<aeth>
bitmapper: If you mean CL-on-Racket, then the other way around's easier. You'd just need R6RS-on-CL and then you'd have to trick Racket into thinking that R6RS-on-CL is Chez Scheme. It's easier to implement the smaller language in the larger one than the other way around.
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<bitmapper>
i get that
<bitmapper>
i wasn't being serious
<aeth>
(And then if you have Racket-on-CL, then CL-on-Racket-on-CL should be trivial)
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<beach>
Good morning everyone!
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<p_l>
aeth: I'd have said gRPC, but then I remembered a) there's no usable library available b) I said I'd write it c) that was in Madeira so I should be quite ashamed
<Oladon>
Morning beach!
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<Aurora_v_kosmose>
That answers the question of if such a library exists. Oh well, I'll wait. :)
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<no-defun-allowed>
How should I go about limiting concurrent access to some resource to some arbitrary number of threads?
<beach>
Use a semaphore.
<beach>
Initialize it to N where N is the number of concurrent accesses that you want.
<beach>
Before a thread wants to access the resource, do a WAIT on the semaphore.
<beach>
After a thread has finished accessing the resource, it does a SIGNAL on the semaphore.
<no-defun-allowed>
Wow, that seems pretty easy. Thanks.
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<beach>
Sure.
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<adlai>
lol, turns out I've been using a satisfies type specifier in a pprint dispatch table for the past ~decade, and this is probably why my life is cursed
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<phoe>
oh god
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<jackdaniel>
aren't you satisfied with it?
<adlai>
i am actually quite satisfied with it, i just had forgotten that the kludge was that kludgey
<easye>
Hmmm. Am I to understand correctly from yesterday that this is no decent gRPC implementation in CL?
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<adlai>
ideally, the two birds killable by one stone are the satisfies type in the pprint dispatch table, and the load-time http requests, since treating those requests as load-time constants will enable unrolling the satisfies into a member type
<p_l>
easye: no gRPC library that I know of. Protobufs, sure, but gRPC needs all the transport bits, and those need HTTP/2
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<easye>
p_l: Ooh. HTTP/2 huh? We need an implementation of that as well I suppose.
<p_l>
_death: it was for draft version, but it could be a starting point
<easye>
_death: Did Akamai deploy that?
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<phoe>
> Contains code from CL-ASYNC which contains this notice: "As always, my code is MIT licenced. Do whatever the hell you want with it. Enjoy!"
<phoe>
amazing
<easye>
No, I guess not. It was too prototype the spec.
<p_l>
easye: yes, HTTP/2 is the required transport protocol (I *think* there might be unofficial mapping for QUIC aka HTTP/3 as well), as pretty much gRPC is set of messages sent using HTTP/2
<p_l>
i.e. features of HTTP/2 are directly depended upon in gRPC
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* no-defun-allowed
shuffles around protobuf objects on Gopher in the corner
<easye>
no-defun-allowed: heh. I remember Gopher fondly...
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<bitmapper>
til that SBCL and ECL come with a concurrent ml implementation
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<jeosol>
Good morning guys!
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<Xach>
hello there.
<Xach>
i've read a number of projects from the 90s that have a load.lisp file that just has a list of files to compile-file then load.
<jeosol>
hi Xach
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<Xach>
i wonder about emitting a file like that automatically
<Xach>
and also about using xref to figure out ordering
<phoe>
bitmapper: ml implementation?
<bitmapper>
concurrent ml
<jeosol>
when working with lists, it is better to use push then reverse vs. cons. I am trying to read a file and create a large object for my application, with 30GB dynamic-space-size SBCL exhaust heap
<bitmapper>
which is RELATED to ML, but isn't ML itself
<bitmapper>
it's just the concurrency framework that SML uses
<phoe>
jeosol: push + nreverse I guess
<phoe>
REVERSE conses, and you will not want that for large fresh lists
<jeosol>
cool beans. I see , modify in place
<Xach>
jeosol: "vs" cons? push IS cons underneath.
<jeosol>
ok. thanks for the clarity
<jeosol>
I went from 5GB all the way to 30GB and it's still blowing up, so I have to check my algorithm.
<phoe>
jeosol: care to post it?
<jeosol>
I am loading corner-point-grid file (finite-volume/element) application, do a bunch of grid geometry calculations as I read the grid file
<shka_>
jeosol: you are storing numbers in a linked lists?
<phoe>
is that some sort of binary file?
<jeosol>
Let me test the nreverse option and to see if it works
<phoe>
if yes, you might want to use vectors instead of cons cells
<shka_>
phoe: agreed
<jeosol>
no, it's ascii
<phoe>
conses are highly memory-inefficient when it comes to storing numbers
<shka_>
well, for small sequences it is ok
<phoe>
do you have an example file?
<shka_>
but it is essentially need twice the memory
<shka_>
as compared to vectors
<jeosol>
Yeah, vectors are what I use elsewhere, but the grid has some features that I won't know the dimensions of certain "pillars" so I use a list
<phoe>
ouch, I see
<jeosol>
Yeah, I'll have to find a way to use vectors. I can't have some require more that 30GB to load things, does make much sense
<phoe>
how large is that file of yours
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<jeosol>
The fine varies in general, the current one is like 66MB. It specific to a software and it uses compressed formats arbitrary to pack the data efficiency, e.g., for repeating numbers 3*3000 is equal to have 3000 3000 3000
<phoe>
huh
<phoe>
peculiar
<jeosol>
I think it's the cons that's making it blow up, but I will change it and test
<jeosol>
no, it's highly peculiar and application specific to a software, but it's corner-point-grid
<jeosol>
I will test with push and nreverse or see if I can use vectors
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<jeosol>
shka_: missed your comment, the storing numbers in a list is intermediate step, after processing everything is in vectors for easy access
<pve>
Xach: i use (asdf:input-files 'asdf:concatenate-source-op :my-system). Works well for my purposes.
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<Xach>
pve: thanks, that looks like an excellent source of info
<Xach>
pve: what do you do with that list?
<pve>
Xach: I built a "system watcher", i.e. a test runner that i run in the background in a shell that monitors a system for changed files using inotify. When a file is saved it loads the entire system from source into a fresh image and runs all tests.
<Xach>
pve: cool
<pve>
I find it essential when juggling exports and deleting unused functions
<Xach>
pve: how often do you have a saved file in an inconsistennt state?
<pve>
all the time, it seems
<Xach>
hee hee
<pve>
most of the time it's like "hmm can I safely delete this function?" or "I want to move this function into that package and make sure everything works"
<phoe>
pve: I am interested in it
<pve>
the system watcher?
<phoe>
yes
<pve>
i could throw it up on github
<phoe>
please do
<pve>
ok, i'll notify you when it's there
<pve>
should be soonish
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<phoe>
thanks!
<Xach>
inotify you
<phoe>
nice
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<jeosol>
i experienced different behaviors running the code on terminal/shell and from within slime. no issues with slime (no change to code)?
<phoe>
jeosol: what do you mean, different behaviours
<jeosol>
trying to save a core file for faster restart so I need to run on terminal
<phoe>
one can't save a core from inside slime without some hacks
<jeosol>
I loaded the same code (ql:quickload :system-name) in slime, runs fine
<phoe>
that is because slime uses multiple threads by default
<jeosol>
I do the same on terminal sbcl --dynamic-space-size [arg] and then it's blows up
<jeosol>
I now of the multiple thread use, but will that be why it runs fine and terminal blows up.
<jeosol>
Is that multiple threads to the same work or others for other stuff. I see main thread, swank reader-threads ... etc
<Xach>
"blows up"?
<jeosol>
heap exhausted errors
<Xach>
jeosol: what do you get if you run (sb-ext:dynamic-space-size) before loading the software, in slime and in the terminal? do you get the same value?
<jeosol>
I have to check that. I was even searching for away to check mem usage a few minutes ago
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<jeosol>
xach: my slime was running 20GB and it was lower for sbcl on terminal.
<jeosol>
with "nreverse" takes works with 4GB, may be less, not tested lower
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<Xach>
jeosol: aha. that means they can be made the same.
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<jeosol>
xach: yeah, my bad. I didn't sleep trying to get this to load and my brain is fatigued. I do Mx slime starts with 20GB, but I was running terminal with 5GB
<jeosol>
Now terminal does work with 4GB and I can save a core to load later.
<Xach>
even nicer
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<adlai>
perhaps this sparks fire better here than #lispcafe: what's a better way to annotate CLHS xrefs into an old paperback of CLtL2: going sequentially through the paperback, while indexing into the CLHS, or vice versa?
<phoe>
I'd try to do better than trying to spark fire over a paperback copy of CLtL2
<adlai>
the purpose is to have the paperback copy of CLtL2 be slightly more useful than just another primary source that no longer interests anyone; currently has not a single marking in any margin, so plenty of space for annotations
<Xach>
cltl2 continues to interest me personally!
<phoe>
I'd try to go linearly through CLtL2, searching CLHS on demand is much nicer since it's a hypertext resource
<Xach>
(sorry that this does not help with your question though)
<adlai>
Xach, why does cltl2 itself interest you?
<phoe>
I mean, flipping pages a lot costs time
<_death>
cltl2 is a cool book :)
<Xach>
adlai: it provides more anecdotal context and livelier prose for certain things - particularly logical pathnames but others as well
<adlai>
phoe, there's much to be said for readable reference texts, even if life is too short to actually read it sequentially, and too long to have empty spots in your "text coverage"
* adlai
was quite devastated to discover, recently, that all the internals of pprint machinery were not part of cltl2
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<bitmapper>
gnu common lisp is still actively developed?
<phoe>
bitmapper: yes and no
<bitmapper>
last commit 9 days ago
<phoe>
that's the "yes"
<phoe>
last release in 2014, that's the "no"
<bitmapper>
hey, clisp last release in 2010 iirc
<phoe>
correct
<phoe>
clisp isn't very active either.
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<phoe>
Xach: is there any way to manage ASDF via quicklisp? like, to ensure that it always has the newest version?
<Xach>
phoe: not built-in
<phoe>
Xach: tell me more about the "not built-in" option
<phoe>
is cloning ASDF into local-projects and loading it in RC enough?
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<Xach>
I don't know - I've never tried.
<Xach>
I think of asdf as the single file asdf.lisp and it's not part of the model of how quicklisp fetches and loads other software.
<Xach>
It's available at a fixed URL, though, and you could use quicklisp tools to fetch it into a particular place, compile it, and load it.
<phoe>
yes, it is enough
<phoe>
with ASDF checked into local projects and (ql:quickload :asdf) I get the bleeding edge version
<Xach>
there's that vaunted self-upgrade! worth all the code ugliness in ther world!
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<phoe>
correct - I can stand it as long as I don't peek into the source code
<Xach>
i can't tell if it was created by a madman or if it created a madman
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<jackdaniel>
lol
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<phoe>
why not both
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<jackdaniel>
because A => B is not the same as B => A, and we can't seriously say, that a man is the same thing as the update process of a software
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<shka_>
what is a man though?
<phoe>
a miserable little pile of #<unreadable object>
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<jeosol>
phoe, shka_: https://imgur.com/Df3ISoc here is a picture of the grid I was trying to load. Here the grid is viewed in Paraview (open-source graphics software)
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<phoe>
jeosol: I have no idea what it is but it sure looks complex
<jeosol>
this is after processing the file with SBCL and pushing a VTK file to Paraview
<jeosol>
it's how the subsurface looks like, you can think of those lines/breaks as faults that could come small earthquakes
<phoe>
I see
<jeosol>
This was why i couldn't share the file, it's highly domain-specific.
<phoe>
yes, I can imagine
<jeosol>
with the small code changes, its more stable and requires fewer memory now.
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<jeosol>
it's morning here, have to sleep.
<phoe>
see you! thanks
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<shka_>
jeosol: congratulations!
<shka_>
job well done :-)
<jeosol>
thanks. I finally got it to work.
<jeosol>
and with less memory after some code changes.
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