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<Yurik>
re
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<inkedmn>
anybody here?
<inkedmn>
i'm learning SML and i can't find a channel for it...
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<Yurik>
re
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<two-face>
hi
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<two-face>
hi mrvn_
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<two-face>
hi zack
<zack>
hi two-face
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<two-face>
let's see if a qt interface can work
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<two-face>
hi malc
<malc>
lo two-face
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<zack>
bye
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<ChoJin>
hi
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<taw>
anybody have experience with cameleon, epeire and the rest of stuff ?
<taw>
i haven't developed anything big in ocaml yet, and i have been using xemacs+tuareg so far
<cleverdra>
never ocaml, but thanks for mentioning epeire -- I hadn't heard of it.
<cleverdra>
never cameleon.
<taw>
cameleon and epeire seem to be requiring that i set up cvs for every program
<taw>
anyway, are they any better than xemacs+tuareg combo ?
<cleverdra>
Interesting. You don't want that?
<taw>
well, no
* cleverdra
shrugs.
<taw>
making tarballs from time to time by hand is enough for me
* taw
thinks that cvs means lot of additional efford for little benefit unless you have big project with lot of people working on it
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<Yurik>
re
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<two-face>
re
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<mr_bubbs>
hello, ocaml afficionados
<two-face>
hello you
<taw>
hello
<mr_bubbs>
what's everyone working on?
<mr_bubbs>
anything interesting?
<taw>
trying to find out how to use epeire and cameleon
<mr_bubbs>
ahh
<mr_bubbs>
have used neither before
<mr_bubbs>
I am working with the ocamlodbc guy in hopes to make it better
<two-face>
i'm working on a small ocaml binding for Qt
<mr_bubbs>
cool
<mr_bubbs>
I use Qt with C++
<mr_bubbs>
would be interesting with OCaml
<mr_bubbs>
C++ is awfully big, heh
<mr_bubbs>
really drags my machine down when I compile
<taw>
mmm, anybody can explain me how type inference works ?
<two-face>
well, i love c++ too :)
<mr_bubbs>
yeah.. I have made some pretty nice stuff with it, for sure
<taw>
the only think i like about c++ are templates
<mr_bubbs>
just kinda stinks if your machine can't compile it :)
<two-face>
memory management also
<cleverdra>
taw - what do you need explained?
<taw>
cleverdra: how computer can do it, i know how to infere by hand
<cleverdra>
taw - you can think of the computer doing it exactly how you do it, of course. I don't have nitty gritty details for you -- and I'm not sure how they're relevant; do you have a more precise question?
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<Yurik>
re
<two-face>
hi Yurik!
* Yurik
made namespaces for ocaml finally
<Yurik>
two-face: hi
<two-face>
you patched ocaml ?
* Yurik
is happy
<Yurik>
nope
<Yurik>
camlp4
<two-face>
ah
<Yurik>
and less than hour of work
<two-face>
does it work fine?
<Yurik>
:) well, i did not test it much, but is seems to be good
<Yurik>
it differs from my initial proposal, however
<two-face>
are you subscribed to the caml-list?
<Yurik>
now you can say 'module A in Org.Domain.Program = ...' and 'open A in Org.Domain.Program'
<Yurik>
yes, I'm subscribed
<Yurik>
even did toplevel ocamlns :)))
<two-face>
you are aware of daniel state of mind i guess
<two-face>
i've just seen he remove anything about camlp4 in ocaml CVS
<two-face>
The War is going on!
<two-face>
(in makefiles)
<taw>
what ?
<two-face>
daniel has removed anything about camlp4 in ocaml makefiles
<taw>
and what does it mean ?
<two-face>
i don't know
<two-face>
i don't even know if he's allowed to do so
<mr_bubbs>
that guy is a nutcase, hehe
<two-face>
of course
<two-face>
i'd say he's a nightmre
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<Yurik_>
re
<Yurik_>
got disconnected
<Yurik_>
have I missed something?
<mr_bubbs>
nothing
<Yurik_>
good
* Yurik_
is thinking how to make namespace even more handy
<taw>
mmm
<taw>
how does it work ?
<Yurik_>
just via preprocessor (camlp4)
<two-face>
Yurik_: daniel has removed anything about camlp4 in ocaml makefiles in ocaml CVS
<taw>
doesn't module system works like that ?
* taw
have never written anything big in ocaml
<Yurik_>
two-face: bah! camlp4 is great...will it be distributed separately?
<Yurik_>
taw: nope
<two-face>
Yurik_: dunno, i think the war is going on
<taw>
war ?
<taw>
mmm
<mr_bubbs>
two-face: there seriously need not be
<taw>
weird kind of open source community it is
<mr_bubbs>
OCaml is too small for this crap, heh
* Yurik_
is drinking one bottle of beer to celebrate namespaces (half of year passed to go to do it)
<two-face>
mr_bubbs: huh?
<mr_bubbs>
little fights over stupid stuff
<two-face>
:)
<taw>
is this fight over 'camlp4 shipped with ocaml or separately' or what ?
* Yurik_
thinks that camlp4 should be in ocaml
<Yurik_>
since I use it in OCamlGettext and OCamlNS
<Yurik_>
:))))
<two-face>
taw: it is
<taw>
what is OCamlGettext and OCamlNS ?
<two-face>
Yurik: what is you that wrote to me about a gettext-like app.
<two-face>
?
<taw>
ocaml has more syntactic extensions than any other languages let alone perl already
<Yurik_>
OCamlGettext is my library for GNU gettext support in ocaml
<Yurik_>
OCamlNS is a my new extension to ocaml for namespaces (see above)
<Yurik_>
two-face: well, now I have gettext support in caml apps... I binded gnu text and added _"string" extension
<two-face>
ok
<two-face>
Yurik_: please announce and release
<Yurik_>
two-face: I have no web space to release it currently
<two-face>
Yurik_: savannah.gnu.oth
<two-face>
Yurik_: savannah.gnu.org
<Yurik_>
two-face: and for ocamlgettext i have no makefile (since I use Cook instead of make(1))
<Yurik_>
two-face: or sf.net, I know.. I'm too lazy to register new projects... :)) and writing make(1) makefiles
<Yurik_>
:)
<two-face>
ok
* Yurik_
is executing his own program to make ocaml an industry language by adding needed libraries and features,
<taw>
mmm
<Yurik_>
if somebody could supply with make(1) makefile of ocamlgettext, I could be great and we can release it
<mr_bubbs>
can someone take a look at some string utilities I made?
<taw>
Yurik_: nice program indeed
<Yurik_>
mr_bubbs: yep
<Yurik_>
taw: which program?
<taw>
Yurik_: some regular expressions package like ruby object oriented regular expresions would be nice
* taw
is using ruby rather than ocaml now usually, but ocaml has many nice features too
<two-face>
there is a re lib at sf.net
<mr_bubbs>
yeah.. there's a pcre lib that's even thread-safe
<taw>
two-face: the point is to make it nice, not just for it to be
* Yurik_
has finished a bottle of beer
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<mr_bubbs>
Yurik_: congrats :)
<two-face>
bye now!
<Yurik_>
two-face: bye
<mr_bubbs>
see yas
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<taw>
oh, and could some person planning to make ocaml "industry language" upgrade gtk bindings to gtk 2.0 ?
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<taw>
;)
<mr_bubbs>
I think SWIG may help with that.. not sure, though
<taw>
mr_bubbs: unfortunately it wont
<Yurik_>
taw: i will do it some time, I think in 2003, when my ocaml based project will need it
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<taw>
i have program in ruby which has to use gtk 2.0
<mr_bubbs>
taw: maybe you can do it
<taw>
and it needs lot of glue code
<taw>
because of the same problem
<Yurik_>
taw: since currently I'm busy with another tasks on my projects, and it doesn't need gui now
<taw>
i tried with swig but it didn't really work
<Yurik_>
mr_bubbs: your library a bit overlays stew and rogare utilities :))
<mr_bubbs>
alright
<mr_bubbs>
I've heard of stew.. not of rogare, though
<Yurik_>
unfortunately, SWIG for ocaml sucks (for complicated bindings)
<mr_bubbs>
lots of things for OCaml seem to suck, atm
<taw>
swig just sucks in general
<mr_bubbs>
hopefully it improves, heh
<Yurik_>
I use use Stew and rogare_cstring from rogare utilties (they are in humps too)
<Yurik_>
btw. I think that we, ocaml users, should organize a project of making ocaml an industry language to supply it with needed features and libraries
<Yurik_>
if somebody is interested, of course
<mr_bubbs>
nobody seems to agree on anything, heh
<taw>
well, imho good rx lib and gtk 2.0 support are needed
<Yurik_>
since only ocaml community can help it grow. As for me, I think it's a time to start making it
<Yurik_>
taw: cos
<taw>
cos ?
<Yurik_>
we can organize a team that will review any aspects of spreading ocaml - how to do it, what we should add to it, and so on
<Yurik_>
cos == of course
<taw>
oh
<taw>
well, here we have classes in ocaml on uni
<Yurik_>
taw: in Poland?
<taw>
yup
<mr_bubbs>
Yurik_: well, I'd be interested in helping out
<Yurik_>
taw: great! here in Ukraine we have not
<mr_bubbs>
gonna go get something to eat.. bbiab
<taw>
university of wroclaw is special ;)
<taw>
on most polish unis they are still learning pascal
<Yurik_>
mr_bubbs: that's great. for the moment we can conversate here, or by e-mail, then we can setup maillist and web site for this
<mr_bubbs>
Yurik_: works for me
<Yurik_>
mr_bubbs: to put our texts, libraries, extensions and so on
<mr_bubbs>
would we be duplicating humps, in a way?
<Yurik_>
taw: heh, I envy you :) I haven't heard about such courses in Ukraine
<taw>
well, they have been teaching sml for ages
<taw>
just switched from sml to ocaml recently
<Yurik_>
mr_bubbs: I think no. Humps are just a list. I think that our site should not be a list, but kinda propaganda with our libs and exts
<Yurik_>
taw: great! It is great to hear that somebody is teaching ocaml near Ukraine, at least :))
<taw>
near ?
<taw>
you know where is wroclaw ?
<Yurik_>
taw: well, Poland is our neighbor :)
<Yurik_>
taw: so, near
<taw>
it's in very west poland
<Yurik_>
taw: i know
<Yurik_>
taw: I was only in Warsaw, and only for one night (between flights)
<taw>
Yurik_: where do you live anyway ? i was to lvov last summer
<Yurik_>
taw: I live in Kharkov, it is an east Ukraine
<taw>
oh
* Yurik_
still wasn't in Lvov, but some day will visit that beautiful city
<Yurik_>
taw: do you know Kharkov?
<Yurik_>
btw, in Ukrainian it is not Lvov, but Lviv
* taw
never was there
<taw>
even 'lvuv' in polish, phonetically
<taw>
well, center of lviv sure looks nice
<taw>
Yurik_: can you read in polish ?
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<Yurik__>
re
<taw>
Yurik__: can you read in polish ?
<Yurik__>
got disconnected again
<Yurik__>
have I missed something?
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<taw>
polish and ukrainian are quite similar
<Yurik>
taw: a bit
<Yurik>
taw: since it is very close to Ukranian, I can understand about 70%
<Yurik>
taw: I even watch polska TV sometimes from satellite
<Yurik>
the most big difference between our languages are alphabet and polish "sz", "rz" and so on
<taw>
i tried to read some ukrainian computer press when i was there, and i could more or lees understand that
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<Yurik>
taw: btw, "Jestem z Ukrainy" - is that right?
<Yurik>
taw: btw, how much people at your uni is learning ocaml?
<taw>
yes :)
<taw>
about 50 this semester
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<Yurik_>
re
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<Yurik_>
taw: great in Ukraine i know only one more guy that likes ocaml
<Yurik_>
taw: great. in Ukraine i know only one more guy that likes ocaml
<taw>
hmm
<taw>
are there many hackers in ukraine ?
<Yurik_>
yes
<Yurik_>
but most of them even did not heared about caml
<taw>
oh, and how popular is linux on ukraine ?
<taw>
i only managed to meet 'usual' people when i was there, not true hackers
<Yurik_>
well, it is quite popular, especially after microsoft started their campaign to punish users of pirate copies of m$ products :)
<taw>
non-hackers use it too ?
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<Yurik_>
yes, some companies are moving to it
<Yurik_>
and we have a project of law that will prevent of use of propiertary software in public sector
<Yurik_>
however, it is only a project of law, not true law
<Yurik_>
author of this project was at the ukranian open-source conference this sempteber, and had a speech
<taw>
and as we are speaking about laws, you seem to have some problems with your president, right ?
<Yurik_>
yeah
<taw>
what is it all about ?
<Yurik_>
a lot of aspects... opposition want to move him out, u.s. think he selled anti-radar systems to Iraq
<Yurik_>
so he is under a strong pressure now
<Yurik_>
from the both sides
<Yurik_>
anyway, it is his last term, he could not be elected anymore
<taw>
mmm, you didn't have any democracy before right ?
<taw>
on ukraine
<taw>
in particular on east ukraine
<taw>
we were having some kind of democracy since late medieval times, so system change went much easier here
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<Yurik_>
have i missed something?
* Yurik_
is smoking and planning this night's development
<taw>
smoking what ?
<Yurik_>
cigarette
<taw>
that's bad for your health !
<Yurik_>
i know, it is my bad habit
<Yurik_>
btw, guys, had anyone faced with segfaults in mlraise()?
<Yurik_>
seems that not..:)
* Yurik_
will be back later this night
<Yurik_>
cu all
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<Yurik_>
Torquemada: hi
<Torquemada>
hi yurik
* Yurik_
added 'open Mod in Ns as ModName' construct to ocamlns
<taw>
Yurik_: you are using modems in ukraine or what ?
<Yurik_>
taw: well... at home i use modem connection
<taw>
here these ericsson HIS 115kbit modems with monthly flat rate of 35 euro are quite popular
* Yurik_
envies taw
<taw>
normal modems are used very often too
<taw>
hehe
<taw>
btw. do ukrainians consider moving to poland ?
<Yurik_>
we have our virtual-permanent connection modems manufactured here in ukraine, 115k too
<Yurik_>
they are xDSL
<taw>
what is monthly fee for them ?
<gl>
115kbits -> 35 euros !?
<taw>
gl: yup
<gl>
we have 512/128 for 30 euros
<taw>
mmm, you can get better line for smaller price if you live in big city
<Yurik_>
monthly fee for xDSL 115k is about 10-20 euros plus traffic (about 10c/mb)
<gl>
oh there is quota... :/
<taw>
quota ?
<gl>
if you pay the mb
<Yurik_>
anyway, cu later (dialup is an expensive thing)