flux changed the topic of #ocaml to: Discussions about the OCaml programming language | http://caml.inria.fr/ | Grab OCaml 3.10.2 from http://caml.inria.fr/ocaml/release.html (featuring new camlp4 and more!)
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<JonDHarrop> hello
<det> hi
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<Palace_Chan> if in a module A i have : type vardecl = { vdecl_name : string; vdecl_ty : typ; vdecl_init : exp}, and i want to return a record of that type from another module (actually ocamlyacc) how can i do so ?
<Palace_Chan> A.vardecl {vdecl_name = $1; vdecl_ty = etc...} ?
<thelema> {A.vdecl_name = $1; vdecl_ty= etc...}
<Palace_Chan> thelema, ahh kk thanks (was driving me insaaane)
<thelema> namespaces for records can get tricky. Just remember that the field names are unique within their namespace.
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<Palace_Chan> wow, 940 reduce/reduce conflicts, 14 rules not reduced, and 164 shift/reduce conflicts...all by adding....28-30 lines of code
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<Palace_Chan> anybody know how to read/interpret this error message in the parser.output file from ocamlyacc:
<Palace_Chan> 24: shift/reduce conflict (shift 56, reduce 35) on OP_MINUS state 24
<Palace_Chan> what is the 56 and the 35 ?
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<batcoder-7> in OO in ocaml is # a operator ?
<batcoder-7> i haven't touched the OO part of ocaml
<det> # is infix syntax for invoking a method
<det> object#method
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<Yoric[DT]> hi
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<thelema> yor: As much as I'm not sure of unicode going into extlib, you did a good job of merging.
<thelema> doh, he's gone.
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<tsuyoshi> I did a binding that covered everything in db4.4, save one call
<tsuyoshi> but it's on a computer in my parents' garage in redmond
<flux> :)
<Camarade_Tux> tsuyoshi, are you saying that because of nyingen's question or haven't you seen it ?
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<psnively> Testing...
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* Yoric[DT] saw psnively
<Camarade_Tux> Yoric[DT], so, should we expect a Batteries release this week-end ?
<psnively> Thanks!
<Camarade_Tux> psnively, btw, testing what ?
<Yoric[DT]> Camarade_Tux: hopefully
<Yoric[DT]> (sorry, phone)
<psnively> Colloquy has an annoying bug where sometimes input vanishes.
<Camarade_Tux> Yoric[DT], sure, I should go back to my livecd creator anyway ;)
<Camarade_Tux> well, ...should
<Camarade_Tux> psnively, that's sure annoying...
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<psnively> Ain't it?
<Camarade_Tux> doesn't adium support irc ? or maybe you don't like it ?
<Camarade_Tux> or you can also fire up the toplevel and use it as a client :p
<myki> Hello. I'm wondering if it's simple way to define rec function that checks if it's argument (a' list) is a palindrome?
<Camarade_Tux> myki, hmm, maybe you could build reverse the list in a new list and when you find the end of the first list, you compare the two lists
<myki> Camarade_Tux: yeah, I've thought if I had List.end, similar to Haskels last, it would be quick, but I can't find it, and browsing throught the whole list on each iteration doesn't make much sense. Maybe it's an error in the exercise.
<Camarade_Tux> myki, do you know the match construct ?
<flux> it'll be horribly slow one simple rec function, but perhaps that's not the point
<Camarade_Tux> ...shouldn't it be 2n in both time and memory ?
<myki> Camarade_Tux: nope, I started learning ocaml just today, but I'll stick with defining my own last function, thanks
<batcoder-7> is the # is a requirement for calling a method ?
<batcoder-7> is there any other things that can work ?
<Camarade_Tux> myki, match is used for pattern-matching
<flux> it _might_ be possible with magic and trickery (like stuff on the Obj-module), but # is really the only real way
<batcoder-7> ok
<flux> once you have a method though, you can wrap it to a function, of course
<flux> but I'm not sure what is the point of the question
<batcoder-7> flux: its just wierd using it like that
<Camarade_Tux> you'd do something like 'match lst with | hd::tl -> (...) | [] -> print_endline "end"'
<flux> batcoder-7, it's weird typing foo#bar ?
<flux> it's just syntax, you'll get over it ;)
<batcoder-7> hehehe
<batcoder-7> flux: i've been using ocaml for a while just never the OOP aspect
<flux> I suppose you could write a syntax extension to pick another character ;)
<Camarade_Tux> batcoder-7, most people don't
<Camarade_Tux> I guess the first encounter with ocaml's oo features is lablgtk for 95% of people ;)
<batcoder-7> i know ocaml heavily relies on a functional style
<batcoder-7> well not the language but people who use it
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<flux> I don't mind the oo features
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<flux> infact I do make use them quite a lot
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<batcoder-7> ocaml is such an interesting language
<flux> http://modeemi.cs.tut.fi/~flux/goba/ uses them too ;) </plug>
<Camarade_Tux> of course, they're nice, I just don't use them so often
<flux> the thing is, OO is an advanced subject in O'Caml
<flux> so it may not be the first thing a developer is going to learn
<Camarade_Tux> true, it quickly gets complicated
<batcoder-7> i didn't find it that complicated
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<batcoder-7> just standard OO as OO is
<flux> batcoder-7, but then you didn't perhaps make use of type constraints etc
<Camarade_Tux> batcoder-7, some features are really evolved
<batcoder-7> ah
<batcoder-7> to be honet i havent even used it yet, just reading about it now hehe
<flux> and the compiler errors can be surprising
<flux> like this: object (self) method a = self#b ^ "1" method b = 42 end
<flux> one would perhaps hope that the error was at self#b, but it's at the b's definition..
<batcoder-7> i see
<flux> in any case, I don't think goba makes use of any advanced stuff
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<Camarade_Tux> flux, does goba need good latencies for multi-player ?
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<flux> I don't really know
<flux> I haven't much tested it ;)
<flux> it does however attempt to take latencies into account
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<flux> also it uses tcp, and tcp is sensitive to dropped packets
<flux> so that can be a problem
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<Camarade_Tux> I just have very bad pings here and don't know if it will ever be sorted but I've already found the one I'll force to play (Asmadeus !)
<Yoric[DT]> Camarade_Tux: when Batteries comes out, it will be an alpha version, of course.
<Yoric[DT]> General question, as yesterday: does anyone around here have a GODI account?
* Yoric[DT] is about to try and write a package for coThreads.
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<Camarade_Tux> Yoric[DT], I was asking before I could make a livecd for ocaml by the end of the week and thought about making a version with batteries (the only thing that slows me down is irc ;p)
<Camarade_Tux> but I don't know if it's necessary, I mean, does the installation of batteries change anything to the system ? (overwrites/renames/delete files)
<rwmjones> we should so have something like Pod::Usage in ocaml ... it's such a great feature of perl ...
<Yoric[DT]> Camarade_Tux: well, not besides its own files.
<Yoric[DT]> rwmjones: what's that?
<Camarade_Tux> Yoric[DT], ok, good, then no need for something separate
<rwmjones> Yoric[DT], in perl you put the man page for the program into the script, and Pod::Usage allows you to add something that prints --help or man page from the command line
<Yoric[DT]> rwmjones: ah, ok.
<Yoric[DT]> Is that so useful?
* Camarade_Tux finds it ugly, hard to write, hard to maintain
<rwmjones> Yoric[DT], if you're writing command line tools, it's bloody useful
<rwmjones> now I can just do
<rwmjones> nsiswrapper --help
<rwmjones> and it prints out the embedded documentation
<rwmjones> or nsiswrapper --man which prints out the man-page
<rwmjones> or pod2man nsiswrapper.pl > nsiswrapper.1
<rwmjones> it's basically web-like literate programming
<Camarade_Tux> rwmjones, can it be rather "sourced" from another file ?
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<rwmjones> Camarade_Tux, I believe so yes
<rwmjones> but mostly in perl you tend to write one-off scripts
<rwmjones> OCaml could do with, with a camlp4 extension perhaps
<rwmjones> s/with/this/
<Yoric[DT]> Gasp, my camlp4 extension to auto-open Batteries works.
<Camarade_Tux> actually in a separate file, I have nothing against that, just not in a .ml
<Yoric[DT]> But it's *very* slow.
* Yoric[DT] needs to find a way to just add something at the top of a file from Camlp4.
<rwmjones> Camarade_Tux, literate programming though ... keep the documentation alongside the program
<Camarade_Tux> Yoric[DT], but it's great still !
<Camarade_Tux> rwmjones, but what do you get ? a 3000 lines string ?
<rwmjones> Camarade_Tux, no no ... you do ./program --help and the program (which would be a #!/usr/bin/ocamlrun ocaml script) would read itself to find the documentation and print it
<Camarade_Tux> Yoric[DT], when you find it, could you share it with me ? that would be really useful to me \o/
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<Camarade_Tux> rwmjones, I mean in the source file, I'm usually against writing long strings directly in the source because I think they reduce readability
<Yoric[DT]> ertai[NP]: ping
<rwmjones> Camarade_Tux, perl has a literate syntax for this ... you write
<rwmjones> =pod
<rwmjones> =head1 HEADING
<rwmjones> ...
<rwmjones> =cut
<rwmjones> and then back to code
<rwmjones> so there are no long strings
<Camarade_Tux> I saw that but was quite surprised, I'll be learning perl in not so long but I have to say I find it quite ugly...
<rwmjones> lol
<Camarade_Tux> I've only used ocamldoc a little but couldn't we rely (partially) on it for this task ?
<Camarade_Tux> rwmjones, I just don't parse the syntax
<rwmjones> Camarade_Tux, it's a different philosophy ... perl is excellently suited to writing scripts
<rwmjones> although in a former job I managed a 100,000 line Perl web app
<Camarade_Tux> *cough*
<rwmjones> however, now I'm back to writing bits of perl, I really miss many aspects of ocaml, particularly strong typing
<Yoric[DT]> mmmhh....
<rwmjones> but some things about perl are definitely still cool
* Yoric[DT] wonders if a Camlp4 pretty-printer couldn't be more useful there than a Camlp4 pre-processor.
<Yoric[DT]> Actually, it shouldn't be that slow.
<Yoric[DT]> Now that I think about it, my parser doesnt' do much.
<Yoric[DT]> So perhaps the sluggishness is not related to my extension.
* Camarade_Tux wonders why people have to keep on resurrecting tubes from the 80s at each party ;p
<Camarade_Tux> Yoric[DT], I too thought that even though I had not seen your parser, I was really surprised
<Camarade_Tux> rwmjones, I think I'll get used to perl, as long as it's not java...
<Yoric[DT]> Camarade_Tux: well, the first version deserved to be slow :)
<Yoric[DT]> But the second version only changes the definition of [implem], something which is only parsed once.
<Yoric[DT]> (per file)
<Camarade_Tux> Yoric[DT], well I trust you on that, but I also think that you wouldn't release a dirty thing and tell us to try, now would you ? =P
<rwmjones> Camarade_Tux, having programmed professionally in both, I'd rather chop both my legs off than program in java again. Perl is very pleasant.
<Yoric[DT]> Camarade_Tux: not before this week-end :)
<Camarade_Tux> btw, I know that schools in France are now hopefully abandonning Java
* Yoric[DT] hopes that Gerd or someone with GODI access returns by then, though.
<Yoric[DT]> Camarade_Tux: are they?
<Yoric[DT]> My university is keeping Java very much, thank you.
<Yoric[DT]> Well, no thank you, but you get the idea.
<Camarade_Tux> it's really a looks like a beginning but I agree it's too early to conclude it will disappear from schools
<Camarade_Tux> s/it's/it
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<Yoric[DT]> rwmjones: is coThreads packaged for Fedora/Red Hat?
<Yoric[DT]> Camarade_Tux: well, good.
<Yoric[DT]> What's replacing it?
<mbishop> C++! *hides*
<rwmjones> Yoric[DT], what's coThread?
<rwmjones> coThreads?
<mbishop> one of last years Jane street projects
<mbishop> has STM and such
<Yoric[DT]> Utilities for threads + a reimplementation of Thread et al. with processes.
<rwmjones> Yoric[DT], ah .. first I've heard of it actually. No, but I'll put in a feature request. Is this something that will block batteries?
<Yoric[DT]> And the promise of a distributed engine for a future version.
<Yoric[DT]> No, not a block.
<batcoder-7> i need to actually start reading documentation
<Yoric[DT]> I was about to start adding it to Batteries when I realized that I should perhaps start by checking if it was packaged for the rpm world :)
<Yoric[DT]> (it's packaged for the deb world)
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<Camarade_Tux> Yoric[DT], mosly python and C it seems, apparently, school are less java-fits-and-solves-everything
<Yoric[DT]> ok
<Yoric[DT]> Well, I think it's saner.
<Yoric[DT]> Even if the students end up doing Java in their job.
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<rwmjones> Yoric[DT], RTP is here: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=466168
<rwmjones> Yoric[DT], if you add yourself as CC to that bug you'll get updates
* Yoric[DT] is trying to understand the cocan graph.
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<rwmjones> Yoric[DT], is it not obvious? what don't you understand?
<Yoric[DT]> I think I'm starting to figure it out.
<Yoric[DT]> Well, version numbers.
<Yoric[DT]> Are these distro versions of lib versions?
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<Yoric[DT]> I assume lib versions.
<rwmjones> Yoric[DT], Fedora has a release every 6 months. So Fedora 10 (devel) is about to be released.
<rwmjones> the numbers in the middle are versions of the upstream package
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<Yoric[DT]> Ok, got it now.
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<rwmjones> along the top you've got Fedora 8, 9, 10 and "pending" (meaning waiting to be released)
<rwmjones> and also EPEL 4 and EPEL 5 which are special distributions that refer to Red Hat Enterprise Linux versions 4 & 5
<rwmjones> ie. the pay-for stuff
* Yoric[DT] is now back to trying to figure out the Makefile of coThread.
<Yoric[DT]> Yes, now, I understand.
<Yoric[DT]> For some reason, I started out believing that these were competitor distros.
<Yoric[DT]> Rather than a mostly time-based graph.
<rwmjones> Yoric[DT], if you mouse-over the links, it should print an explanation (if your browser does that)
<Yoric[DT]> Nice :)
<Yoric[DT]> Ah, found the real Makefile.
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* Camarade_Tux fights with shell scripting
<Yoric[DT]> rwmjones: thanks for the RTP
<Yoric[DT]> rwmjones: should I add comments?
<jonafan> is there a way to inspect an object using the repl?
<rwmjones> Yoric[DT], if you like :-) however I suggest adding yourself to the CC list first. You'll need to create a bugzilla account to do that IIRC
<Yoric[DT]> thanks
* Yoric[DT] is now testing his godi package for coThreads.
<Yoric[DT]> mph
<Yoric[DT]> Patch doesn't work.
<Yoric[DT]> rwmjones: since you're our patch expert, can you give me a hand?
* Yoric[DT] doesn't understand the error message.
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<rwmjones> Yoric[DT], chotto matte ne?
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<Yoric[DT]> :)
<Yoric[DT]> (thank google for quick translations)
<jonafan> sou desu ne
<Yoric[DT]> cheers
<rwmjones> hai
<rwmjones> Yoric[DT], so you typed nothing at the 'file to patch' prompt?
<jonafan> biiru nihon onegai shimasu
<rwmjones> japanese beer sucks
<Yoric[DT]> rwmjones: that was done automatically by GODI, I guess.
<jonafan> watashi no tokoro de nanika nomimasu ka
<rwmjones> Yoric[DT], basically that patch doesn't apply because GODI should have passed an option like -p0/-p1/-p2 to the patch command
<rwmjones> it's another reason why patch sucks
<Yoric[DT]> ok
* Yoric[DT] wonders how to tell GODI to do that kind of thing.
<rwmjones> I can't really say more w/o knowing more about GODI, but it's a bug in GODI so talk to them
<Yoric[DT]> Ah, ok, it seems there's a naming conventions for patches going to subdirectories.
<Yoric[DT]> Thanks for the help.
<rwmjones> Yoric[DT], it's because patches can be generated at a different directory level from where they are applied
<Yoric[DT]> mmhh...
<rwmjones> so the -p option (which is crucial in all this) is used to tell the patch command what the difference in level was
<Yoric[DT]> Except that's what I had already done.
<rwmjones> the whole thing sucks greatly, but it's how it is
<Yoric[DT]> Well.
<Yoric[DT]> Yeah.
<Yoric[DT]> Thanks.
* rwmjones goes
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<jonafan> is there a way to inspect an object using the repl?
<jonafan> some aspects of lablGtk2 are not documented as well as you'd want
<Yoric[DT]> jonafan: I don't think there's a way yet.
<Camarade_Tux> jonafan, what did you want to now, maybe we can help (though I doubt it)
<jonafan> well how do you set a font for a text box?
<jonafan> - : GText.view = <obj>
<jonafan> x#misc#style?
<Camarade_Tux> just give me some more time, even google takes 10s to load because of the incredibly bad pings I have
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<jonafan> heh. i have satellite internet at my house
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<jonafan> pings over a second
<jonafan> sucks
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<Camarade_Tux> shared broadband, shared with people trying to run p2p apps behind two NATs and using internet for youtube and others =/
<Camarade_Tux> had you seen font_selection ? I don't know if it can apply to only a text box though
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<jonafan> the dialog box?
<Camarade_Tux> there's something else, I'm checking if it is doing the proper thing but lablgtk does not bind all gtk unfortunately
<Palace_Chan> i've got a function: let rec rev_il_of_ast (cxt : cgcxt) : exp -> cgcxt = function
<Palace_Chan> | _ -> failwith "whatever" which i have to fill out...but i dont understand the type...it takes cxt of type cgcxt ok..but then it has another parameter of type exp but it seems unnamed so how can i use it !?
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<Camarade_Tux> jonafan, Gobject.property could be alright
<Camarade_Tux> with the property being named "font-name" (not sure thoughà
<Camarade_Tux> )
<jonafan> property?
<Camarade_Tux> not directly, it's a type in fact but there must be corresponding methods
<Camarade_Tux> so it would be a property named "gtk-font-name" or "font-name"
<Camarade_Tux> I'll let you find the method yourself though, I'm getting really tired
<jonafan> ah hah
<jonafan> x#misc#style#set_font
<jonafan> now.... how does one get his hands on a Gdk.font ........
<Camarade_Tux> congratulations ! that was definitely hidden
<Camarade_Tux> lol ;p
<jonafan> Gdk.Font.load takes a string
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<jonafan> takes a string and returns an exception
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<Camarade_Tux> jonafan, gtk apps are actually quite annoying with font names
<jonafan> it seems so
<Camarade_Tux> you'd better dump the font availables to know how they look like (with dashes between names ?)
<gildor> jonafan, Camarade_Tux: you should use pango
<jonafan> hey it worked
<jonafan> load "-*-arial-medium-r-normal-*-17-120-100-100-p-*-*-*";;
<Camarade_Tux> gildor, I've never really understood where the line between pango and non-pango laid
<gildor> pango is more flexible
<Camarade_Tux> jonafan, dash-orgy ! (went through that for gvim)
<Camarade_Tux> gildor, but can we use it anywhere we like ?
<gildor> In text widget, for sure
<gildor> (in GTK)
<jonafan> looks like there is GPango
<jonafan> after coaxing the repl to do things, i feel like ending all my sentences with ;;
<Camarade_Tux> gildor, do you think it's available for something like a button ?
<Camarade_Tux> jonafan, hopefully xavierbot is not active ;)
<jonafan> hehe
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<Camarade_Tux> I hate that, my script works in zsh but not bash...
<gildor> Camarade_Tux: i think you can use it through markup (directly in the text of the buton)
<gildor> or throught GObject properties
<gildor> but markup is far more simple
<gildor> <span foreground="blue" size="x-large" style="italic">My button</span>
<Camarade_Tux> gildor, actually I thought that that markup was to be used with the non-pango text rendering engine
* Camarade_Tux mixed everything
<gildor> This is pure pango things ;-)
<gildor> and you don't have to deal with Gdk.font which is very complicated
<gildor> more over, pango is more cross platform (in fact, it will be more flexible when trying to find a font that match you requirement)
<jonafan> awesome
<Camarade_Tux> gildor, thanks, good to know, it may be handy in a few weeks :)
<jonafan> now the simple matter of figuring out how to put text in a text view
<Camarade_Tux> bash is sooo stupid I'm actually considering chaning my shebangs to #!/bin/zsh...
<gildor> you need to creat a buffer
* Camarade_Tux doesn't insult bash anymore, typo and some parameters
<gildor> view#set_buffer (GText.buffer ~text:"toto" ())
<gildor> or sthg like that
<jonafan> excellent
* Yoric[DT] goes back to documenting Batteries.
* Camarade_Tux goes to sleep ;)
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<jonafan> ah HAH
<jonafan> x#misc#modify_font (GPango.font_description "Courier New 20");;
<jonafan> much nicer
<jonafan> ps: how silly is GMain.Main.main ();;
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<Yoric[DT]> thelema: ping
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<Yoric[DT]> Gasp, nearly 2am.
* Yoric[DT] works in 6 hours.
<Yoric[DT]> Time to call this a night.
<Yoric[DT]> Good night everyone.
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