gl changed the topic of #ocaml to: OCaml 3.07 ! -- Archive of Caml Weekly News: http://pauillac.inria.fr/~aschmitt/cwn , A tutorial: http://merjis.com/richj/computers/ocaml/tutorial/ , A free book: http://cristal.inria.fr/~remy/cours/appsem, Mailing List (best ml ever for any computer language): http://caml.inria.fr/bin/wilma/caml-list | http://icfpcontest.org/ !!
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<Axioplase> ++
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<Nutssh> ?
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<seafood> Anyone know anything about printing data types in ocaml? Is there an equivalent to Haskell's show?
<hoisie> seafood: returning them in the top-level prints them
<hoisie> but i there isn't a polymorphic print function
<seafood> I want to be able to print them inside my program without having to write the damn print function myself.
<seafood> It's a lot of work!
<hoisie> seafood: you *could* write something like that in C, and then interface it to Caml
<seafood> ouch.
<hoisie> actually, i dont know if thats even possible...
<hoisie> hehe
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<debona|r> not much talk here, eh?
<monotonom> You can talk about something.
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<debona|r> have you been using ocaml for long>
<debona|r> ?
<debona|r> what's your favorite reference page to look up functions ?
<debona|r> and... what's your favorite part about ocaml?
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<debona|r> hm, I'm finally able to read this stuff
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<mrsolo> hello
<mrsolo> how much slower is oo style ocaml?
<debona|r> oo style ocaml? isn't ocaml oo by definition?
<Riastradh> No, it has a kludge-on object system.
<debona|r> sortof like perl's object system?
<debona|r> (but hopefully much better)
<mattam> mrsolo: slower than what ?
<debona|r> than non oo style, I'd assume he means
<mattam> well, you can do different things, but a (not virtual) method call has approximately the same cost as a regular function call (IIRC)
<mrsolo> well is there someting like ocaml module system can't do?
<mrsolo> i am just start learning ocaml
<Riastradh> Exist at run-time?
<mrsolo> i am more familair with oop than functional now..
<Riastradh> Then it would be good to learn, wouldn't it?
<mrsolo> that is why i am here.. frankly not too interested in oo aspect of ocaml if module system is sufficient
<mattam> it is
<det> All method calls in OCaml are virtual
<det> and much more expensive than a function call
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<det> mrsolo: for what reasons are interested in the OO aspects?
<det> mrsolo: you like implementation inheritence, or mostly interface inheritance?
<mrsolo> no interest
<mrsolo> just learning the language
<det> mrsolo: did you get my last 2 lines about virtual method calls?
<mrsolo> and come across some discussion that ocaml oo implementation can be substainally slower
<mrsolo> which can take away ocaml speed advantage
<det> yes, well:
<det> 23:24 < det> All method calls in OCaml are virtual
<det> 23:24 < det> and much more expensive than a function call
<mrsolo> so yuck
<det> it has a dispatch system like ObjC
<det> (I dont think) it takes advatnage of any of the static typing
<mrsolo> but slow is relative isn't it.. well as long as it is still comparable to java
<det> oh, yes
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<det> faster than java still I am sure
<det> but all the things you can do with objects you can accomplish with closures/modules/functors
<mrsolo> just which implementation is mor elegant
<det> As far as i am concerned, the only positive thing about OO is interface inheritance
<mrsolo> can't do that with modules easily hmm?
<det> closures can :)
<mrsolo> so there
<mrsolo> lots of languges have both system
<mrsolo> usually just good at one of them
<det> you mean, modules and OO ?
<mrsolo> yea
<det> what besides *ML supports ML style modules?
<mrsolo> nothing i am awared of
<debona|r> match .. with is a bit like case statements, are they not?
<mrsolo> but it is the concept of breaking up program logics
<mrsolo> perl modules, perl class, python module, python class etc
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<vegai> python's kinda good in both
<vegai> though the OO in that doesn't probably impress hardcore OO-programmers
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<mattam> det: what do you do with closures ?
<det> mattam: I was talking about implementation inheritance, where you can have a collection of hetergenous object with a unified interface
<det> you can replaces objects with a records of closures
<det> s/ a//
<mattam> ah ok
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<seafood> how do you quote a " in a string?
<Banana> \" ?
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<Nutssh> Objects also give you the ability to do subtyping.
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<avlondono> hello, anyone uses ocamllex here?
* avlondono can't even ocamllex the manual example
<avlondono> I get: Reference to unbound regexp name `as' at char 227
<avlondono> must be something really stupid but I don't see the error
<Banana> got the file somewhere ?
<avlondono> nope, my own lex file was getting that, so I decided to type the example in the manual, and still
<avlondono> the ocaml manual from www.ocaml.org
<Banana> the 12.6 section "A complete exemple" ?
<Banana> example.
<avlondono> probably is something really simple ... /me is rusty with lex
<avlondono> gives an error with the as. why?
<Banana> ?
<Banana> it works for me.
<Banana> which version of ocaml ?
<avlondono> 3.07
<Banana> strange.
<avlondono> it looks good to me
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<Banana> which editor do you use ?
<avlondono> vim
<Banana> so not a "weird space character in a strange charset" problem.
<avlondono> oh no
<avlondono> not at all
<avlondono> if I remove all the as, it produces the .ml at least, but any as produces the error
<Banana> i try your code too ...
<Banana> works like a charm.
<Banana> are you using 3.07+2 ?
<Banana> or juste 3.07 ?
<avlondono> oh damn. 3.06 probably the emerge failed! sorry for my mistake Banana
<Banana> nothing.
<avlondono> you are always helpful, remember the Itanium bug?
<Banana> always a pleasure to see someone bitch over emerge.
<avlondono> hehe, still I like it
<Banana> (it was specially dedicated to mattam ;))
<Banana> avlondono: yes that rings a bell...
<avlondono> well, it was a mod 1 call that triggered the error
<avlondono> (who wants a mod 1 calculation anyway?)
<Banana> ha ha.
<Banana> well i've seen people adding an "or false" to a conditionnal on purpose.
<Banana> (not in ocaml... but still).
<Banana> to avoid optimisations.
<basti_> #define TRUE 0
<basti_> ;)
<basti_> hehe
<basti_> avoid?
<Banana> yeah.
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<Banana> for benchmarking purposes.
<basti_> oh
<avlondono> why is it flagged in gentoo?
<Banana> what ?
<avlondono> sorry, ocaml 3.07 apparently is unstable ... in x86?
<avlondono> oh well, just ignore me ... already installed
<Banana> you better ask mattam
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<avlondono> probably is some configuration of mine, should check carefully before bothering him
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<mattam> avlondono: ocaml 3.07 is being 'tested' because we're currently reworking the support for ocaml in gentoo. If you wanna try the new support, d/l http://dev.gentoo.org/~mattam/ocaml-overlay.tar.gz, put it in your overlay and rebuild ocaml and your libraries
<avlondono> thanks mattam
<dobrek_> mattam: where can I read what does it mean to put smthing in overlay ?
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<dobrek_> ok it was simple
<mattam> :)
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<Snark> good night
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<dan|el> hm
<dan|el> the silence
<Nutssh> Well, you can describe how much you like ocaml.:)
<dan|el> I asked first :)
<dan|el> never got a reply yesterday though
<Nutssh> What was the question?
<dan|el> what you just asked
<Nutssh> I never asked a question.
<dan|el> let's pretend your statement was phrased as a question :P
<dan|el> I just started looking at ocaml actually
<dan|el> but it looks fun
<dan|el> I was wondering also what people's favorite feature of the language is
<Nutssh> Ocaml is pretty nice. Closures and GC.
<Nutssh> Toss in the lack of having to do type annotations, and that you can't really crash at runtime.
<dan|el> hm, I only got to chapter 3 yesterday. closures?
<dan|el> yeah, I can't wait to start a project with it
<Nutssh> Closures are when you return a function that is closed over an environment.. '' let f x = fun y -> x+y '' '' let g = f 12 ''
<Nutssh> In this case, g is f closed over some state (the value of x)... Now I can pass g to anything that wants an int->int .
<dan|el> oh
<jlouis> I like the tierm lexical scoping much more than closures
<jlouis> term
<dan|el> but f there required int -> int
<Nutssh> Type it in... val f : int -> int -> int
<Nutssh> jlouis, I don't know.. Doesn't C have lexical scoping?
<jlouis> no
<jlouis> not with the added constraint of first-class functions ;)
<jlouis> my bad
<Nutssh> C has lexical scoping and 'first class functions', if you count function pointers as first class functions. :)
<Nutssh> Whatever terminology we want to call it, closures are awesome. :)
<jlouis> sure they are
<jlouis> hindley-milner type inference too
<jlouis> and GC, and proper tail-calls
<jlouis> though I program more SML than Ocaml ;)
<mellum> gcc has lexically scoped functions as an extension :)
<jlouis> actually, what makes the ML languagaes nice are their selection of features
<jlouis> many of them are found in other languages, but it is the mix that is unique
<jlouis> pattern matching is something I've had a hard time living without too
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<jlouis> /g 4
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<det> mellum: with gcc I can write the equivalent of: let makeAdder n = fun x -> n + x ?
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<Nutssh> No, gcc has inner functions, not closures.
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