gl changed the topic of #ocaml to: OCaml 3.07 ! -- Archive of Caml Weekly News: http://pauillac.inria.fr/~aschmitt/cwn , A tutorial: http://merjis.com/richj/computers/ocaml/tutorial/ , A free book: http://cristal.inria.fr/~remy/cours/appsem, Mailing List (best ml ever for any computer language): http://caml.inria.fr/bin/wilma/caml-list | http://icfpcontest.org/ !!
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<Nutssh> Hi all.
<slashvar1lri]> Yop
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<Nutssh> How are you.
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<seafood> Hey, does anyone know here whether there is a native code compiler for Mac OS X?
<seafood> Does anyone *not* know whether theere is a native code compiler for Mac OS X?
<seafood> :-)
<Petruchio> I, for one, have no idea.
* Petruchio is pleased to be of assistance.
* bk_ shrugs
* seafood is thankful to Petruchio for stating his ignorance :)
* Petruchio bows.
<Petruchio> I can *always* help with that. :-)
<seafood> So, are you all die-hard OCaml hackers here, or do some of you just think it's a cool language for some purposes?
<seafood> Anyone use Ocaml in preference to Haskell?
<Petruchio> I'm totally new to it. Just hanging out because it looks interesting.
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<bk_> haskell forces monads upon me, thats one reason why i prefer ocaml
<seafood> bk_: Yeah, monads are pretty hard to get your mind around.
<bk_> i just think they are not very practical
<seafood> I'm trying out OCaml because I don't believe that Haskell a) creates small enough binaries b) decreased the performance hit of laziness enough.
<seafood> s/decreased/decreases/
<seafood> bk_: Monads have a few drawbacks but they *are* pure. That is one reason I can tolerate them.
<bk_> i don't quite see whats so beneficial about pureness
<seafood> bk_: But the annoying thing is that once you start coding in a monadic style you can't "get out of" the monad (if it is the IO monad).
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<mayhem> hi people
<seafood> bk_: Purity is important for things like referential transparency - a powerful reasoning technique.
<seafood> s/technique/principle/
<bk_> yes, well, i'm only learning functional programming and for the little stuff that i do monads and pureness appear to be overkill
<seafood> Let's face it - references can be dangerous. You can run the same function twice with the same arguments and you can get different behaviour.
<seafood> This is impossible in Haskell.
<seafood> Still, I'm interested in OCaml. It produces really fast code.
<seafood> And I like that.
<seafood> Mainly because it's strict.
<bk_> oh well gotta go :>
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<Nutssh> I've been meaning to learn haskell, but I use ocaml whenever I can.
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<jlouis> seafood: ref trans takes laziness to get power anyway. I'd rather prefer to be able to mix the paraigms
<det> "ref trans"?
<det> oh, nm
<Nutssh> Definitely. I don't use refs often, but when I do, they're really nice.
<jlouis> not that
<jlouis> referential transparency
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<Banana> hello.
<Banana> seafood: you might be disappointed if you use ocaml for "small-sized" binaries... (the strict and fast argument are more than enough though :))
<jlouis> Banana: what is a hello world program anyway in size?
<jlouis> (stripped)
<jlouis> it is 85k here in MLton
<karryall> 70k with ocamlopt
<mattam> 100ko
<mattam> (using Print :)
<mattam> Printf
<Banana> echo 'print_endline "Hello World"' >hello.ml
<Banana> ocamlopt -o hello hello.ml
<Banana> -rwxr-xr-x 1 kim kim 110K 2004-06-14 16:36 hello
<Banana> well 72k if you strip (my bad).
<Banana> the same C program (striped) is 2876 bytes.
<Banana> it was just to say that as ocaml binary includes code for GC it might not be the better choice for small binaries.
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<Nutssh> And thats not too bad anyways. A 1.2kloc program I did only comes to 164k stripped.
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<cDlm> hi, which emacs mode do you use ? caml-mode does not seem to fontify much...
<mayhem> cDlm: setenv TERM linux
<mayhem> + tuareg (e.g. M-x tuareg-mode)
<cDlm> why setenv term ?
<mayhem> if you term is vt100, the fontifying is quite weak
<mayhem> linux term is ok, you should get colors
<karryall> cDlm: maybe you need to do a M-x load-library caml-font
<cDlm> i dont use emacs in terms
<cDlm> yes, I (require 'caml-font), but I only get comments colored
<cDlm> anyway, tuareg works, so I'll stick to it
<karryall> weird, it works fine for me
<cDlm> caml-font seems to redefine faces directly, which is not cool
<cDlm> font-lock faces
<cDlm> bah nevermind
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