gildor changed the topic of #ocaml to: Discussions about the OCaml programming language | http://caml.inria.fr/ | OCaml 3.12.1 http://bit.ly/nNVIVH
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<Drakken> Why doesn't odb put packages somewhere like /usr/local/lib/ocaml or /usr/local/lib/ocaml/odb?
<_habnabit> what's wrong with where it puts things right now
<Drakken> It forces the user to create a config file or environment variable.
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<superbobry> gildor: do you plan to include for-pack patch in the new OASIS release?
<superbobry> Drakken: because /usr/* requires odb to install with sudo, which is by no means safe
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<gildor> superbobry: pack -> yes, there is a patch pending from Jane Street (for 0.3.0)
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<superbobry> nice :) been waiting for this
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<merijn> Is there a convenient way to get a string representation of a data type? (a la Haskell's show)
<f[x]> merijn, see deriving, sexplib, Std.dump
<merijn> f[x]: Thanks. So I guess I'm screwed when I'm stuck with just the stdlib?
<f[x]> yes
<merijn> ok, thanks anyway :)
<f[x]> use combinators to get monomorphic printer
<f[x]> like: List.iter (print_tuple print_int print_string) [1,"2"]
<f[x]> and write all those combinators by hand
<f[x]> afaik batteries provides many of them
<merijn> f[x]: The problem is, I've been asked to help come up with some example exercises for the functional languages class here. Ocaml + stdlib is installed on all the machines, but getting IT to install something new like batteries/deriving or other libraries will take weeks at best. Rendering the point moot since the students will have had to complete the exercises before then.
<merijn> So I'll just have to change some of my ideas to rely less on outputting arbitrary data
<flux> it indeed might be a good idea to not focus on output, because IMO it's not the best fature of ocaml :). (overloaded printer functions would be nice here)
<merijn> flux: I agree that IO in general is not the best feature of functional languages, but making interesting exercises without any IO whatsoever is rather tricky :p
<flux> that partially applied function can really have many concepts to understand before you get to really understand how it works
<flux> merijn, well, there must be IO at some point I guess :).
<taupin> merijn: on the other hand, it probably would be interesting for your students to learn how to program some basic printers like "print_tuple" and so on
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<merijn> taupin: True, but without a generic print function that becomes rather ugly, doesn't it? You'd need to create a separate instance for each tuple type...
<merijn> Well, I guess you could pass the print functions as arguments
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<merijn> Ok, so maybe I'm just stupid but I can't for the life of me figure out how one would define Either in ocaml. Once I try to add a second type variable I get an unhelpful "Syntax Error" and I can't find any example code using multiple type variables.
<_habnabit> type ('a, 'b) either = Left 'a | Right 'b
<_habnabit> er, with 'of'
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<merijn> _habnabit: Thanks!
<flux> mm
<flux> right, the missing word was added, nevermind :)
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<Kakadu> flux: hi! Did u have a free time on weekend to look on my crash in lablqt?
<flux> kakadu, unfortunately no
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<Kakadu> maybe some other heroes exist?
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<adrien> it probably won't be me but what was your issue?
<Kakadu> executables crashes
<Kakadu> no idea how to fix
<adrien> gdb stacktrace?
<adrien> and you found a specific commit?
<Kakadu> everything fails after caml_send0 ()
<adrien> where? :P
<Kakadu> adrien: no specific commit. Im trying to implement an idea about inheritance and I've crated test project
<Kakadu> wiki about inheritance
<Kakadu> the widget is shown. I press any key and it crashes
<adrien> I've had your wiki page opened in my browser for a week or so and still haven't had time to read it properly =/
<Kakadu> )
<Kakadu> Any others morituri?
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<Kakadu> btw, how package manager for OCaml should look like?
<adrien> what do you mean? "package manager"?
<flux> like.. godi?
<flux> or something that oeasis might be some day (or already?)
<flux> o-a-s-i-s
<adrien> and are you pondering making a "new" one?
<flux> personally I'm not that happy with godi; it doesn't interact well with system stuff (like ocaml..) and making patches to its packages is painful
<flux> I'm hopeful about oasis :)
<flux> (even though it might not do the exact same thing)
<Kakadu> russian community is thinking about creatin package manager for OCaml. (autoinstallation dependences, webservice with info about dependecies, integration with system packages abd libs)
<adrien> making patches is "fine": not great but ok
<adrien> but only after some learning
<adrien> odb.ml :P
<adrien> and where is the russian community? #ocaml-ru?
<adrien> I know there are several russian people but I'm under the impression we don't see them much
<flux> kakadu, I'm under the impression oasis in on its way exactly there
<Kakadu> adrien: #ocaml@conference.jabber.ru
<adrien> ok
<gildor> Kakadu: that is exactly what oasis-db does, what the reason to create something new rather than contributing to oasis ?
<adrien> and oasis, oasis-db and odb are in a pretty good shape already
<Kakadu> people said that odb has very old info and this info doen't updates regulary
<gildor> adrien: indeed
<gildor> Kakadu: odb update ASAP you upload something to oasis-db
<adrien> Kakadu: it cannot be "very" old
<gildor> Kakadu: upload something now, it will be available in 2 second in odb
<adrien> the project is too young: oculd there be another project named "odb"?
<superbobry> well, the problem with odb -- it needs a maintainer
<superbobry> somebody should update OASIS db records
<gildor> superbobry: what records ?
<gildor> the DB for ODB inside OASIS, you mean ?
<superbobry> yup
<gildor> there is the unstable flavor that is automatically updated, to reflext latest upload
<gildor> testing/stable need to be updated
<gildor> (or we can agree on a delay for transition)
<superbobry> okay, how about latest dev versions?
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<superbobry> there's now way of installing something directly from git / darcs with odb
<gildor> superbobry: the one that only live in the SCM of the project ?
<superbobry> well, the one that is not hosted on forge f. ex.
<gildor> superbobry: maybe a project but not a top priority project, because it will require some works
<superbobry> we're thinking about something rebar-like (http://github.com/basho/rebar)
<superbobry> just a plain text file with all dependencies
<flux> it'd be nice if something like this worked odb install http://bar/baz
<gildor> superbobry: but information should be there (i.e. there is a SourceRepo section that should tell oasis-db where to find the source)
* gildor at work, so will wait until tonight (+7h before continuing a long talk)
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<superbobry> sure :)
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<hcarty> I would think that a lack support for installation from git/darcs/svn/etc repos is hardly a major shortcoming of odb/oasis-db
<thelema> hcarty: yes, but it'd be nice to draw directly from repositories
<thelema> hcarty: what's the biggest shortcoming of odb that you see?
<hcarty> You'd have a hard time finding a more successful related tool than CPAN and it lacks that feature
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<hcarty> thelema: Maybe automated package upgrades (ex. ./odb.ml --update-all)
<thelema> hcarty: granted. so... a GUI? the ability to install precompiled binaries on windows?
<hcarty> thelema: For my own use Windows is well down on the list of important features. It is probably an important overall feature though.
<hcarty> thelema: I agree that support for automated builds from source repositories would be cool, but I don't think it's much of a killer feature.
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<thelema> a testing infrastructure to test compile all the oasis-db packages and report failures?
<hcarty> A more useful feature might be automated pushes to oasis-db through oasis or a related tool
<hcarty> Automated package testing would be nice
<hcarty> Automatic build + test on multiple platforms whenever a package is added/updated
<hcarty> Like CPAN I suppose
<thelema> hcarty: exactly
<hcarty> thelema: Having an easy "make oasis-db-push" target would be handy, or a similar support from the VCS (git odb-push tag-for-vX.Y.Z)
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<thelema> hcarty: That's a good scripting project; I wonder if curl can do a file upload via http
<flux> I'd like to say it can, but I cannot remember for certain
<thelema> flux: If so, this should be doable in a bash one-liner
<thelema> grr, except the login session would have to be created...
<thelema> well, doable with some server support
<hcarty> thelema: Yes, there would likely need to be a special path for these automated uploads
<hcarty> Code path that is
<gildor> hcarty: it already exists in the darcs version
<gildor> http://darcs.ocamlcore.org/cgi-bin/darcsweb.cgi?r=oasis/oasis-db;a=headblob;f=/src/cli/ODBCLIUpload.ml
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<hcarty> thelema: gasche said he saw an error in the verify_arg ocamldoc comment. Do you know what the error is?
<hcarty> gildor: Very cool :-)
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<gildor> hcarty: automatic build and testing, can be done on top of oasis
<gildor> hcarty: you have ocaml setup.ml -configure/-build/-test that helps you to do that
<thelema> hcarty: round?
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<gildor> hcarty: and just have to detect when new package gets uploaded
<hcarty> thelema: His first point in his comment on the pull request I submitted is that there is a bug in the verify_arg doc comment.
<thelema> gildor: how much work do you estimate is needed?
<thelema> hcarty: hmm, I didn't notice that - I'll investigate
<hcarty> thelema: Thanks. I didn't see a bug with "make doc" but I may have missed something
<thelema> hcarty: oh, it does say verify_arg. I had just read that as round.
<thelema> hcarty: looks good to me. I guess you could use @raises and @since
<hcarty> gildor: Yes, as long as the package has an _oasis file a basic implementation should be possible.
<hcarty> thelema: Good points on both.
<hcarty> gildor: The implementation would require a bit of effort in assembling multiple versions of OCaml for staging and compiling against, and then running the same test on multiple platforms
<hcarty> gildor: I think that these things would be useful, but I'm not sure where they would rank versus other development priorities.
<thelema> speaking of which, what are the development priorities of oasis/oasis-db?
<thelema> hcarty: wow, how did we both miss the bug in verify_arg documentation.
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<gildor> thelema, hcarty: @work now, will spend some time talking about oasis tonight around 8-9PM CEST (so in +4/5H), you don't mind waiting to talk about that ?
<gildor> (I have already talk about waiting until that moment to superbobry)
<hcarty> gildor: Sounds good
<thelema> gildor: see you then.
<hcarty> thelema: Oh wow... yes, that's quite an oversight
<hcarty> It may be a day or few before I can make any bugfixes, but gasche's comments on pull request 180 all seem reasonable
<hcarty> Including the request for IRC log links when relevant and summaries on the mailing list when discussions happen on IRC
<everyonemines> Any suggestions for a good full size scissor switch keyboard?
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<Drakken> Why does odb put code in the user's home directory by default instead of /usr/local/lib?
<thelema> Drakken: I guess it could autodetect whether the current user has permissions to `ocamlc -where`
<thelema> Drakken: if you have a few minutes to hack that up...
<Drakken> thelema could you explain pls?
<thelema> the short version is: I needed homedir installation ofr my purposes, so it was what was first implemented. Then I patched on top of that --sudo and a bunch of other options to adapt it for others
<thelema> explain autodetection?
<Drakken> explain ocamlc -where?
<thelema> $ ocamlc -where
<thelema> /usr/local/lib/ocaml
<thelema> hmm, maybe there's an ocamlfind -where
<thelema> ocamlc knows where the stdlib is located. Other libraries (pre ocamlfind) installed there so they were easily found.
<thelema> since we're using ocamlfind, we only need to install locally if we can't install to the ocamlfind destdir
<thelema> $ ocamlfind printconf destdir
<thelema> /usr/local/lib/ocaml/site-lib
<thelema> bingo
<Drakken> okay, I got it
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<Kakadu> hi!
<Kakadu> Does anybody have found some interesting articles about neural networks and functional programming?
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<hcarty> Drakken: --sudo and related options are nice, but it's handy having odb default to an installation under ~ as it allows it to work with system OCaml installations without touching system directories
<tomprince> If you are installing to system directories, shouldn't one be using a package manager, which passes the appropriate options anyway?
<hcarty> tomprince: odb is a package manager like CPAN, rather than a package manager like dpkg/apt*
<hcarty> One could argue that something like CPAN or odb shouldn't touch system-managed directories
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<tomprince> Yes, although creating a package for dpkg, etc could reasonably use odb under the hood. (which is what I was suggesting)
<hcarty> tomprince: I think oasis has (or is planned to have) support for this
<hcarty> It seems more appropriate for oasis than odb
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<Drakken> hcarty every .tar.gz file I download installs to /usr/local/lib/* by default. Why would odb want to avoid that?
<adrien> tbh, /usr/loca:/lib is pretty bad :-)
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<adrien> also, it's not as useful on a machine where there is mostly onlyone user and one user who is interested in the package
<hcarty> Drakken: Because that isn't how the OCaml ecosystem works :-)
<hcarty> Also, what adrien said. Defaulting to /usr/local/lib/ is a pain for any user without root access.
<Drakken> How does the OCaml ecosystem work?
<zorun> it is also a pain for the others :)
<hcarty> Drakken: ocamlfind installs to whatever directory is specified in its configuration file or environment variables
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<hcarty> If you are the only user on the system then it may be beneficial to install to /usr/* by default
<hcarty> But even then, installing to /usr/* isn't significantly easier than setting a few environment variables.
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<Drakken> In [ocamlfind ocaml* -package package-name-list file], "The package names may be separated by commas and/or whitespace."
<adrien> with quotes
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<superbobry> can somebody please point me to a hello-world type-conv example?
<_habnabit> what's that
<superbobry> for some reason, my generator is not being registered at compile time
<Drakken> odb couldn't install cairo2.
<superbobry> Drakken: what's the error message?
<Drakken> I didn't have ~/.odb/bin in my path, so odb failed with
<Drakken> Problem with installed package: cairo2
<Drakken> Installed package is not available to the system
<Drakken> Make sure /home/dan/.odb/bin is in your PATH
<Drakken> So I added ~/.odb/bin to PATH.
<Drakken> and run odb again.
<Drakken> ocamlfind: Package cairo2 is already installed
<Drakken> Exception: Failure "Could not install package cairo2".
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<superbobry> so is it installed already?
<Drakken> I don't know. What does "Problem with installed package: cairo2" mean? It looks like it's installed but the installer couldn't call it from the bin directory.
<superbobry> well, if you don't have ~/.odb/bin in your PATH and ~/.odb/lib in your OCAMLPATH, odb can't be sure the package was installed
<superbobry> becase there's no way of checking it
<Drakken> It looks like cairo got installed the first time I ran odb, and then the second time I ran odb, it built cairo again but panicked when it found the old installation.
<Drakken> ocamlfind: Package cairo2 is already installed - (file /home/dan/.odb/lib/cairo2/META already exists)
<superbobry> you can allways check with ocamlfind, try ocamlfind list | grep cairo
<Drakken> No, it's not in there.
<Drakken> There's one more error:
<Drakken> E: Command '/usr/local/bin/ocamlfind install cairo2 src/META /home/dan/.odb/install-cairo2/cairo-0.3.4/_build/src//cairo_gtk.cmi /home/dan/.odb/install-cairo2/cairo-0.3.4/_build/src//cairo_gtk.a /home/dan/.odb/install-cairo2/cairo-0.3.4/_build/src//cairo_gtk.cmxa /home/dan/.odb/install-cairo2/cairo-0.3.4/_build/src//cairo_gtk.cmxs /home/dan/.odb/install-cairo2/cairo-0.3.4/_build/src//cairo_gtk.cma /home/dan/.odb/install-cairo2/cai
<Drakken> ro-0.3.4/_build/src//dllcairo_gtk.so /home/dan/.odb/install-cairo2/cairo-0.3.4/_build/src//libcairo_gtk.a src/cairo_gtk.mli /home/dan/.odb/install-cairo2/cairo-0.3.4/_build/src/cairo.cmi /home/dan/.odb/install-cairo2/cairo-0.3.4/_build/src/cairo2.a /home/dan/.odb/install-cairo2/cairo-0.3.4/_build/src/cairo2.cmxa /home/dan/.odb/install-cairo2/cairo-0.3.4/_build/src/cairo2.cmxs /home/dan/.odb/install-cairo2/cairo-0.3.4/_build/src/ca
<Drakken> iro2.cma /home/dan/.odb/install-cairo2/cairo-0.3.4/_build/src/dllcairo2.so /home/dan/.odb/install-cairo2/cairo-0.3.4/_build/src/libcairo2.a src/cairo.mli' terminated with error code 2
<Drakken> whatever that is.
<superbobry> error code 2 means build failed
<superbobry> do you have cairo headers installed?
<Drakken> What's a cairo header?
<Drakken> :)
<superbobry> development files for the cairo library, libcairo-dev / libcairo-devel or something -- look it up in your package manager
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<tomprince> is there anybody creating ocaml packages for gentoo?
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<Drakken> What package manager? Do I really need to do all that just to install a library?
<Drakken> HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
<Drakken> netpkg went into an infinite loop because it couldn't find /var/netpkg/localpkglist :)
<thelema> Drakken: where are you now for cairo?
<superbobry> Drakken: you do, when you need to install OCaml bindings to a C library
<Drakken> thelema I've run odb twice now. I didn't have ~/.odb/bin in $PATH the first time (your web page doesn't mention it), and the second time ...
<Drakken> one moment pls.....
<Drakken> Can you see all the error messages I posted above, or did you just log back in?
<thelema> I can see them, but the formatting makes them hard to read.
<thelema> from what I can tell, the last error is a problem doing `ocamlfind install cairo2`...
<Drakken> ocamlfind: Package cairo2 is already installed - (file /home/dan/.odb/lib/cairo2/META already exists)
<Drakken> that's errmsg 1
<_habnabit> pastebin the entire output
<_habnabit> looking at it piecemeal on irc is very difficult
<thelema> Drakken: try `ocaml odb.ml --force cairo2`
<thelema> although from what you wrote, cairo2 is installed
<Drakken> Any preference of pastebin?
<thelema> the PATH thing is not an error, just a note that to use locally installed libraries, you'll probably want to set them
<ulfdoz> * dev-lang/ocaml
<ulfdoz> Available versions: 3.11.2 3.12.1 {X emacs gdbm latex ncurses +ocamlopt tk xemacs}
<ulfdoz> Homepage: http://www.ocaml.org/
<ulfdoz> Looks reasonable.
<thelema> Drakken: I just use pastebin.com, because I'm lazy
<ulfdoz> Description: Fast modern type-inferring functional programming language descended from the ML family
<thelema> Drakken: it says cairo2 is installed, does it not work for you?
<Drakken> How do I test it?
<thelema> odb.ml archimedes
<gildor> tomprince, hcarty: a tool to prepare Debian package from oasis already exists, it is called oasis2debian
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<thelema> Drakken: in the same message that added to your path, it also said "put ~/.odb/lib in your OCAMLPATH"
<tomprince> Anything similiar for gentoo? I guess not.
<gildor> http://anonscm.debian.org/gitweb/?p=pkg-ocaml-maint/packages/oasis2debian.git;a=summary
<gildor> tomprince: nothing yet
<gildor> tomprince: but starting from oasis2debian, it shouldn't be too hard to build for someone who knows gentoo
<gildor> basically the biggest challenge is to make the link between the findlib name and the package name
<Drakken> thelema I did that before the first try (it's on your web page).
<gildor> e.g. that you should install libcairo-ocaml-dev to get cairo
<gildor> (on debian, I don't know what it is on gentoo)
<thelema> Drakken: what's the output of `ocamlfind query cairo2`?
<tomprince> Well, oasis isn't yet packaged for gentoo, as far as I can tell. (yet :))
<Drakken> not found
<thelema> Drakken: and then in ocaml toplevel: #use "topfind";;#require "findlib";;Findlib.package_property [] p.id "version";;
<thelema> Drakken: echo $OCAMLPATH
<thelema> sorry, that toplevel code doesn't work.
<thelema> p.id == "cairo2"
<Drakken> /home/dan/.odb/lib
<thelema> Drakken: hmm, well, let's try reinstalling. `odb.ml --force cairo2`
<gildor> tomprince: I think oasis is packaged for GODI, Debian, Ubuntu and ArchLinux
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<Drakken> thelema what's p? It's unbound.
<thelema> Drakken: p is the package record, p.id is just a string with the package name
<Drakken> It's unbound.
<thelema> yes, just replace `p.id` with `"cairo2"` if you want to check for cairo2 using the exact same method odb uses.
<thelema> but there seems to be a problem with your cairo2 installation (or your findlib). Are there a bunch of cairo2 files in ~/.odb/lib?
<Drakken> no output from [Findlib.package_property [] "cairo2";;]
<thelema> Findlib.package_property [] "cairo2" "version";; ?
<Drakken> Exception: Fl_package_base.No_such_package ("cairo2", "").
<thelema> so findlib doesn't know about your install of cairo2
<Drakken> There's a cairo2 subdirectory in ~/.odb/lib/, and there are a bunch of files in cairo2/
<thelema> including a META file and a bunch of cairo*.* files?
<Drakken> yep
<Drakken> thelema do you still want me to instlall again? We already tried that, didn't we?
<reynir> Hello o/
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<thelema> drakken: we tried it without "--force"
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<Drakken> No, we tried it with --force.
<Drakken> Hello reynir.
<thelema> Drakken: oh, ok. well, just delete the ~/.odb/lib/cairo2 directory and try installing again
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<Drakken> Am I supposed to be root?
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<thelema> Drakken: grr, one more file to remove - somewhere in ~/.odb/lib there's a dllcairo2.so file
<thelema> I forget the dir, maybe stublibs or something
<Drakken> thelema did you see the "Conflict with Library dllcairo2.so" line?
<thelema> you don't need to be root
<Drakken> dan[lib]$ l stublibs/
<Drakken> dllcairo2.so* dllcairo2.so.owner dllcairo_gtk.so* dllcairo_gtk.so.owner
<thelema> Drakken: yup, you'll have to remove those too
<Drakken> all?
<thelema> yes
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<thelema> hmm...
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<hcarty> thelema, Drakken: Is it CAML_LD_LIRBARY_PATH (or whatever that environment variable is)?
<thelema> hcarty: that would help for compiling with cairo2, but ocamlfind isn't even detecting cairo2's existence
<thelema> I thought that OCAMLPATH and a meta file in the right subdir were the only things necessary - apparently not
<Drakken> Let me know if you guys are getting tired.
<thelema> just a bit stuck.
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<thelema> fwiw, I seem to have some problem with my C libcairo: http://pastebin.com/zecusYU0
<hcarty> thelema: Dev package(s)?
<thelema> hcarty: of course.
<hcarty> thelema: That's what I figured :-)
<thelema> ii libcairo2-dev 1.10.2-6ubuntu Development files for the Cairo 2D graphics
<hcarty> thelema: I don't think the pkg-config would have worked in the first place without them
<hcarty> thelema: Clearly the most significant missing functionality in odb is bash completion!
<thelema> hcarty: yes, I've thought about that.
<thelema> hcarty: but don't know how to do it.
<thelema> I guess I could read my /etc/bash_completion file
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<rgrinberg> I can't seem to install fftw through godi. Here is the error: http://pastebin.com/0DMqGFqj in case anybody knows what could be wrong.
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<gildor> does someone can open a test feature request here
<gildor> (need to test that the restore is ok)
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<thelema> gildor: trying now
<thelema> gildor: created ID 1060
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