Yurik changed the topic of #ocaml to: http://icfpcontest.cse.ogi.edu/ -- OCaml wins | http://www.ocaml.org/ | http://caml.inria.fr/oreilly-book/ | http://icfp2002.cs.brown.edu/ | SWIG now supports OCaml| Early releases of OCamlBDB and OCamlGettext are available
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<arav> Hey... bit of a question. How do I implement something like ML's 'as' in a match statement. I know you can, I just can't remember how. (i.e. x as Constructor(var1, var2)
<whee> Blah x y as something?
<whee> I forget. hm :|
<arav> yup!
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<whee> anyone know what the 'dynamics' branch of ocaml cvs is?
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<systems> ocaml ownzor
<mrvn> How do I get a random number in ocaml?
<systems> does this solve it ??
<mrvn> thx
<mrvn> Is it a good random generator?
<systems> dont know
<systems> try and see
<systems> i am also still learning
<systems> just lucky i just saw that in the faq few minutes ago
<systems> and you came here askin , like , wow , no wonder they call it faq
<systems> hehe :)
<mrvn> Unbound value random__int
<mrvn> Its Random.int but the faq says random__int
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<Yurik__> hi all
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<Zavie[Caml]> Hello !
<ayrnieu`> hello Zavie.
<Zavie[Caml]> ^_^
<Zavie[Caml]> Does anyone know ocamldoc ?
<ayrnieu`> Not me, sorry. Why do you ask?
<Zavie[Caml]> To learn some usefull options and so on...
<Zavie[Caml]> It's a tool which makes a complete doc from a source code :)))
<karryall> Zavie[Caml]: there's a manual
<Zavie[Caml]> I've found a PS version, but I haven't any tool to red or convert this format. I've tryed to download GS, but without succes :-/
<karryall> it's online too
<Zavie[Caml]> thanks ! :-D
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<olczyk> IS there a good xml and html parser availbe in Caml?
<ayrnieu`> The only thing I've seen is PXP, which doesn't seem to be what you want.
<olczyk> Ah. Why not.
<olczyk> I need something that can handle any kind of web page that's thrown at it.
<olczyk> I had lots of experience with all sorts of html/xml parsers. They all seem to choke at some point when thrown
<olczyk> a badly enough designed web page.
<olczyk> I want/need something that can handle virtually anything. I don't really care what language it's in.
* Zavie[test_cmldo finds that ocamldoc is really amazing ! :-)
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<olczyk> ayrnieu`:: I don't know if you are still here, but if you are. It seems that PXP doesn't even come close.
<olczyk> I think it is silly to go gaga over an XML parser. There are tons that do the job well. IT's parsing HTML well
<olczyk> that's hard.
<smkl> perhaps try something that's used in a browser
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<Yurik> re
<Zavie[EPITA]> 'lu/hi :)
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<gl> epita hu..
<gl> 101010.. -> 42.. surprising :)
<Zavie[ocamldoc]> ^_^
<gl> a soft named ocamweb (still in dev..) could be interesting for you, zavie
<gl> it's buggy, but funny
* Zavie[ocamldoc] went to see that...
<Yurik> unfortuantely, ocamlweb is not natural literate programming tool
<Yurik> ocamlweb is pretty-printing tool more than literate programming
<gl> i use it as a little tool, to format my code in .ps
* Yurik is developing mWEB (\muWEB) that will be a true WEB tool w/ features from FunnelWeb, CWEB and formatting backends to make code nice as in ocamlweb from time to time
<Zavie[ocamldoc]> interesting :)
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<Miwong> hello
<Zavie[ocamldoc]> Hello :)
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<Zavie[ocamldoc]> Well, have to go :)
<Zavie[ocamldoc]> Bye
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<Yurik> re
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<two-face> hi
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<Yurik> re
<Yurik> hi all!
<two-face> Yuriiiii !
<two-face> Yurik da supastah da Namespace!
<Yurik> two-face: hi :-)
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<Yurik> btw, about namespaces... I'll release new version soon
<two-face> :)
<Yurik> it will contain namespace retrieval and dependencies soon
<systems> new version of what
<systems> who are you
<two-face> are there people insterested in working on a Qt binding?
<Yurik> currently I define nemaespace descriptors as XML documents
<Yurik> systems: of ocamlns, namespace extension to ocaml
<Yurik> systems: I'm Yurii :-)
<systems> >:]
<Yurik> two-face: I've plans to make it in 2003, when my project will need Qt clients
<two-face> Yurik: i've already started the job
* Yurik is drinking an excellent Chernigevske beer celebrating future seminar at Moscow about E/AS
<Yurik> two-face: good! If you want, I can help you (within my possibilities)
<systems> e/as
<systems> what is that
<two-face> Yurik: ok
<Yurik> systems: E/AS is a E/AS Software Foundation that is currently working on Bauss project which is aimed to provide a next-generation open source business automation framework
<Yurik> :)
<Yurik> two-face: what you've done already?
<two-face> Yurik: some widget classes
<two-face> Yurik: the most difficult is signal slots
<two-face> Yurik: it will need some C++ glue code to trick
* AndyA ponders where Yurik got Chernigevske beer
<Yurik> two-face: have you found a solution already?
<Yurik> AndyA: in Ukraine, of course
<systems> business automation framework , this doesnt mean much , anything can be called business automation
<systems> :)
<two-face> Yurik: i'm in contact wth Jacques Garrigue, he gave me some ideas
<Yurik> systems: well, it is a common framework of data transfer and invocation
<AndyA> isn't SWIG will help to make a glue?
<Yurik> SWIG sucks (at least for me)
<Yurik> two-face: Jacques is a cool guy :-)
<AndyA> Yurik: glad to meet someone from here
<Yurik> AndyA: oh, you are from Odessa? :-)
<two-face> Yurik: he used to start a qt binding but gave up, he sent me his code
<AndyA> Yurik: dp you have other tool to make this unpleasant task more aesy?
<AndyA> Yurik: yes
<Yurik> AndyA: what do you mean? "dp you..."
<Torquemada> do, i guess :)
<AndyA> Yurik: i mean do you, sorry :)
<Yurik> AndyA: cool! I'm from Kharkov. You're second people from Ukraine that knows about OCaml i've met
<AndyA> Yurik: i came here to take a bit more taste about it
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<two-face> zack !!
<Yurik> AndyA: ok, you mean about business automation? Well, all exsiting solutions aren't suitable for me and guys from my team... that is why...
<zack> hi!
<AndyA> Yurik: i'm still be tied to Lisp
<Yurik> AndyA: come here to us, to Caml community! :-))
<Yurik> AndyA: If you'll join there will be 3 guys interested in OCaml here in Ukraine :-)
<AndyA> Yurik: i'm trying :)
<two-face> lisp is quite nice too ; my favourite editor is lisp-made ;-)
<Yurik> Lisp is really very nice, i agree
<AndyA> Yurik: i still have some troubles with ML syntax, but i see what i cam get if i will dig throug it
<Yurik> but caml seems to be more practical, may be.. anyway, i got caml as a brilliant language to implement my needs in good fashion and speed of development
<AndyA> Lisp is good for another tasks
<AndyA> here is place for both of them
<systems> Lisp syntax is a joke and totalement un-acceptable
<two-face> you get used to it
<AndyA> system: just use proper tools and don't read parentesies :)
<Yurik> AndyA: well, as for me, i got some problems in ML syntax while studying it. but when got an idea - I falled in love with it :-)
<Yurik> yes, you're absolutely right - both of them has a place in this world :-)
<two-face> some Playstation games are written in common lisp
* Yurik found that he is drinking a last liter of beer :)
<Yurik> the last of 3 litres :)
<systems> lisp syntax is still a joke
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<systems> thank God lisp is as unpopular as it is
<Yurik> well, parenthesis was a real pain in the a.. :) but it is inhabitual only for some amount of time..
<AndyA> systems: is ocaml more popular? :)
<systems> yes
<AndyA> systems: i'm not sure
<two-face> Lisp has a lot of niches, it is certainly not unpopular
<Yurik> ocaml is less popular, unfortunately
<AndyA> and lisp macro system has something in it
<two-face> lisp is also an ANSI standard
<Yurik> yeah... ocaml has no standard.. it's bad.
<AndyA> anyway i don't bother in how languare is popular, i only bother how good is it to solve my problems
<two-face> of course
<systems> I download this file that lambda the ultimate site, it's an intro to lambda calculus , i will probably, spend the night readin it, it's only 55 pages
<Yurik> as for me, caml let me program in qualitative and fast manner
<two-face> where?
<systems> ocaml has no standard ??? ocaml has only one distributor !! as far as i know
<Yurik> yes, only one
<systems> so why does it need standard
<Yurik> but standard make it more popular, i think
<Yurik> like Standard ML has
<systems> python is almost the same case and python is fairly popular
<two-face> Ada is used where I work
<Yurik> but... ocaml is very fast in evolution... hard to have a standard
<whee> ocaml has no standard because it doesn't need one
<whee> noone would attempt to write an entirely new compiler with the language, there's no point
<AndyA> standard is needed for commercial acceptance
<two-face> yes, but you know, industry want standards :)
<Yurik> the most important thing ocaml is needed is a set of popular libs :-)
<two-face> systems: thx
<systems> i found this document very enlightening
<AndyA> Lambda the Ultimate?
<systems> it shows if i understood correctly
<whee> two-face: then the industry's never going to use ocaml :D
<two-face> whee: it does
<Yurik> well, as I've heard some industries use it
<AndyA> or what is this document?
<Yurik> in france
<whee> but there's never going to be a standard really
<systems> the theories behind , imperatif and functional programming
<two-face> some companies in France
<Yurik> banks?
<Yurik> i've heard that some of bank machines uses it
<whee> every time someone brings up ocaml syntax (the camlp4 guy for instance), the compiler dismisses it as being 'just syntax'. noone will ever agree on anythin
<Yurik> credit card machines i mean
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<whee> s/compiler/ compiler people/
<systems> imperatif programming became more popular
<Yurik> imperative programming is painful
<AndyA> France is a bithplace of OCaml :)
<systems> what is so terrible about ocaml syntax !!!!
<AndyA> at some moment imperative become very evil
<whee> systems: ambiguous in too many places for my liking
<Yurik> in fact, /me is trying to make ocaml more popular at least at the ex-USSR space
<whee> that's why I use revised syntax D:
<Yurik> ocaml syntax is quite easy
* Yurik tried to use revised syntax for some amount of time, but got that it is not so good as original one
<AndyA> systems: it's terrible in only one thing - it's different :)
<whee> it has places where you really don't know what it'll do by glancing at it if perhaps your indentation is misleading
<Yurik> even 'let' is better :-)
<AndyA> systems: like you find Lisp syntax terrible
<systems> lisp syntax is hard on the eye, and takes a lot of time to figure out what is inside what
* whee loves s-expressions
<systems> it's can be easy to write using emacs , but its terrible to read
<Yurik> AndyA: btw. if you want to hear about a project that uses ocaml anywhere when it can, come to Moscow at 9 Dec
<systems> (()()()()()()))))((())))())))()()()()()()()))))))
<systems> gee
<whee> heh
<whee> use vim with syntax highlighting :P
<whee> you could have each nested parenthesis a different shade and go by that for instance
<AndyA> systems: you do common mistake, you read perentesies
<systems> you would have to do extreme code indentation to make it readable
<whee> you need indentation regardless of the language
<AndyA> systems: skip them and read identations
<AndyA> Yurik: what will be there at 9 Dec?
<Yurik> AndyA: my seminar about my project
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<Yurik> AndyA: at ALT Linux seminar program
<AndyA> Yurik: got it
<Yurik> AndyA: short info on it is published on www.altlinux.ru news
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<Yurik> AndyA: i'm a first ukranian at alt linux seminar. Alex Novodvorsky has invited me at OSDN.org.ua conference this year
<Yurik> :))
<whee> does ocaml have a lisp-esque macro system that I glanced over somehow?
<AndyA> Yurik: looks like i did part of your great project :)
<AndyA> whee: nope
<MegaWatS> whee: no, but that is what camlp4 is for
<whee> okay that's what I figured
<whee> :|
<Yurik> AndyA: ?
<AndyA> Yurik: i did a system for document flow
<AndyA> Yurik: i will try to come in Moskow
<Yurik> AndyA: which doc flow system?
<Yurik> AndyA: well, if you'll come, i'll be happy. about departure to Moscow you can contact me by yrashk@openeas.org or (0572) 331232 :-)
<AndyA> Yurik: custom system, doesn't matter anyway :)
<AndyA> i found that i did it not in a best way
<Yurik> AndyA: anyway, your experience is very interesting for me :-)
<Yurik> AndyA: since one of the wants of my system was document flow/chain system
<AndyA> Yurik: them let's try to dicsuss it some day :)
<AndyA> Yurik: i understood it by looking at alt-linux site
<Yurik> AndyA: that's cool, let's discuss it some day, really
<Yurik> :)
<Yurik> AndyA: sorry, what uyou've understood from alt-linux? :)
<Yurik> AndyA: just missed a point
<AndyA> do you know any interesting libraries for ocaml that aren't a part of standard distribution?
<Yurik> AndyA: depending on what you want :-)
<AndyA> Yurik: i understood what do you working on now
<AndyA> Yurik: some net stuff :(
<Yurik> AndyA: ah
<Yurik> AndyA: netclient and so on?
<AndyA> soap implementation, wdsl implementation
<Yurik> AndyA: look at humps, somebody did ocaml-soap
<AndyA> this buzzworded stuff :)
<AndyA> what is humps?
<two-face> bye
<Yurik> AndyA: caml.inria.fr/humps/
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<Yurik> two-face: bye
<AndyA> thanks
<Yurik> AndyA: btw, may I write down your e-mail to contact you regarding document flow system?
* Yurik is a looking at his 1l bottle... it is finishing... eeeh
<systems> you should not drink alcoholic beverages anyway
<systems> it's not good
<AndyA> systems: what is good then? :)
<Yurik> systems: sometimes alcohol is good, however not on a regular basis :)
<Yurik> drinking beer, anyway, is not so bad :-)
<AndyA> again, on non-regular basis :)
<Yurik> cheers! if you like Cherngiviske (or Obolon, or Slavutich, or Stella Artois or Rogan), you're welcome :-)
* AndyA rofl
<systems> i dont drink
* Yurik envies systems. i drink from time to time, as a usual slavanian - drinking A LOT
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<systems> you envie me :)
<systems> good for you maybe one day you will quit it
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<Yurik> systems: may be :)
* AndyA hugs owll
<Yurik> owll: you got my mail :-))
<owll> hios :)
<AndyA> owl: glad to see you
<owll> Yurik: you too
<AndyA> owl: sam takoi :)
<Yurik> :)))))
<AndyA> owl: how is PMac 7500?
<Yurik> owll: you got a mac?
<AndyA> Yurik: he had them always :)
<owll> few macs :)
<owll> AndyA: postavili tuda normalniy power source -- rabotaet
* Yurik envies owll more and more
<AndyA> owl: to est' ne otdaesh' bol'she? :)
<owll> larchik prosto otkryvalsya...
<Yurik> mac - a dream - last time i seen a mac - 1998, in Paris
<owll> AndyA: tak zabrali :) -- znakomym perepal doxlyi 7200, iz 2x kompov sobrali 1 :)
<AndyA> :(((
<owll> AndyA: naveshali na nego stroi scsi peripherals, i raduyutsya :)
<AndyA> owl: a chego im ne radovat'sya to?
<owll> Yurik: you menya ix schas 2... toka eto uzhe ne te chto byli :(
<AndyA> owl: ehhhh... nado bylo tebya v sentyabre ne zalet', a budit; :)
<Yurik> owll: heh
<owll> AndyA: da oni voobsche-to video zanimayutsya, you nix bol'she 1GHz G4 v xodu
<Yurik> owll: ne ponyat' tebe moej zavidy :-))
<owll> AndyA: otozh, ya kstati zhdal, chto ty ego zaberesh
<owll> AndyA: est' esche 6100/60, no eto uboische...
<AndyA> owl: my rano podorvalis' prosto
<AndyA> owl: neee, spasibo :)
<owll> Yurik: xochesh PowerMac 6100/60? :)
<owll> Yurik: dlya potraxat'sya eto samaya luchshaya prisposoba... :)))
<whee> hahhahaha
<AndyA> owll: a G4 eshe ne razdaesh'? :)
<whee> oh boy wrong channel :(
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<AndyA> owll: drop me your current e-mail, pls
<AndyA> and let's switch to english on public channel :)
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<owll> AndyA: tot zhe chto i byl + owl@hedi.org.ua
<AndyA> got it
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<owll> AndyA: $$$ shukayu :))
<AndyA> owl: any success in your findings? :)
<owll> AndyA: hmmm ... a few :)
<AndyA> owl: ant plans to start new projects?
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<owll> AndyA: many plans, but no $$$, esp. thanks for US IT market stagnation
<AndyA> owl: why not look at other markets? :)
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<Yurik> re
<Yurik> got disconnected
<owll> AndyA: i'd look at NN :)
<owll> Yurik: wb
<AndyA> Yurik: wb
<AndyA> owl: what is NN?
<Yurik> netscape?
* AndyA grins
<owll> Yurik: from 9:30, i think
<owll> AndyA: neural networks
<Yurik> owll: ok :-) if i'll not distrurb you w/ some questions
<AndyA> ok, time to go
<AndyA> hope to see you again soon. bye
<owll> Yurik: btw, i'll be test OcamlBDB tomorrow
<owll> AndyA: bb!
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<owll> Yurik: treba spat' tozhe :)
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<Yurik> re
<Yurik> later
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