks.
<beach> The reason for that reaction is that freenode is geared toward free software, and if you have acquired a commercial implementation, you are better off asking their customer support, since most people here probably use a FLOSS implementation.
<beach>
<boeg> I'm looking at a manual saying that slime has a command (prefix with ,) called load-system that should, as far as I can see, do what manual quickloading does, but wihtout typing as many characters, though it doesn't seem like my slime has it. Is there such a command, or is the manual i'm looking at wrong?
<beach> There is such a command.
<beach> Are you in the REPL buffer?
<beach> It may not invoke quickload though, perhaps just ASDF.
<boeg> i'm in slime yes, if i type ",", sayonara and restart-inferior-lisp and so on appears
<no-defun-allowed> If you have the slime-asdf contrib, then ,load-system should work.
<Shinmera> the contribs should just all be loaded by default these days
<ober> beach: freenode rules state the "free" programs use ##
<no-defun-allowed> I can't disagree with Shinmera.
<ober> plus let's face it, this channel was here before Rob decided to create freenode
<beach> ober: I am only explaining your observation.
<boeg> no-defun-allowed, Shinmera: only thing that appears if i type ",loa" is "compile-and-load"
<no-defun-allowed> (My .emacs has (slime-setup '(slime-fancy slime-fancy-inspector slime-indentation slime-tramp slime-asdf)))
<boeg> maybe i'm missing something, ill check
<boeg> i have no slime setup ...
<boeg> just installed slime and went on my way i guess
<ober> original title in this channel was for lw :P
<Shinmera> Things can change? Perish the thought!
<ober> like with clhs?
<ober> not all us are lucky enough to use sbcl at work
<no-defun-allowed> What implementation do you use then?
<no-defun-allowed> If it's a commercial implementation, then don't you have other support channels?
<boeg> no-defun-allowed, Shinmera: yes, i needed that slime-asdf it seems, now i have the load-system although it cannot find my project, i guess it doesnt look in the quicklisp/local-projects dir :)
<ober> no-defun-allowed: yeah exit-hooks is what I was trying to use, no luck finding an analogue to it in lw.
<beach> ober: I don't understand your point. Do you want people here to start learning about LispWorks so that they can help people like you?
<ober> beach: nope. I just know there are some out there that do, and perhaps may know..
<ober> some folks still use the older lisps
<phoe> beach: yes, I've also sent you an invitation to a Git repository where more work happens.
<White_Flame> ober: actually, it's the other way around. # is for free projects, ## is for general topics
<White_Flame> technically, #lisp is a bit off in that sense
<boeg> seems i manually have to (asdf:load-path ...) before i can find my project with ,load-system. Is there a way to tell asdf about my project so I don't have to manually do it?
<White_Flame> although one could make a defense for the conglomeration of free, interoperable, standard projects
<phoe> boeg: where is your project located?
<ober> just fixing the endless Package "SB-EXT" not found. common among ql projects :P
<boeg> i have it in my project directory, and i have a symlink in my quicklisp/local-projects dir
<boeg> phoe: ^
<phoe> boeg: huh, it should find it without issues if it's available in local-projects
<boeg> hmm
<jdz> Assuming quicklisp is loaded.
<ober> beach: sorry I was not trying to come off as a troll, merely posting the preamble prior to trying to reach out to those few who do use it.
<boeg> phoe: it doesnt, not before i manually do asdf:load-path. But it is found by quicklisp, I can easily do (ql:quickload :mysystem)
<boeg> i guess something is awry
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<Fare> I had an interesting bug: registering all present ASDF systems as immutable, I could not dump an image for the topmost one anymore, because the immutability was marking the image dumping as a forced-not operation.
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<ober> hey Fare
<boeg> So does anyone have an idea how to find out what is wrong? I have a symlink to my project in ~/quicklisp/local-projects, and i can (ql:quickload :my-project) but I cannot ,load-system it in slime before I manually (asdf:load-path "full/path/to/my/projects/asd")
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<jackdaniel> a symlink?
<jackdaniel> missing ql:register-local-projects?
<boeg> jackdaniel: a symbolic link, i believe its called
<boeg> i can try, but if that was a problem, how would quickload be able to find it by just providing the symbol of the system (ie :system-name) ?
<jackdaniel> asdf looks for asd files with the same name as the primary system name
<jackdaniel> that is part before "/"
<jackdaniel> i.e system-name.asd
<jackdaniel> where it looks for them is a) configured, b) programmed with hooks, c) [deprecated] pushed to the central registry
<boeg> yes - what happens is that if i open a new slime, ,load-system doesn't find my project, but if i then (asdf:load-asd "/Users/cb/Projects/next/next.asd"), then ,load-system can find it. And in ~/quicklisp/local-projects I have a symlink: next -> /Users/cb/Projects/next and I can always load the system with (ql:quickload :next), even without asdf:load-asd it
<jackdaniel> afaik ql does the b) variant
<jackdaniel> because a) load-asd is explicit action for defining the system
<boeg> alright, it just sounded from what phoe said, that if ql:quickload can find it, ,load-system should be able to too
<jackdaniel> b) local projects is programmed to look in there for not defined systems
<boeg> indeed
<boeg> so is there a way to tell ,load-system to look somewhere too?
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<jackdaniel> when you addyes
<jackdaniel> look at asdf doc
<jackdaniel> conf file or registry
<beach> phoe: I accepted your invitation. How do you want me to communicate my remarks to you?
<boeg> jackdaniel: ah, yes, thanks, seems ~/common-lisp is a location
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<phoe> beach: GitHub issues preferably
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<beach> phoe: Perfect.
<phoe> beach: thanks!
<beach> phoe: One issue per remark, or is a more course granularity acceptable?
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<phoe> beach: any way you prefer. You can also create a branch on the repo and submit fixes by PRs.
<beach> That would be too much work for me.
<phoe> Issues might be better though now that we have multiple reviewers
<phoe> Good - just issues are fine
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<Fare> boeg: unlike ~/quicklisp/local-projects/, ~/common-lisp/ is pre-configured in ASDF and has been since 3.1.2 (2015?)
<Fare> Actually, 2014.
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<boeg> Fare: yeah, i ended up pushing ~/common-lisp to ql:*local-project-directories* in my .sbclrc and move my symlinks there
<boeg> seems to have made it so that now its all available to both asdf and quicklisp
<boeg> its weird that its not by default ...
<Fare> I have negative credence to Xach, but maybe *you* can convince him.
<axion> Just bear in mind the Quicklisp's local projects will not automatically pick up sub-directories. You must use register-local-projects manually for that.
<boeg> good to know
<axion> Depending on how you set up your symlinks, everything could be a sub-directory.
<axion> The functionality is explained in the comment here: https://github.com/quicklisp/quicklisp-client/blob/master/quicklisp/local-projects.lisp
<boeg> good to know
<boeg> thanks :)
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<jackdaniel> who would have thought that cl-pro mailing list will have ads for a gerbil scheme ^^
<axion> Who would have thought it would get activity this year?
<jackdaniel> true :)
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<Nilby> who would have thought that define-syntax is an easy way to do macros?
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<doomlist3> hi
<doomlist3> https://bpaste.net/LDKA it seems the variables are not ggetting update, so what's the cmd to delete a variable to unload it from memory
<phoe> doomlist3: none
<phoe> you do not manage memory in Lisp, the system does it for you
<phoe> also, you seem to be misunderstanding DEFVAR
<Fare> sometimes you do manage it, and the system gets in the way. But that's rare
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<phoe> Fare: that's edge cases, nothing for a beginner to worry about
<jackdaniel> uninterning symbol may lead to garbage collection if there are no other references
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<phoe> doomlist3: if the variable is already set, then DEFVAR will not overwrite it with the new value
<phoe> you want to either SETF the variable if it's already established or use DEFPARAMETER that will always overwrite the value
<doomlist3> phoe: so defvar is bad
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<axion> No, defvar is quite useful
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<phoe> doomlist3: no, it's useful, you're just using the wrong tool
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<phoe> DEFVAR is for cases where you don't want your variable to get overwritten when you reevaluate a file
<phoe> which happens surprisingly often in a Lisp programming model
<axion> It's also useful when you don't want a root binding for the special.
<doomlist3> one more doubt- i did (setf *newvar* "hi") and *newvar* got set and defined.
<doomlist3> even though it wasn't predefined.
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<axion> That is implementation defined behavior. SBCL will warn in that case.
<phoe> it's effectively undefined behaviour
<doomlist3> axion: I said undefined variable, but set it anyway in sbcl
<phoe> yes, it's undefined behaviour
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<axion> That is fine, SBCL allows that. But it is effectively undefined behavior.
<phoe> SBCL does it so pre-ANSI CL code keeps on working
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<phoe> older lisps didn't use DEFVAR or DEFPARAMETER and just set symbols like that using toplevel SETF or SETQ
<doomlist3> clhs setq
<specbot>