flux__ changed the topic of #ocaml to: OCaml 3.09.2 available! Archive of Caml Weekly News: http://sardes.inrialpes.fr/~aschmitt/cwn/ | A free book: http://cristal.inria.fr/~remy/cours/appsem/ | Mailing List: http://caml.inria.fr/bin/wilma/caml-list/ | Cookbook: http://pleac.sourceforge.net/
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<dark_light> the unix.cma and str.cma isn't implemented on ocaml? how can i get the sources? i installed the default ocaml on ubuntu dapper and on /usr/lib/ocaml there are only the unix.cma and str.cma
<dark_light> for "isn't implemented on ocaml" i mean "in another language"
<smimou> it's not pure caml
<smimou> you can get the source along with caml
<dylan> Parts of unix.cma is implemented in ocaml
<dylan> Just not the parts that call POSIX functions.
<dylan> weeird spam...
<dylan> From: Ocaml Smith
<dylan> ....
<dylan> "I am the Queen of Peace and God has sent me here to help you"
<dylan> Ocaml is obviously the queen of peace.
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<dark_light> pango, ok, thanks!
<dark_light> and. how can i tell a connection was closed by the other point? a connection opened by Unix.accept
<pango> I think you can only read 0 byte from it... cf read(2) manpage
<dark_light> when i read 0 byte, the connection is lost? (man 2 read - no entry for read in section 2)
<dark_light> 0 bytes
<pango> you're probably lacking devel manpages... http://www.die.net/doc/linux/man/man2/read.2.html
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<belleke> is caml a good language to start with?
<dark_light> belleke, yes!
<belleke> easy?
<belleke> i have no programming experience wille this be a problem?
<dark_light> yes, but it has many hi-level constructs
<dark_light> belleke, you want to learn without a teacher?
<belleke> uhu
<belleke> yes
<belleke> is this possible?
<dark_light> *thinking* yes, but maybe you will not get the point of because ocaml was made that way
<belleke> i don't understand?
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<dark_light> well, ocaml is a functional language, and has imperative constructs over the functional basis, it is not very common
<dark_light> belleke, i think it's better to begin with a high level language
<belleke> like c?
<dark_light> no, c is a very low level language
<belleke> what is high level?
<belleke> python?
<dark_light> yes, hmm..
<dark_light> lowlevel is the way computer really do things
<dark_light> high level is the way programmers (often) like to think
<belleke> i understand
<belleke> what language did u begin with?
<dark_light> high level is easier and faster to write, but some things must use lowlevel constructs. generally programmers avoid the lowlevel things
<dark_light> belleke, mirc scripting, a terrible language that is windows-only
<belleke> haha
<belleke> fuck windows
<dark_light> belleke, then i learned shell scripting when i begun to use linux, that is a very-easy language. and then php
<belleke> shell scripting?
<dark_light> yes. that scripts that begin with #!/bin/bash , #!/bin/sh ..
<belleke> but what can i do with this,
<belleke> ?
<dark_light> do you use linux or used it before?
* pango started with LSE language ;)
<dark_light> it has the same purpose of .bat files on DOS
<belleke> ubuntu
<dark_light> i am using ubuntu too
<belleke> ubuntu is good
<dark_light> pango, lse?..
<belleke> out of the box
<belleke> works fine
<dark_light> belleke, the commands on terminal is a programming language itself
<pango> dark_light: Language Symbolique d'Education... some sort of Basic with french keywords ;) It's long forgotten now ;)
<dark_light> shell scripting calls the unix tools (ls, find, grep, etc..) for make a easy-to-develop scripts
<dark_light> pango, Hmmm, maybe it's like the 'portugol' here on brazil
<belleke> sow for example a can mak a script then shuts down my computer after 1 our
<dark_light> portugol is a pseudo-programming language to describe algorithms on portuguese
<dark_light> belleke, yes
<dark_light> belleke, just do: sleep 3600; shutdown -h now
<dark_light> belleke, it's a command on terminal, and also a line of shell scripting :)
<belleke> hhmm can i write a script that becomes root without a password?
<dark_light> belleke, well, ocaml offers you a good programming base. shell scripting is really faster to learn on linux/unix.
<dark_light> belleke, no
<dark_light> belleke, well, maybe yes
<dark_light> depends on the host machine
<belleke> hhmm
<dark_light> belleke, if you configure your system to accept sudo without password, anyone that have access to sudo will gain root without password
<belleke> i have a password
<dark_light> ubuntu by default accepts sudo with your normal account password
<belleke> it would be fun to have sutch a script
<belleke> :-)
<dark_light> well, why? this command isn't "breaking the security", it will run only on insecure systems :P
<belleke> so the is no way to bypass that system
<dark_light> a secure system? yes, there is no way
<ketty> otherwise it wouldn't be secure :)
<belleke> i see
<belleke> so o'caml isnt for me at this time
<dark_light> belleke, well, learn some ocaml, it might be useful even if you go to another language
<belleke> is smalltalk wort a try?
<dark_light> i don't know, but i don't really like OO
<belleke> what is oo
<dark_light> oop = object oriented programming
<dark_light> ocaml have objects too, but it's a optional part (ocaml stands for objective caml)
<belleke> hhmm
<dark_light> belleke, wikipedia tells you better
<belleke> i see oo is actualy what i'n looking for
<belleke> but something i can learn on my onw
<dark_light> belleke, i plan to learn ruby
<dark_light> ruby and smalltalk are pure-oo languages
<belleke> and what is c?
<dark_light> i think functional programming is better to a beginner than oop
<dark_light> C is imperative
<belleke> ppff
<dark_light> pango, rules:)
<ketty> c is crap :)
<belleke> imperative is like haskell
<belleke> write?
<ketty> haskell is functional
<dark_light> i worshipped C when i was just learning mirc scripting. compared to mirc scripting, C is really wonderful.. see, C can have strings with two concatenated spaces! (this is impossible in mirc scripting - mainly because mirc scripting don't have the concept of strings)
<dark_light> belleke, haskell is purely functional. ocaml is functional but gives you imperative and oop constructs
<belleke> hhmm
<belleke> look
<belleke> i looked at the top 5
<belleke> and made my dicision
<dark_light> well..
<dark_light> What fun! April Fool's Day all year long! Can you manipulate the multipliers and weights to make your favourite language the fastest programming language in the Shootout?
<dark_light> ahjahahahaha
<belleke> huh
<dark_light> hey, hmm
<belleke> i'm looking for a language that is powerful and easy to learn
<pango> speed is a very small part of the equation, specially when it comes to "what language to learn first"
<dark_light> belleke, these table shows the fastest languages - that generates fastest code, not the fastest to code
<pango> even the characteristics of the language itself are only part of the equation... maybe you'll want facilities like a good debugger, or some interpreter for the language, for easier learning/experimentation
<dark_light> obviously C will appear at first, but C don't have many resources that ocaml provides..
* mellum suggests Scheme or Python for learning.
<mellum> Ocaml's type system might be somewhat in the way for a beginner...
<mellum> also quirks like silent two's complement overflow...
<pango> mellum: yes and no, it can catch lots of mistakes too
* dark_light don't know scheme or python, but the people says that are good languages
<zmdkrbou> python really is *simple* to learn
<dark_light> mellum, the type system of ocaml is really wonderful for me
<pango> and compiler messages aren't that bad
<mellum> pango: sure. But it will still be in the way the first few weeks.
<belleke> has it a good support?
<dark_light> support where?
<belleke> online
<dark_light> well, you are on the support channel
<belleke> tutorials and so on
<dark_light> belleke, i found good docs about ocaml on the net
<belleke> i didn't
<mellum> well, there's probably an order or two of magnitude more on Python
<dark_light> mellum, you are right, but i don't learn languages for it's popularity
<dark_light> (i plan to learn python anyway)
dark_light changed the topic of #ocaml to: OCaml 3.09.2 available! Archive of Caml Weekly News: http://sardes.inrialpes.fr/~aschmitt/cwn/ | A free book: http://cristal.inria.fr/~remy/cours/appsem/ | Mailing List: http://caml.inria.fr/bin/wilma/caml-list/ | Cookbook: hmettp://pleac.sourceforge.net/
<dark_light> oooops
<dark_light> what i have changed?
dark_light changed the topic of #ocaml to: OCaml 3.09.2 available! Archive of Caml Weekly News: http://sardes.inrialpes.fr/~aschmitt/cwn/ | A free book: http://cristal.inria.fr/~remy/cours/appsem/ | Mailing List: http://caml.inria.fr/bin/wilma/caml-list/ | Cookbook: http://pleac.sourceforge.net/
<dark_light> well i think nothing..
<dark_light> belleke, http://caml.inria.fr/resources/index.en.html , index of official documentation
<dark_light> belleke, www.ocaml-tutorial.net a good point to begin
<belleke> don' t know anymore
<dark_light> belleke, try to read http://www.ocaml-tutorial.org/the_basics , even if you don't plan to learn ocaml right now
<dark_light> hm
<dark_light> there are the pleac, that isn't complete but still useful (on topic)
<dark_light> the book on topic too
<belleke> ok thanks
<mellum> Hmm, that tutorial seems to assume you already know some programming language
<belleke> yeah right
<pango> dark_light: also, it's the translation of perl problems and solutions into other languages, so it's often not very idiomatic
<belleke> delphi?
<belleke> is delphi ok?
<dark_light> NO
<ketty> no :)
<belleke> basic is gay right?
<belleke> haha
<dark_light> i don't know basic, but if you think about basic, you sould try pascal instead
<belleke> do they use pascal ?
<ketty> they?
<belleke> thats an old language
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<belleke> isn't it?
<ketty> yes
<dark_light> it's not a problem
<dark_light> not for me at least
<ketty> i don't recomend pascal :)
<dark_light> C is very old too
<dark_light> (there are a 99 version of C, but it's basis is from.. the 70's i think)
<belleke> is python worth a try?
<dark_light> yes
<belleke> ok
<belleke> i'll go to sleep now
<belleke> bey
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<dark_light> bye
<Schmurtz> dark_light, even C99 is not a big evolution of the C language
<Schmurtz> it's more a backport of many new C++ concepts (inlining, bool type...)
<dark_light> well, c isn't intended to be a high level language anyway
<Schmurtz> absolutely
<mellum> Schmurtz: well. C++ is hardly the language that introduced inlining and bools :)
<dark_light> you meant that the bool type was introduced by c++? (don't understand that 'hardly'..)
<Schmurtz> yes, it's what I said
<Schmurtz> new C99 features comes from C++
<mellum> What I mean is that these things have been in other languages for a long time.
<Schmurtz> perhaps my english is so bad, that I said the opposite of what a mean :)
<Schmurtz> -a +I
<Schmurtz> mellum, ok
<dark_light> i didn't know that c89 - don't has a bool type
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