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<
seafood >
Anyone know anything about printing data types in ocaml? Is there an equivalent to Haskell's show?
03:19
<
hoisie >
seafood: returning them in the top-level prints them
03:19
<
hoisie >
but i there isn't a polymorphic print function
03:19
<
seafood >
I want to be able to print them inside my program without having to write the damn print function myself.
03:19
<
seafood >
It's a lot of work!
03:23
<
hoisie >
seafood: you
*could* write something like that in C, and then interface it to Caml
03:23
<
hoisie >
actually, i dont know if thats even possible...
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<
debona|r >
not much talk here, eh?
04:12
<
monotonom >
You can talk about something.
04:14
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04:19
<
debona|r >
have you been using ocaml for long>
04:19
<
debona|r >
what's your favorite reference page to look up functions ?
04:20
<
debona|r >
and... what's your favorite part about ocaml?
04:22
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<
debona|r >
hm, I'm finally able to read this stuff
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05:33
<
mrsolo >
how much slower is oo style ocaml?
05:34
<
debona|r >
oo style ocaml? isn't ocaml oo by definition?
05:34
<
Riastradh >
No, it has a kludge-on object system.
05:35
<
debona|r >
sortof like perl's object system?
05:36
<
debona|r >
(but hopefully much better)
05:37
<
mattam >
mrsolo: slower than what ?
05:39
<
debona|r >
than non oo style, I'd assume he means
05:41
<
mattam >
well, you can do different things, but a (not virtual) method call has approximately the same cost as a regular function call (IIRC)
05:42
<
mrsolo >
well is there someting like ocaml module system can't do?
05:43
<
mrsolo >
i am just start learning ocaml
05:43
<
Riastradh >
Exist at run-time?
05:43
<
mrsolo >
i am more familair with oop than functional now..
05:43
<
Riastradh >
Then it would be good to learn, wouldn't it?
05:44
<
mrsolo >
that is why i am here.. frankly not too interested in oo aspect of ocaml if module system is sufficient
05:59
<
det >
All method calls in OCaml are virtual
05:59
<
det >
and much more expensive than a function call
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05:59
<
det >
mrsolo: for what reasons are interested in the OO aspects?
06:00
<
det >
mrsolo: you like implementation inheritence, or mostly interface inheritance?
06:00
<
mrsolo >
no interest
06:00
<
mrsolo >
just learning the language
06:00
<
det >
mrsolo: did you get my last 2 lines about virtual method calls?
06:01
<
mrsolo >
and come across some discussion that ocaml oo implementation can be substainally slower
06:01
<
mrsolo >
which can take away ocaml speed advantage
06:01
<
det >
23:24 < det> All method calls in OCaml are virtual
06:01
<
det >
23:24 < det> and much more expensive than a function call
06:02
<
det >
it has a dispatch system like ObjC
06:02
<
det >
(I dont think) it takes advatnage of any of the static typing
06:03
<
mrsolo >
but slow is relative isn't it.. well as long as it is still comparable to java
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06:03
<
det >
faster than java still I am sure
06:04
<
det >
but all the things you can do with objects you can accomplish with closures/modules/functors
06:04
<
mrsolo >
just which implementation is mor elegant
06:05
<
det >
As far as i am concerned, the only positive thing about OO is interface inheritance
06:06
<
mrsolo >
can't do that with modules easily hmm?
06:07
<
det >
closures can :)
06:08
<
mrsolo >
lots of languges have both system
06:08
<
mrsolo >
usually just good at one of them
06:09
<
det >
you mean, modules and OO ?
06:09
<
det >
what besides *ML supports ML style modules?
06:10
<
mrsolo >
nothing i am awared of
06:10
<
debona|r >
match .. with is a bit like case statements, are they not?
06:10
<
mrsolo >
but it is the concept of breaking up program logics
06:11
<
mrsolo >
perl modules, perl class, python module, python class etc
06:18
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<
vegai >
python's kinda good in both
06:45
<
vegai >
though the OO in that doesn't probably impress hardcore OO-programmers
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<
mattam >
det: what do you do with closures ?
06:59
<
det >
mattam: I was talking about implementation inheritance, where you can have a collection of hetergenous object with a unified interface
06:59
<
det >
you can replaces objects with a records of closures
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<
seafood >
how do you quote a " in a string?
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<
Nutssh >
Objects also give you the ability to do subtyping.
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16:41
<
avlondono >
hello, anyone uses ocamllex here?
16:42
* avlondono
can't even ocamllex the manual example
16:42
<
avlondono >
I get: Reference to unbound regexp name `as' at char 227
16:43
<
avlondono >
must be something really stupid but I don't see the error
16:43
<
Banana >
got the file somewhere ?
16:43
<
avlondono >
nope, my own lex file was getting that, so I decided to type the example in the manual, and still
16:47
<
Banana >
the 12.6 section "A complete exemple" ?
16:47
<
avlondono >
probably is something really simple ... /me is rusty with lex
16:47
<
avlondono >
gives an error with the as. why?
16:49
<
Banana >
it works for me.
16:49
<
Banana >
which version of ocaml ?
16:49
<
avlondono >
it looks good to me
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<
Banana >
which editor do you use ?
16:51
<
Banana >
so not a "weird space character in a strange charset" problem.
16:51
<
avlondono >
not at all
16:51
<
avlondono >
if I remove all the as, it produces the .ml at least, but any as produces the error
16:54
<
Banana >
i try your code too ...
16:54
<
Banana >
works like a charm.
16:54
<
Banana >
are you using 3.07+2 ?
16:54
<
Banana >
or juste 3.07 ?
16:55
<
avlondono >
oh damn. 3.06 probably the emerge failed! sorry for my mistake Banana
16:56
<
avlondono >
you are always helpful, remember the Itanium bug?
16:56
<
Banana >
always a pleasure to see someone bitch over emerge.
16:56
<
avlondono >
hehe, still I like it
16:56
<
Banana >
(it was specially dedicated to mattam ;))
16:56
<
Banana >
avlondono: yes that rings a bell...
16:58
<
avlondono >
well, it was a mod 1 call that triggered the error
16:58
<
avlondono >
(who wants a mod 1 calculation anyway?)
17:00
<
Banana >
well i've seen people adding an "or false" to a conditionnal on purpose.
17:00
<
Banana >
(not in ocaml... but still).
17:00
<
Banana >
to avoid optimisations.
17:00
<
basti_ >
#define TRUE 0
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17:02
<
Banana >
for benchmarking purposes.
17:04
<
avlondono >
why is it flagged in gentoo?
17:04
<
avlondono >
sorry, ocaml 3.07 apparently is unstable ... in x86?
17:05
<
avlondono >
oh well, just ignore me ... already installed
17:05
<
Banana >
you better ask mattam
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17:05
<
avlondono >
probably is some configuration of mine, should check carefully before bothering him
17:10
<
avlondono >
thanks mattam
17:10
<
dobrek_ >
mattam: where can I read what does it mean to put smthing in overlay ?
17:11
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<
dobrek_ >
ok it was simple
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21:25
<
dan|el >
the silence
21:25
<
Nutssh >
Well, you can describe how much you like ocaml.:)
21:26
<
dan|el >
I asked first :)
21:26
<
dan|el >
never got a reply yesterday though
21:27
<
Nutssh >
What was the question?
21:27
<
dan|el >
what you just asked
21:28
<
Nutssh >
I never asked a question.
21:28
<
dan|el >
let's pretend your statement was phrased as a question :P
21:28
<
dan|el >
I just started looking at ocaml actually
21:28
<
dan|el >
but it looks fun
21:29
<
dan|el >
I was wondering also what people's favorite feature of the language is
21:29
<
Nutssh >
Ocaml is pretty nice. Closures and GC.
21:29
<
Nutssh >
Toss in the lack of having to do type annotations, and that you can't really crash at runtime.
21:29
<
dan|el >
hm, I only got to chapter 3 yesterday. closures?
21:30
<
dan|el >
yeah, I can't wait to start a project with it
21:30
<
Nutssh >
Closures are when you return a function that is closed over an environment.. '' let f x = fun y -> x+y '' '' let g = f 12 ''
21:32
<
Nutssh >
In this case, g is f closed over some state (the value of x)... Now I can pass g to anything that wants an int->int .
21:33
<
jlouis >
I like the tierm lexical scoping much more than closures
21:33
<
dan|el >
but f there required int -> int
21:34
<
Nutssh >
Type it in... val f : int -> int -> int
21:34
<
Nutssh >
jlouis, I don't know.. Doesn't C have lexical scoping?
21:34
<
jlouis >
not with the added constraint of first-class functions ;)
21:35
<
Nutssh >
C has lexical scoping and 'first class functions', if you count function pointers as first class functions. :)
21:36
<
Nutssh >
Whatever terminology we want to call it, closures are awesome. :)
21:36
<
jlouis >
sure they are
21:37
<
jlouis >
hindley-milner type inference too
21:39
<
jlouis >
and GC, and proper tail-calls
21:39
<
jlouis >
though I program more SML than Ocaml ;)
21:42
<
mellum >
gcc has lexically scoped functions as an extension :)
21:43
<
jlouis >
actually, what makes the ML languagaes nice are their selection of features
21:43
<
jlouis >
many of them are found in other languages, but it is the mix that is unique
21:44
<
jlouis >
pattern matching is something I've had a hard time living without too
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<
det >
mellum: with gcc I can write the equivalent of: let makeAdder n = fun x -> n + x ?
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23:09
<
Nutssh >
No, gcc has inner functions, not closures.
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