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<Snark>
slt
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<biopsy>
hi
<biopsy>
ocaml is rather useless agreed?
<_saint_>
biopsy: it depends on what is 'useful' ;)
<biopsy>
ah
<biopsy>
well said
<biopsy>
you sound like a fgt though
<biopsy>
no hard feelings
<_saint_>
fgt?
<biopsy>
yea
<biopsy>
faggot
<biopsy>
must i repeat
<biopsy>
are you a dumass or something
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* vincenz
blinks
<vincenz>
That's the same guy that game onto c++ cause he aws a newb not knowing anything
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<det>
he just did the same thing in #python
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* vincenz
palmslaps
<vincenz>
He was complaining in #C++ about the #c channel too
* vincenz
loves ocaml, loves ocaml, loves ocaml
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<ita>
hi all
<Lemmih>
Yo
<ita>
quick question, what's the correct way of setting a value in an array ? the compiler does not like "numbers.(!j) = Random.int 5;" it seems (unary blah blah blah) ?
<karryall>
<- instead of =
<ita>
ok, thanks
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<Snark>
re
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<seafood>
Anyone around?
<seafood>
I want to have a little bit of a bitch.
<ita>
no ?
<seafood>
Is there any reason why ocaml needs and special 'and' syntax to do mutually recursive functions?
<seafood>
What I'm really asking is, "Is there a strong implementational (perhaps on the grounds of efficiency) for not allowing mutually recursive functions to be defined in the natural style that they are in Haskell?"
<seafood>
Haskell doesn't care _where_ a function definition appears, it can appear after a use.
<seafood>
So what's the deal with Ocaml?
<seafood>
Did they have a good reason for this?
<karryall>
that's probably not for efficiency but because of the typing algorithm I think
<seafood>
oh. Really?
<seafood>
I didn't think that mattered. It's just Hindley-Milner isn't it?
<vincenz>
seafood: in your case the need for 'rec' would drop
<vincenz>
and I've heard the recursiveness/non-recursiveness of functions has a big influence on typing
<mellum>
The actual reason is that you usually don't want the identifier to be rebound immediately
<seafood>
rebound?
<mellum>
you want to be able to sat let x = x*2 in let x = x + 34
<seafood>
nah. I wasn't talking just about recursion. I was talking about mutual recursion. I actually think that having let's and let rec's separate is a good idea.
<seafood>
That's what you're saying right?
<seafood>
That in let x = x*2 it's better if the x on the left is not the same as the x on the right.
<mellum>
"and" isn't any different. It just modifies scoping, like "rec"
<seafood>
i.e. the let is nonrecursive.
<seafood>
Oh, I suppose.
<seafood>
I'm still not convinced there's any decent reason for this though.
<seafood>
But I'm sure there must be!
<karryall>
are you sure haskell let you do what you say ? I thought type inference in haskell was similar to ocaml's
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<seafood>
I'm talking about top-level declarations of functions.
<seafood>
In haskell it _is_ possible to define f = ... g ....
<seafood>
and then later define g = .... f ...
<cDlm>
eg all lets are implicitly rec
<seafood>
Anyway. The reason I ask is that I'm writing a function to print a data structure that is mutually recursive.
<seafood>
Surely at some point I'm going to need mutually recursive functions to do this.
<cDlm>
does the revised syntax still have differenciation between let and let rec ?
<karryall>
cDlm: yes, that's not a matter of syntax
<cDlm>
ah ?
<cDlm>
couldnt I use let recs for everything in a module ?
<Banana>
cDlm: things like let x = 1;; let x = x+1;; would be rejected with implicit let rec
<cDlm>
i dont care about that
<cDlm>
different values can have different names
<cDlm>
s/can/should
<ski>
can one make a fixed-point combinator for making two mutually recursive functions ?
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<cDlm>
now maybe the compiler cannot handle a big recursive spaghetti module, but I doubt that
<ski>
(using the ordinary fixed-point combinator, but not any other recursion)
<karryall>
cDlm: well some people care. Banana's piece of code is perfectly valid.
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<Axioplase>
hi ski :)
<cDlm>
"means" as in "hell low" means "hello"
<Axioplase>
indeed
<ski>
ok
<vincenz>
Chat Lu = which lang?
<Axioplase>
french
<vincenz>
Salut ou quoi?
<vincenz>
Car je vois pas d'ou ca pourrais venir sinon.
<Axioplase>
since 95% of the chans i m on are french speaking, i mapped this sentence as i log in.
<Axioplase>
vincenz: ouais c est ca.
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* ski
sighs
* cDlm
sighs too
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<Banana>
hum... lots of noise today.
<Banana>
damn split. :/
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<karryall>
Banana: you're working on cduce, right ?
<Banana>
yes.
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<vincenz>
Banana: split?
<vincenz>
there is no split
<Banana>
"just begining" to work would be appropriate.
<karryall>
do you known if there's some kind of XSLT to cduce converter ?
* ski
laughs
<Axioplase>
lol :)
<Banana>
i'll start my phd thesis ins september.
<ski>
("Banana split")
<Banana>
\o/
<karryall>
t'es dans quelle équipe, orsay ou ens ?
<Banana>
ens.
<Banana>
pas a ma connaissance pour XSLT -> CDuce mais bon, chuis un petit jeune comme on dit.
<Banana>
(sorry).
<karryall>
hmm
<Axioplase>
sauf que j ai pas l impression d etre en 1152*768 là...
<Axioplase>
mon gaim prend limite 1 quart de largeur de l ecran...
<Banana>
Axioplase: wrong window ?
<Banana>
;)
<Axioplase>
oups :)
<Axioplase>
soory
<karryall>
Banana: what's your PhD about ?
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<Banana>
Defining, typing and implementing combinators for the transformation of XML documents.
<Banana>
right now i'm defining few combinators (non Turing Complete) which enables me to express iterators on XML trees/
<ski>
folds ?
<Banana>
and seeing how i can type all those things.
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<Banana>
for now some operations are "hardcoded" into cduce, like transform, xtransform, map,...
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<karryall>
ah right I remember
<Banana>
the combinators (i call them filter for now) are powerfull enough to express these operations.
<Banana>
i mean, when** i finish the proofs i'm on ~_~.
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<Banana>
and then implementing them efficiently using tree automata techniques or something like this...
<Banana>
a long way to go ~_~.
<cDlm>
Banana: I can only hope you're *really* motivated
<cDlm>
because doing a phd on something you don't care about really sucks.
* karryall
approves
<Banana>
if i weren't i wouldn't even have bothered doing a DEA. (Master ?).
<Banana>
the problem here is not about motivation but money ^_^
<cDlm>
karryall: shall we make a club ?
<karryall>
I would expect many many people to join
<cDlm>
heh
<cDlm>
Banana: no, money is not the problem
<Banana>
cDlm: for me it is.
<cDlm>
Banana: do some teaching, that helps
<Banana>
that's not the problem
<Banana>
I need to get a grant to do my phd thesis.
<Banana>
i'm in france in case you did not realise ;)
<cDlm>
and ?
* cDlm
had no problem getting a grant
<Banana>
and the exam's were not so good, so i haven't a good ranking.
<Banana>
but i think i'll do it somehow.
<cDlm>
if you already know the team there's no problem
<Banana>
not that simple i'm affraid.
<Banana>
but sure it helps.
<karryall>
some institutions won't have PhD students unless they have a grant
<Banana>
ens, zum beispiel.
<Banana>
or Université d'Orsay.
<Banana>
in which are the CDuce team. ^_^
<karryall>
heh
<Banana>
(je suis pas normalien, pour information :/).
<cDlm>
bah, moi non plus
<karryall>
ils n'ont pas ces pb là effectivement
<Banana>
boh, ca ira j'ai toujours une solution de cotutelle qui est sure de toute façon.
* cDlm
goes back staring at his phd.tex buffer
<karryall>
a l'étranger ?
<Banana>
oui.
<Banana>
a marseille.
<karryall>
arf
<karryall>
cDlm: I should do this too y'know
<cDlm>
i mean staring and nothing else
<Banana>
et en meme temps ca me derange pas plus que ca de faire la 2eme annéee labas.
<Banana>
le labo est pas loin des calanques.
<karryall>
tu grimpes ?
<Banana>
oui.
<karryall>
c'est sûr que pour ça c'est mieux qu'à l'ENS
<Banana>
boh, ya toujours les sorties a bleau de toute facon.
<Banana>
puis y a AntreBloc pas loin (mais bon c'est pas la meme chose c'est sur).
<karryall>
ah j'y allais à Antrebloc
<Banana>
c'est pas fin par contre.
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<karryall>
et puis je me suis rendu à l'evidence: je suis trop mauvais et j'ai laissé tomber
<Banana>
pfff n'importe nawak.
<Banana>
ca veut rien dire.
<Banana>
je suis pas un ouf non plus.
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<Banana>
l'essentiel c'est de s'amuser.
<cDlm>
karryall: mm conclusion ici, mais pas pour l'escalade :)
* cDlm
attend le chomage impatiemment
<karryall>
ah oui tiens, moi aussi ça s'applique à ma thèse
<karryall>
enfin je peux pas laisser tomber
<Banana>
cDlm: on en est tous la, j'ai juste repoussé la date de 3 ans mais bon.
<karryall>
bah je pense qu'en info c'est moins pire qu'ailleurs
<Banana>
c'est sur.
<Banana>
mais dans les autres trucs, ils t'autorisent a faire des theses pas financees.
<Banana>
(sinon personne ferait de these).
<Banana>
(je parle pour philo, lettres, socio tout ca).
<cDlm>
ils s'autorisent à vraiment exploiter des thésards ^^
<Banana>
mais bon bosser au mac do pour financer la these c'est moyen...
<karryall>
oui mais dans les autres sciences c'est pareil: pas de bourse, pas de thèse
<gl>
yo bande de francais
<Banana>
bonjour, vect.
<Banana>
commo esta ?
<gl>
kewkew banana
<gl>
j'ai pas vu etiemble, je veux mourir
<Banana>
?
<Banana>
il etait pas la ?
<gl>
non
<Banana>
t'avais rdv ?
<gl>
du coup ca va etre limite pour le timing, entre finir le code, faire les slides, presenter un sujet potable chercher un chef de these, ...
<gl>
non mais je devais le voir dans la semaine, il etait pas au labo de la journee
<Banana>
olivier peut pas te prendre ?
<gl>
non y'a deja une bourse pour albert cohen
<Banana>
hum...
<Banana>
capello il est dans leur equipe ?
<gl>
c'est la crotte.
<gl>
arf non, capello et temam sont en guerre ouverte depuis leur DEA :)
<Banana>
ou c'est le coté obscur de l'archi ?
<Banana>
ouai voila c'est bien ce qui me semblait.
<Banana>
bon ben mon vieux, reste que Cecile Germain.
<gl>
capello fait du parallelisme, grid computing, p2p et tout, pas de l'archi
<gl>
uh oh.
<gl>
je prefere confectionner tout de suite une bonne corde de chanvre, la.
<Banana>
gl: plutot la mort au deshonneur c'est ca ?
<Banana>
:D
<Banana>
gl: j'ai une solution a long terme a te proposer.
<gl>
explique.
<Banana>
t'attends 10 ans et je te prends en these.
<gl>
mh
<gl>
tu fais de l'archi toi ? :/
<Banana>
ouai.
<cDlm>
ya une équipe d'archi ici
<Banana>
XML -> .NET -> Archi
<Banana>
et hop.
<gl>
bon d'accord, en attendant je vais faire vendeur chez Quick.
<gl>
cDlm ici c'est ou ?
<cDlm>
irisa, rennes
<cDlm>
équipe caps
<gl>
ah oui, seznec, tout ca.
<cDlm>
vala
<gl>
je connais, ma chef de stage etait la thesarde de seznec.
<Banana>
c'est pas un peu tendu de dire hello, vous voulez bien me prendre en these ?
<gl>
mais bon c'est pas evident de demander une these dans une equipe ou tu n'as pas fait le stage / qui n'est pas dans le labo de ta fac
<Banana>
remarque, elle peut pas te filler un coup de main de se point de vue la ?
<cDlm>
ben oui
<gl>
je doute, si j'ai une possibilite c'est sur les bourses reservees aux exterieurs, et c'est vache maigre
<cDlm>
pis tu peux tj mailer, si ton sujet est dans leurs cordes c bon
<cDlm>
enfin ça peut pas faire de mal
<gl>
cdlm oui mais je pense que c'est trop tard, la, puisque je soutiens vers le 10-12 juillet
<gl>
mais j'en parlerai a ma chef
<gl>
j'exclue pas non plus une bourse CIFRE
* gl
mange a tous les rateliers
<Banana>
gl: tu peux pas prendre la place de marcheur ni vu ni connu ?
<Banana>
(tu te tein les cheveux, tu te courbe un peu et vla).
<gl>
un croche-patte dans les escaliers est si vite arrive
<Banana>
oui voila.
<gl>
oui mais non, je prefere la aussi mourir plutot que me faire passer pour lui :)
<Banana>
hum...
<Banana>
c'est sur.
<Banana>
erf.
<Banana>
n'est on pas *légèrement off-topic ?
<gl>
bon bon bon, tout ceci est fortement off topic
<gl>
:)
<Banana>
les grands esprits...
<Banana>
ce serait peut etre une bonne occasion de relance ocamlfr :D
<gl>
go go go
<cDlm>
faudrait lui faire une syntaxe à ocaml d'abord
<Banana>
gni ?
<cDlm>
chepa, je le trouve un peu write-oly comme langage
<cDlm>
only
<Banana>
je parlais de #ocamlfr, le canal des gens sexy.
<Banana>
hum...
<Banana>
ben c'est pas du perl.
<cDlm>
et ya des précédences pénibles
<Banana>
cDlm: passes y un coup d'obfuscator si t'es pas content.
<cDlm>
on cause de langage de prog hein
<Banana>
perl est un langage de prog.
<Banana>
il devient meme typé dans sa version 6.
<cDlm>
brainfuck aussi
<gl>
"type" ...
<gl>
et malbolge !
<Banana>
(avec les types desactivé par defaut pour etre backward compatible avec les anciens scripts).
<Banana>
bon, rentrage maison.
<cDlm>
bref, je trouve qu'il y a des parenthèses nécessaires qui devraient pas l'être
* Banana
&
<cDlm>
genre fun (Plop(a,b)) ->...
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<vincenz>
dit, parlez anglais
<cDlm>
i was mumbling about ocaml syntax
<vincenz>
je comprends parfaitement le francais, mais il y a du temps que j'ai plus parler, alors l'ecrire me viens difficilement
<karryall>
bah, réponds en anglais ! c'est pas grave
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<Nutssh>
Dare I ask what you're talking about?
<vincenz>
The fact you have no nuts
<Nutssh>
Do you obsess about nuts? ...... it was quite a long conversation. :)
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<buggs>
Nutssh, nothing really interesting more chit chat
<Nutssh>
ah.
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<buggs>
someone made a bibtex template for wikipedia ?
<cDlm>
what do you mean ?
<buggs>
i want to cite wikipedia and i want to do it the standard way or help making one
<cDlm>
how about a @misc entry with url field ?
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<GSF>
is there any workaround to get unicode working with ocaml?
<smimou>
the camomile library does that I think
<smimou>
camomile.sf.net
<GSF>
thanks
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<Snark>
good night
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