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<Camarade_Tux>
hum
<Camarade_Tux>
godi-bin-prot is required for godi-bin-prot.
<Camarade_Tux>
by godi ;p
<Camarade_Tux>
I'm wondering if my godi install is sane
<Camarade_Tux>
s/if/whether
<palomer>
haha
<Camarade_Tux>
findlib-1.2.3 doesn't install, I have 1.2.2 currently
<Camarade_Tux>
palomer, on the other hand it will only take 1 minute of my time to recompile everything (and three hours of compile time ;p )
<Camarade_Tux>
of course, findlib-1.2.3 is selected because of the dependencies =/
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<flux>
hm, batteries has rangeiter and bulk_iter in the same module, a bit inconsistent?
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<flux>
hmph, apparently there's a game written in ocaml using cairo bindings by jpakaste, but his home pages have disappeared (http://koti.welho.com/jpakaste)
<Camarade_Tux>
welho seems to be a finnish isp or something like that so it's not surprising the regular page is not available anymore
<Camarade_Tux>
(* ils ont de la pub pour canal+ en finlande... *)
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<flux>
yes, it is.. but I didn't think of finding out the guy's real name, jpakaste was useless for googling :)
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<Camarade_Tux>
in fact I found the game name and googled for caboodle+cairo ;)
<flux>
bah, you have superior google skills ;)
<Camarade_Tux>
sometimes it seems so but there's something else !
<Camarade_Tux>
instead of going to google.com and put my query, I use yaxm.org/!query
<Camarade_Tux>
there's an apache redirection to google.com/lots-of-parameters
<Camarade_Tux>
this usually gives better results (especially when you're looking for something in english and are not in an english-speaking country and/or you're computer is not set to use english)
<Camarade_Tux>
plus google somehow learned this was mostly used to do caml-related searches and now it ranks caml-related results better
<Camarade_Tux>
so if I search for something related to C, it gives me results about ocaml bindings rather ;)
<flux>
naah, it's just because ocaml bindings are going nplaces ;)
<grirgz>
Camarade_Tux: you are afabulating, the yaxm search is just a standard search, nobody learned nothing
<grirgz>
=)
<Camarade_Tux>
grirgz, I never said it was more ;)
<Camarade_Tux>
it's just muuuuuuch faster to write :p
<grirgz>
i will use it now ;)
<Camarade_Tux>
and it used to enable keyboard shortcuts but I've disabled it the day the cursor got automatically placed on the 5 or sixth result which was a youtube one
<Camarade_Tux>
in fact it would put you on google results first, no matter their rank !
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<Camarade_Tux>
and really the good thing is it sets google to english, otherwise it's usually for french and I never get the results I want as they are not in french usually
<Camarade_Tux>
grirgz, go on ;)
<grirgz>
yes, why put a "search in france / search in worldwide", the results are biased
<grirgz>
yes, and when you configure your browser to "fr", google.com always redirect to google.fr
<grirgz>
i hate google more and more each day
<Camarade_Tux>
grirgz, that's exactly what I and Asmadeus experienced, he had the idea, I had the domain ;)
<grirgz>
yesterday i was looking for "uninstall flash firefox linux" and this f***ing google show me results for with keyword install, it think it is smart, but it's not, i hate it
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<Camarade_Tux>
rm /u/l/m/p/<TAB> (zsh inside) which expands to rm /usr/lib/mozilla/plugins/libflashplayer.so, but I'm not sure every distributions appreciate that...
<grirgz>
zsh rox ;)
<grirgz>
yes i have found now
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<Camarade_Tux>
I used to use bash, zsh being on my todo list (had no time to configure it !), then I tried and I couldn't go back to bash now ;p
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<Camarade_Tux>
now I need to make something to have ocaml completion
<Camarade_Tux>
and findlib, and, ocamlmklib, and, and, and ... :p
<grirgz>
but it's strange, i've installed gnash, and iceweasel dont know it until i make a symlink from the system plugin to my plugin home dir
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<grirgz>
ocaml completion ? with the google summer of code project ?
<grirgz>
(i've forgoten the name)
<Camarade_Tux>
you mean it's installed in the system one and it can't find it ?
<grirgz>
yes
<Camarade_Tux>
hmm, I had troubles with detection too when making something to make npapi plugins in ocaml
<Camarade_Tux>
I eventually stopped and discovered somebody had already completed that ;p
<grirgz>
npapi plugins ?
<Camarade_Tux>
as for the completion, nah, only when running ocaml, for instance completing the .cma names according to the folders already included and so
<Camarade_Tux>
npapi, basically browser plugins
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<Camarade_Tux>
with browser being any browser except internet explorer
<grirgz>
of course =)
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<Camarade_Tux>
there's a npplugin to what it wants though
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<grirgz>
i am wondering the proportion of french in this channel =)
<Camarade_Tux>
at least 11 out of 76 but then if I only count people I know of it's rather 11 out of 25 ;)
<Camarade_Tux>
(approximately of course)
<Yoric[DT]>
hi
<Camarade_Tux>
hi Yoric[DT], everything alright ?
<Yoric[DT]>
Well, a few bug reports.
<Yoric[DT]>
But that's ok.
<Yoric[DT]>
That's actually what we hoped :)
<Camarade_Tux>
perfect then (and it seems the internet is a bit dead this week-end)
<Yoric[DT]>
We've had 70 downloads since yesterday:)
<Camarade_Tux>
that's quite a lot indeed \o/
<Camarade_Tux>
it seems my godi died though
<Camarade_Tux>
but I'll just wipe everything soon
<Yoric[DT]>
Did I kill your godi?
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<Camarade_Tux>
I don't really know, binprot won't install, findlibe won't upgrade, some (most ?) packages work though
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<flux>
yoric[dt], I guess you prefer actual bug reports over irc messages?-)
<flux>
(nothing more than a couple things in the documentation yet, though..)
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<Yoric[DT]>
flux: yes, preferably.
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<thelema>
flux: rangeiter and bulkiter are different.
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<flux>
thelema, I know, but one of them is with underscore and the other without
<flux>
I think usually the words are separated with underscores, right?
<thelema>
ah. okay.
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<zbrown>
hrm
<thelema>
flux: fixed in svn
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<Camarade_Tux>
metaocaml seems to work nicely, I just hope it works under windows too...
<Camarade_Tux>
I think I'll need at least a short tutorial...
<flux>
camarade_tux, can you also write an example that shows how much more convenient it is for expressing certain progreams, as that hasn't become clear for me, although I have an idea what it can do :)
<flux>
thelema, great
<olegfink>
Camarade_Tux: which version do you use?
<Camarade_Tux>
flux, currently I only need to eval user-provided code, nothing more but if I make more complicated things, I will
<Camarade_Tux>
olegfink, 3.09.1 alpha 030
<Yoric[DT]>
Great...
<Yoric[DT]>
I've just had a paper rejected.
<thelema>
Yoric[DT]: that sucks
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<Yoric[DT]>
Out of the three reviewers, two are familiar with the field, and the last one isn't.
<Yoric[DT]>
The two who are give very good marks to the paper.
<Yoric[DT]>
The third one obviously doesn't understand anything.
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<Yoric[DT]>
Which means that I can't even improve the paper based on the feedback, it's already close to maximal marks by the two reviewers who could actually give some feedback.
<thelema>
Yoric[DT]: or you didn't give enough background for him to catch on.
<Yoric[DT]>
thelema: in 5 pages?
<Yoric[DT]>
The first sentence of his review is him actually complaining about too much background and the last sentence is him complaining that there's not enough.
<thelema>
I admit there's limits, but just about every paper I read has a decent explanation of the problem space
<olegfink>
Yoric[DT]: yeah, I know how it feels.
<thelema>
maybe your background was both too long and insufficient for him.
<Yoric[DT]>
thelema: well, obviously.
<Yoric[DT]>
thelema: but that's not feedback I can use.
<Yoric[DT]>
olegfink: :/
<olegfink>
my paper was rejected just because reviewers just didn't want to try to think in functional terms
<Yoric[DT]>
Well, my paper to last year's ML workshop was rejected because of the premise: I didn't want to modify the compiler.
<thelema>
there's plenty of politics in publishing. :(
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<Yoric[DT]>
In that case, the two good reviews give me marks of respectively 8.2 and 8.6/10, with (quoting the second one) "the best account of dependent types and effects I have ever encountered."
<Yoric[DT]>
It's terribly frustrating.
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<Yoric[DT]>
ertai: ping
<_zack>
hi all guys, channel newbie speaking, actually I wasn't aware of the popularity of this channel before reading about it in batteries release announcement
<_zack>
pleased to meet you all
<Yoric[DT]>
Nice to meet you.
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<thelema>
hi _zack
<_zack>
btw, congratulations for batteries release, I hope to have a Debian package ready soon
<Yoric[DT]>
_zack: Hi Stefano :)
<_zack>
Yoric[DT]: ;)
<Yoric[DT]>
Thanks for the patch.
<Yoric[DT]>
I think thelema just committed it.
<_zack>
you're welcome, in fact I think I'll come up with a more generic patch implementing the various packaging needs
<Yoric[DT]>
That'll be nice.
<_zack>
only let me know if you have a clue about the ocamlopt need when building bytecode
<_zack>
I hope it's not something deep inside ocamlbuild ...
<_zack>
usually it's just surface, but in these ocamlbuild days one never know ;)
<Yoric[DT]>
That's actually surprising.
<Yoric[DT]>
We're not issuing any ocamlopt specific command.
<Yoric[DT]>
More precisely, we're letting ocamlfind choose the compiler.
<_zack>
uh? ocamlfind needs to be invoked with either opt or ocamlc?
<_zack>
s/\?$//
<_zack>
you mean ocamlbuild?
<Yoric[DT]>
No, I mean ocamlfind.
<Yoric[DT]>
In ocamlbuild, we replace "ocamlc" with "ocamlfind ocamlc" and "ocamlopt" with "ocamlfind ocamlopt".
<Yoric[DT]>
And that's it.
<Yoric[DT]>
So yes, ocamlbuild has also a role in the choice.
<_zack>
yup, ocamlfind does not decide whether to invoke ocamlc (whatever it is) or ocamlopt, indeed
<thelema>
iirc, it's in compiling the myocamlbuild.ml that it wants ocamlopt
<_zack>
thelema: argh :(
<Yoric[DT]>
Ah.
<Yoric[DT]>
That may be a valid reason, too.
<Yoric[DT]>
Yep.
* Yoric[DT]
is currently compiling with verbosity.
<Yoric[DT]>
The only occurrence of ocamlopt is when building myocamlbuild.ml .
<thelema>
sounds like an ocamlbuild bug - but I guess it doesn't happen for other projects... because they don't use myocamlbuild?
<_zack>
actually, ocambuild is still very *unpopular*
* Yoric[DT]
likes it.
<Yoric[DT]>
It's very powerful.
<_zack>
I'm using it for my project, but from the POV of packaging batteries is the first project using it
<Yoric[DT]>
Too bad the code is undocumented.
<_zack>
I like it too
<_zack>
yes, don't get me started on that ;)
<_zack>
so it is very possible that there is a bug like that, not yet discovered
<Yoric[DT]>
ertai: ping
<Yoric[DT]>
_zack: sometimes, Nicolas Pouillard lurks on this channel.
<_zack>
k
<Yoric[DT]>
(as ertai)
* _zack
is re-reading the bugreport about that
<_zack>
yup, is definitely building myocamlbuild
<Yoric[DT]>
mmmhh...
<Yoric[DT]>
-byte-plugin Don't use a native plugin but bytecode
<_zack>
if that's enough I'm fine with that, I've already patches your Makefile to pass externally flags to ocamlbuid
<_zack>
but that's something probably worth to be support by your makefile per se, as there can be other people out there without ocamlopt
<_zack>
yes, it works
<_zack>
it is enough to add -byte-plugin to the 2 ocamlbuild invocation of the all: target apparently
<_zack>
(maybe even to install)
<_zack>
nope, install is fine as it is, because obviously it just uses ocamlfind and not ocamlbuild
<Yoric[DT]>
Yep, that's enough.
<Yoric[DT]>
I've just patched our Makefile.
<_zack>
cool
<Yoric[DT]>
Mmmmhhh....
<Yoric[DT]>
Actually, what do you prefer?
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<_zack>
OBFLAGS is defined as empty upper in the Makefile
<_zack>
this way, during debian package build, I can also invoke make as: make byte OBFLAGS=-classic-disply
<_zack>
(which is nicer for the build logs)
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<Yoric[DT]>
ok
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<Yoric[DT]>
Done, here too.
<Yoric[DT]>
(not committed yet)
<_zack>
kthx, no problem, I'm not in a hurry :)
<_zack>
actually I think I should indeed start following your version control system ...
<Yoric[DT]>
Great:)
<Yoric[DT]>
For the moment, we're still using the trunk, although we will probably move bugfixing to a branch at some point.
<_zack>
Yoric[DT]: if you want git or some other vcs let us know, on ocamlcore we can set them up as well
<Yoric[DT]>
Now, regarding your ITP discussion, what do you think of "candidate-for-standard development platform"?
<Yoric[DT]>
git would be nice
<_zack>
when I heard saying "branch" in svn context I'm always scared :)
<Yoric[DT]>
:)
* thelema
likes git
<_zack>
and actually for the package I'm using git, so having that will help sharing patches
<Yoric[DT]>
Many people around me advocate git, so I'm willing to give it a try.
<_zack>
Yoric[DT]: for the description, I've no strong opinions, but I understand Eric's point
<Yoric[DT]>
So do I.
<_zack>
maybe you can have a look at similar batteries included efforts and see what they say about what they are?
<_zack>
in fact, the current description of batteries is wonderful, but it is indeed missing a short statement of what it is
<Yoric[DT]>
Well, for Haskell, they speak of their "standardization process".
<Yoric[DT]>
Wonderful?
* Yoric[DT]
blushes.
<_zack>
yup, I've liked reading it
<_zack>
(but maybe because it is permeated by the very same frustration I've always had about OCaml ;) )
<Yoric[DT]>
Thanks.
<Yoric[DT]>
:)
<Yoric[DT]>
Do you mean that I should add something to the README or to about.html?
* thelema
would be just happy with a de-facto standard development environment
<_zack>
Yoric[DT]: I mean that you should have a sort of "tagline" describing what batteries is
<_zack>
short and to the point
<_zack>
maybe, before it is standard, we can go for something like "comprehensive" ?
<_zack>
or something which recall uniformity ...
<_zack>
then you should add it at the beinning of both README and about.html
<thelema>
Batteries: a complete development environment for OCaml
<_zack>
why not, though I like "platform", which you have been used here and there
<thelema>
I'm unsatisfied with "development environment" too.
<thelema>
but platform says very little
<olegfink>
it's not a development environment
<olegfink>
my development environment is unix, rc, vim, acme and ocaml
<thelema>
olegfink: it's not a development environment in terms of IDE, but it does form a good chunk of the context in which development takes place
<olegfink>
I refuse to call the libraries I use an "environment."
<thelema>
maybe the big difference is that it's an extended, richer OCaml ... it's not a language...
<thelema>
the intent is that it's more than just a library.
<thelema>
it's an extension to OCaml.
<thelema>
it extends the syntax and the builtins
<flux>
how is it not a platform?
<flux>
upon which you build things
<flux>
environment is just something you work in
<flux>
not something you end up delivering..
<olegfink>
it's either a platform or a framework
<flux>
and it's not a framework, unless it is extensible in a fashion that you can write more Data.*-modules for instance (and I don't think you can)
<thelema>
flux: that's not the intent
<flux>
well, I suppose it doesn't deliver all the parts that build a pltaform
<flux>
only parts of it
<thelema>
Batteries: extending OCaml into a rich language
<thelema>
awkward, but the meaning's not bad.
<flux>
it does very little to the language :)
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<thelema>
it extends the standard libraries (part of the language as much as the syntax) to a large degree.
<Yoric[DT]>
Well, I personally like Platform.
<Yoric[DT]>
I think it's too early for "de-facto standard".
<Yoric[DT]>
Perhaps the word "community" should appear in the tagline.
* thelema
has "de-facto standard" as the goal
<Yoric[DT]>
Goal, yes.
<Yoric[DT]>
But that's not achieved.
<thelema>
Batteries: a community-built rich platform for OCaml programming
<Yoric[DT]>
I concur that it's not exactly a framework.
<Yoric[DT]>
That's one possibility.
* thelema
brainstorms
<Yoric[DT]>
:)
<Yoric[DT]>
Batteries: your one-stop library for OCaml programming :)
<_zack>
we are drifting about too much towards commercials, aren't we? ;)
<Yoric[DT]>
Naaaah.
* Yoric[DT]
fires synaptic
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<thelema>
_zack: you wanted a tagline, a sound-bite
<_zack>
ok, I'll take it back :-P, I just want a "short description"
<hcarty>
Batteries: Powered by OCaml
<Yoric[DT]>
hcarty: or "Empowering OCaml"?
<Yoric[DT]>
Or does that sound too much like Oprah?
<hcarty>
Yoric[DT]: I suppose it depends on the attention you are trying to attract
<Camarade_Tux>
I'd use the word "comprehensive", I'll let you decide how and where
<Yoric[DT]>
"Batteries: Standardization libraries and language extensions for OCaml, maintained by the Community"
<Yoric[DT]>
s/Community/community
<olegfink>
why don't you like Foundation?
<Yoric[DT]>
olegfink: how would you use it>
<Yoric[DT]>
olegfink: how would you use it?
<Camarade_Tux>
Yoric[DT], seems good
<olegfink>
Batteries is an ocaml library foundation
<Yoric[DT]>
mmmhh....
* Yoric[DT]
was deeply scarred by the JFC, a few years ago.
<Yoric[DT]>
"Batteries: Library Foundation for OCaml, maintained by the community -- every library you need to start working with OCaml."
<olegfink>
good, just do s/ --.*//
<thelema>
"maintained by the community" -> "the community's"
<Yoric[DT]>
"Batteries: the community's Library Foundation for OCaml. Every library you need to start working with OCaml."
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<thelema>
library foundation ... every library -- cen re polish out one of the two "library"
<Yoric[DT]>
"Batteries: The community is back with a vengeance. Drop your Python, your Java, surrender your Ruby, and start here." :)
<olegfink>
ehm, the second sentence isn't true for me personally.
<Yoric[DT]>
olegfink: Yeah, I agree it's a bit too ambitious.
<thelema>
I like this last one.
<olegfink>
why "every", why "start"?
<Yoric[DT]>
Because people who don't "start" probably know if they need Batteries.
<Yoric[DT]>
People who do start may require gentle nudging :)
<thelema>
"start" is appropriate. If you've already got a big project in ocaml, adding batteries won't do too much.
<thelema>
you've already built all the infrastructure you need for your project
<Yoric[DT]>
"Batteries: Library Foundation for OCaml. A community-maintained base for your OCaml projects."
<olegfink>
for me "start" means that when I master my ocaml skills I will have to find another library, as Batteries is just for the starters.
<Yoric[DT]>
Fair enough.
<olegfink>
Yoric[DT]: excellent!
<thelema>
olegfink: start your project with batteries. If you outgrow it, that's okay.
<Yoric[DT]>
Thanks.
<Yoric[DT]>
thelema: yes, but it may suggest that if you're experienced, you'll never need Batteries.
<thelema>
how about just the second sentence: "Batteries: a community-maintained base for your OCaml projecs."
<Yoric[DT]>
Why not.
<olegfink>
do you still maintain "Batteries Included" name?
<flux>
that tells very little about the (envisioned) breadth of the libraries
<olegfink>
if not, then the first sentence is effectively a fully quialified name
<olegfink>
that's why it is probably still needed while it doesn't make much sense.
<ertai>
Yoric[DT]: pong
<flux>
maybe it doesn't need to be decided right now, let the idea linger around for a while ;)
<Yoric[DT]>
ertai: hi, how do you do?
<Yoric[DT]>
ertai: I had a Camlp4-related question.
<Yoric[DT]>
ertai: how do I access comments?
<ertai>
Yoric[DT]: fine, and you ?
<Yoric[DT]>
ertai: fine, thanks.
<olegfink>
as in 'batteries, library foundation for ocaml, is a community-maintained base for your OCaml projects'
<olegfink>
short titile, full title, description
<Yoric[DT]>
ertai: Disappointed at having a paper rejected despite very good comments.
<Yoric[DT]>
olegfink: well, for the moment, the full title is "OCaml Batteries Included"
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<ertai>
Yoric[DT]: that's sad
<olegfink>
ah
<ertai>
Yoric[DT]: you can access comments by setting up a token filter
<Yoric[DT]>
ertai: can't I do that from the Ast?
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<ertai>
no they're not in the AST
<ertai>
(that's far from easy to put them in the AST)
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<Yoric[DT]>
ertai: ok.
<Yoric[DT]>
In that case, Camlp4 may not be the right tool for what I have in mind.
<ertai>
what do you have in mind?
<Yoric[DT]>
Essentially, I have things such as [module Foo : sig (**Some ocamldoc comment*) ... end] and I want to turn that into [(**Some ocamldoc comment*)module Foo : sig ... end] .
<Yoric[DT]>
Still as part of my quest to get ocamldoc, ocamlbuild and mlpack to play nicely together :)
<ertai>
As a source-to-source translation
<Yoric[DT]>
Yes.
<ertai>
to be done once or in the build system
<Yoric[DT]>
In the build system.
<Yoric[DT]>
Essentially, I'm generating a .mli from a .mlpack .
<Yoric[DT]>
To do that, I'm copying the contents of each .mli referenced by the .mlpack .
<ertai>
yes I was guessing it
<Yoric[DT]>
But the first ocamldoc comment inside a .mli should actually appear before [module MyFileName : sig].
<hcarty>
ertai: Is there anything someone relatively ignorant of the OCaml internals, such as myself, can do to help resolve OCaml bugs #4495 and/or #4593? (camlp4 + toplevel)
<ertai>
yes but you put the [module MyFileName : sig] part
<Yoric[DT]>
ertai: indeed
<Yoric[DT]>
I just need to move that part to after the first ocamldoc comment.
<Yoric[DT]>
Well, now I only need to find out how to move :)
<Yoric[DT]>
_zack: thanks.
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<_zack>
Yoric[DT]: it's pretty easy, have a look at the git-svn doc
<ertai>
_zack: wow, thanks
<_zack>
Yoric[DT], ertai: in fact it's munga which did the work a while ago, but we all forgot about it ;)
<Yoric[DT]>
:)
<Yoric[DT]>
Thanks.
<ertai>
hcarty: trying to identify the bug by looking at the code could help
<ertai>
#4495 seems easier though
<hcarty>
#4495 is the one I'm more concerned about, personally
<thelema>
_zack: I made that batteries repo from the public SVN -- when I did another checkout with the developer SVN, I got a completely different git tree.
<hcarty>
ertai: Any suggestions on where to look? I tried digging through the code myself a while ago, but didn't have any luck at the time.
<_zack>
thelema: you sure you are talking about the repository I've mentioned? that one is empty with no commits at all
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* Yoric[DT]
is considering splitting IO in two parts, one with just the definition of IO.input and IO.output and the other one with all the utilities.
<thelema>
_zack: oops, I thought I saw a github url.
<Yoric[DT]>
That will let us write [print] functions for each data structure, including those which already have some [write] function in [IO].
<Yoric[DT]>
_zack: so should I initialize it with git-svn?
<ertai>
hcarty: I'm looking at camlp4/Camlp4Top/Top.ml and toplevel/toploop.ml
<ertai>
hcarty: But not sure to find it
<_zack>
Yoric[DT]: I presume the best way to do that would be to use git-svn on a local repo of yours and check that everything is ok, then git push everything to the repo on the forge
<thelema>
Yoric[DT]: ok, we can remove UTF8.t = string
<ertai>
Yoric[DT]: have you removed the no-op syntax extension of batteries (aka pa_mainfun)
<ertai>
?
<Yoric[DT]>
thelema: well, I put you in charge of the item.
<thelema>
Yoric[DT]: may I upload my git tree?
<Yoric[DT]>
thelema: were to?
<Yoric[DT]>
That new git?
<thelema>
yes
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<thelema>
I already use git-svn locally
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<Yoric[DT]>
I suppose so, you're the one who knows about git and git-svn.
<Yoric[DT]>
Just make sure that you put the whole repository, not just the trunk.
<thelema>
yup, that's what I have.
<Yoric[DT]>
Just give me 5 minutes to commit the changes to the Makefile.
<thelema>
ok.
<Yoric[DT]>
Ok, done.
<Yoric[DT]>
ertai: no, why?
<thelema>
hmm, no push URL...
<olegfink>
does anyone recall what's the name of the simple imperative language that was proposed to be implemented in functional languages?
<hcarty>
ertai: As far as I can tell, the #4495 problem comes from the wrap function in camlp4/Camlp4Top/Top.ml. Something is generating a Sys_error exception and (I think?) gen_print in camlp4/Camlp4/ErrorHandler.ml is printing the error
<hcarty>
ertai: I don't know if this helps at all
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<ertai>
hcarty: I came to the same conclusion and have changed something to this wrap function
* ertai
have to recompile the whole thing and see the diff
<ertai>
Yoric[DT]: pong
<Yoric[DT]>
ertai: the answer to your question was "no, wy?"
<Yoric[DT]>
ertai: the answer to your question was "no, why?"
<hcarty>
ertai: I am happy to test here as well, if it would help
<ertai>
your mainfun extension is equal to no-op
<ertai>
you replace a grammar rule by almost the same one (but equivalent)
<Yoric[DT]>
ertai: yes, but I add one operation in the meantime.
<bluestorm>
(i was interested too in the signification of that mainfun thing)
<ertai>
it's already legal OCaml to put an expression in a structre item
<bluestorm>
(i assumed it was revised-syntax related, but did not read the thing carefully)
<ertai>
Yoric[DT]: what operation let _ =?
<Yoric[DT]>
ertai: in revised syntax, you can just write "5" as a structure item.
<bluestorm>
Yoric[DT]: that may require some ;; before, though
<bluestorm>
(obvious parsing issues)
<Yoric[DT]>
Gasp.
* Yoric[DT]
feels foolish.
<ertai>
yes in original syntax one recommend either ;; to the end the sentence or let _ = to begin it
<_zack>
Yoric[DT]: it happened after 10 minutes or so of doc building
<Yoric[DT]>
_zack: I'll take a look.
<Yoric[DT]>
_zack: that's surprising.
<ertai>
but that's just to avoid let x = e1;; e2 to be read as let x = e1 e2
<Yoric[DT]>
Ok, I'll remove that extension.
<ertai>
Yoric[DT]: thanks
<Yoric[DT]>
Well, thank you.
<Yoric[DT]>
Come to think about it, I had forgotten to install it.
<thelema>
Yoric[DT]: I removed the installation code from SVN.
<Yoric[DT]>
thelema: ah, ok.
<Yoric[DT]>
thelema: please don't forget to update the ChangeLog when you do that kind of thing.
<thelema>
Yes, that's something I need to get in the habit of.
<Yoric[DT]>
Well, I've uploaded the ChangeLog for you.
<Yoric[DT]>
_zack: building now...
<Yoric[DT]>
_zack: we've had issues with ocamldoc since day 1.
<_zack>
yup, it is not very "flexible"
<_zack>
Yoric[DT]: i'm trying again building the doc as well, but even if it is transient I would be worried, because the buildds are for sure gonna hit that, thanks to Murphy
<Yoric[DT]>
Yeah.
<Yoric[DT]>
Perhaps by extending the stack?
* Yoric[DT]
doesn't quite feel like rewriting ocamldoc for now.
<_zack>
eh :), well, if you feel it is in ocamldoc sure, I was just wondering whether you felt that the non tail recursive code was in your code
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<Yoric[DT]>
Well, when my code actually starts working, it first displays message "[Final stage, generating html pages]".
<Yoric[DT]>
s/starts working/starts its work/, that is
* Yoric[DT]
just added a [flush_all ()] to be sure.
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<Yoric[DT]>
_zack: can you try adding [ flush_all (); ] at line 703 for a test?
<_zack>
line 703 of what?
<Yoric[DT]>
build/odoc_generator_batlib.ml
<_zack>
k
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* _zack
is retarting the doc build again :)
* Yoric[DT]
did that 6:43 minutes ago.
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<flux>
what makes ocamldoc so slow?
<Yoric[DT]>
I'm not sure.
<thelema>
Yoric[DT]: what's the right way to add changelog entries? (I assume there's a way to generate the header automatically)
<Yoric[DT]>
thelema: I'm doing it manually.
<Yoric[DT]>
_zack: worked for me
<thelema>
really...
<_zack>
still going here ..
<ertai>
thelema: emacs has a macro for it
* ertai
don't use emacs
<thelema>
great. I use emacs.
<_zack>
finished here ... again with Stack overflow :(
<_zack>
I'll try increasing the stack
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<Yoric[DT]>
_zack: :/
<Yoric[DT]>
And did it reach the stage where our code was used?
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<_zack>
nope
<_zack>
so ocamlbuild's fault
<Yoric[DT]>
I think so.
<_zack>
ocamldoc's fault
<Yoric[DT]>
Yeah, that's what I understood :)
<Yoric[DT]>
There's one List.fold_right in OCamlDoc's odoc_dep.ml
<ertai>
and the list is too long ?
<Yoric[DT]>
but I truly doubt it's the cause of the problem.
<Yoric[DT]>
I don't know.
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<hcarty>
ertai: Any luck with the wrap function update?
<ertai>
hcarty: not yet, it was not the right fix
<ertai>
but I have another idea
<ertai>
hcarty: I've made progress
<ertai>
Now I have to convince me that I've not broken something worse
<hcarty>
ertai: Thank you for working on this
<_zack>
Yoric[DT]: with stack at 16M it worked
<flux>
ah, if it only were as simple as grepping for fold_right, to find scaling problems due to non-tail-recursion :)
<flux>
(but I suppose compiling ocamldoc with -g and getting the exception dump would reveal the problem)
<thelema>
flux: on major platforms
<flux>
thelema, so there are pltaforms where that's not supported, not even for byte code?
<ertai>
hcarty: I have to go and so pause this camlp4 fix don't hesitate to recall me about it
<ertai>
it would be nice to have it in 3.11 (not sure though)
<thelema>
hmm, maybe everywhere for bytecode.
<hcarty>
ertai: Thanks. I agree that it would be nice to have it for 3.11 if at all possible.
<Yoric[DT]>
_zack: ok.
<Yoric[DT]>
flux: well, grepping is always a start :)
<Yoric[DT]>
The interesting comments are in the last few lines.
<_zack>
the problem is in the syntax subpackage?
<Yoric[DT]>
Yes.
<Yoric[DT]>
From Pierre Magistry experiment's it seems that [open Batteries] does the trick.
<Yoric[DT]>
Which probably means that [Ref] can't be found because it's not opened.
<Yoric[DT]>
Which probably means that [Ref] can't be found because [Batteries] is not opened.
<Yoric[DT]>
(I don't know why)
<Yoric[DT]>
In turn, [Batteries] is not opened because that particular part of the META file doesn't work.
<Yoric[DT]>
(currently, we're using myocamlbuild.ml as a workaround)
<_zack>
ah ok, so the problem is not specific of the toplevel, but you have an external workaround
<_zack>
anyhow I'm running out of time for tonight, I'm leaving really soon now, I'll have a look tomorrow
<_zack>
see you then
<Yoric[DT]>
Ok, thanks.
<Yoric[DT]>
See you then.
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<_zack>
(BTW: the preliminary debian packages are *ready* I just need to fill in the proper descriptions!)
<Camarade_Tux>
Yoric[DT], this morning I said I would probably be reinstalling godi and everything, guess what ?
<Yoric[DT]>
What?
<Camarade_Tux>
I wiped half of my hard drive :)
<Yoric[DT]>
:/
<Camarade_Tux>
/bin, most of /usr, ...
<Yoric[DT]>
With GODI?
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<Camarade_Tux>
no, with a shell script I was *debugging*
<Yoric[DT]>
:/
<Camarade_Tux>
the funny part is that music keeps on playing, vim is still working perfectly, xterm is just a bit useless as I can't run anything but that was fun :)
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<det>
What is the point of "val" and "method private" in OCaml objects ? Can't both of these be replaces with a let statement before the object declaration ?
<bluestorm>
hm
<bluestorm>
val are specific to the object instance
<bluestorm>
while the let-declared values are not
<bluestorm>
(same for method private, wich can depend on the val-declared values)
<det>
specific to the object instance ?
<det>
"let f () = let a = 0 in object method a = a end" "let f () = object val a = 0 method a = a end"
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<det>
I don't see the difference
<bluestorm>
hm
<bluestorm>
actually, let-declared values are specific to the instance too
<bluestorm>
i was wrong
<flux>
det, you can find a difference by playing with this class: class a = object(self) val a = ref 0 method private b = ref 0 method access_a = a method access_b = self#b end;;
<det>
Ok, so private and val only make sense in the context of inheritence
<det>
That makes sense, thanks.
<flux>
hm, actually, my hint was based on faulty testing :)
<Yoric[DT]>
grmph...
<flux>
however, a#access_b is created each time
<Yoric[DT]>
That Ref problem is complex.
<flux>
what is the Ref-problem? some library building related issue with batteries?
<Yoric[DT]>
Well, one of the modules of Batteries is [Ref].
<flux>
atleast the documentation for it looks absurd
<Yoric[DT]>
Now, if we don't put [Ref] in the list of modules which must be linked into the .cmxa, then linking examples against the .cmxa works but loading the .cma into the toplevel fails.
<bluestorm>
(what's the difference between Ref and any other module ?)
<Yoric[DT]>
If we put [Ref] in that list, linking examples against the .cmxa fails and something else fails in the toplevel.
<Yoric[DT]>
bluestorm: probably just a matter of dependencies.
<Yoric[DT]>
This module depends on nothing.
<Yoric[DT]>
It's actually slightly more complex.
<Yoric[DT]>
Essentially, both the .cma and the .cmxa work if I don't link Ref manually (because it has already been linked by some -pack) but when loading the .cma, the toplevel complains that it can't find Ref.
<flux>
have you tried building a version of Batteries with nothing else than Ref?
<flux>
and, assuming that works, continue with binary search ;)
<Yoric[DT]>
:)
<Yoric[DT]>
Well, it won't work.
<Yoric[DT]>
I mean, to link only Ref, I need to rip apart large chunks of Batteries.
<flux>
yes, but as you said, Ref depends on nothing, so atleast it should be relatively painless.. but I understand, there can be build-related issues making that difficult.
<flux>
but, I'm off to sleep
<Yoric[DT]>
'night
<flux>
happy hacking - or good night
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<Camarade_Tux>
Yoric[DT], it was not that terrible after all :)
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<Yoric[DT]>
Well, bugfixing will wait for tomorrow.
<Yoric[DT]>
Good night everyone.
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