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<vanila> is there a place i acn host my mirage server free?
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<ysz> hey
<ysz> any known success with rabbitmq + ocaml?
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<Leonidas> have you tried netamqp?
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<dmbaturin> Is there a good observable example of something that runs as a daemon and uses persistent data structures?
<struk|desk> ysz, Leonidas: I tried it. I couldn't get it going. Always generated runtime exceptions. zeromq on the other hand, I almost enjoyed using
<Leonidas> that probably reflects the state of AMQP vs ZMQ as a whole…
<cojy> dmbaturin: that's a pretty vague criteria... i imagine almost all of them since lists are a persistent data structure in ocaml
<mrvn> cojy: I think he means across restarts
<dmbaturin> cojy: Specifically, I want to see how persistent trees can be implemented. The primary problem is that everything I wrote in ML so far just read some data, churned out some output, and terminated.
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<dmbaturin> So I'm not quite sure how to go about writing something that runs for indefinite time and responds to events while keeping some data and updating it.
<cojy> i imagine the easiest way is with sexplib and using that to serialize/deserialize
<mrvn> dmbaturin: if you don't care about potential incompatibility with different versions of ocaml you can just marshal your data and write it to disk.
<mrvn> sexplib is a bit more work and probably more future proof
<dmbaturin> mrvn: I may be confused about the terminology. I don't meant serialization in this case, I mean functional-style updates of the state.
<cojy> dmbaturin: Map module in ocaml gives you persistent maps
<cojy> based on balanced binary trees
<dmbaturin> I store data in a multi-way tree.
<mrvn> so a database?
<dmbaturin> Mapping a multi-way tree to a database?
<cojy> i still have no idea what you mean by persistent if it's neither serialization or functional data structures
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<mrvn> I have a functor MAKE(struct type 'a key type 'a value end) = struct type ('a, 'b) conv = { key : 'c . 'c key -> 'a; value : 'c . 'c value -> 'b} end. How do I put conv into the signature and make it so users can access the key and value lables?
<dmbaturin> Seems I really have a terminology problem. Why can't a multi-way tree can't be a functional datastructure, and what is the strict definition of a functional datastructure?
<cojy> dmbaturin: is your multi-way tree currently not functional?
<mrvn> dmbaturin: in a functional data structure and change gives you a new structure while you also get to keep the old one.
<mrvn> s/and/any/
<mrvn> let tree = ... let tree_with_a = add tree a let tree_with_b = add tree b will work
<struk|desk> mrvn you can make conv a private record type in the signature
<mrvn> struk|desk: then you can't create any
<struk|desk> mrvn: you provide a create function in the sig, so labels are exposed now but not constructor..isn't that what u wanted?
<dmbaturin> That's pretty much what I want. I don't have to keep all versions of it, I guess, unless they are used by anything they will be GCed?
<cojy> dmbaturin: yea
<mrvn> struk|desk: that isn't universal. you can't pass a "'c. 'c key -> 'a" closure.
<cojy> dmbaturin: if you want to use one to store state, you can either stick it in a ref cell and swap that out with updated versions, or pass it around and update it monadically
<struk|desk> mrvn: got me then!
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<mrvn> struk|desk: This seems to work: http://paste.debian.net/139181/
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<dmbaturin> cojy: Thanks. Going to look into it, and look into Lwt too.
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<Drup> vanila: not afaik, you'll need a Xen server.
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<dmbaturin> There are some providers that use Xen, non of them is free however.
<dmbaturin> Linode uses Xen PV, and it's possible to use pygrub to boot a custom kernel there.
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<struk|desk> is archimedes the best ocaml 2d plotter out there? or should I consider something different/newer ?
<vanila> someone should set up a free xen thing for all the little mirage tests!
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<nicoo> Why does OCaml record in Makefile.config whether X was present at configuration/compilation-time, now that labltk isn't shipped with it anymore?
<nicoo> (I have the issue where the OCaml package is being built on a system without X.org, shipped to several machines, and someone then tries to install labltk there)
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<vbmithr> struk|desk: struktured: use gnuplot.
<vbmithr> I was wondering what to use to plot things using OCaml recently as well
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<vbmithr> I figured out that gnuplot was still the simplest / simply available thing to use.
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<struktured> vbmithr: archimedes isn't that bad actually. I want to plot interactively with utop and stuff too
<adrien> they're quite differently
<adrien> different*
<adrien> gnuplot has more builtins
<adrien> but archimedes is more flexible
<adrien> and uses far less memory
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<struktured> adrien: gnuplot has ocaml bindings already too?
<adrien> I think I've seen some
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<dmbaturin> Gnuplot is cool, but lack of actual programmatic API makes bindings slightly funny.
<dmbaturin> adrien: What is archimedes? Got a link to the project page?
<struktured> dmbaturin: that's my fear. I got archimedes to plot without even looking at the documentation. that says something
<struktured> dmbaturin: although I still haven't gotten legends or titles working yet :|
<dmbaturin> Looks interesting.
<adrien> I need to look again at the lablgtk output
<dmbaturin> I only write gnuplot by hand, if I need to produce plots programmatically I take something with actual API, whatever is available for the language in use. :)
<def`> struktured: I also enjoyed using it, altough there were some rough edges
<def`> I think th e main author would ahappy to receive maintenance help or improvements
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<struk|work> this is one gnuplot binding example: https://bitbucket.org/ogu/gnuplot-ocaml/src/4860b594c8129f6295a4258d1272ee5ed2b60ddc/examples/gnuplot_test.ml?at=master . It definitely looks less ocaml friendly but definitely still usable if you're already comfortable with gnuplot. At that point though I'd almost consider using ocaml-r if I'm going non-native anyhow
<struk|work> in archimedes, you could plot sin x directly with the type system type checking i t
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<vbmithr> The other option is to js_of_ocaml an existing js framework for plotting, but good luck with that too
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<Drup> I have on my todo list to bind http://metricsgraphicsjs.org/. It seems rather simple and not too crazy to type statically.
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<struk|work> vbmithr: hmm think I like ocaml native approaches..are you using an ocaml gnuplot binding or just piping the data to gnuplot manually?
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<vbmithr> feeding gnuplot manually
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<vbmithr> It was not very nice but the capabilities of gnuplot were much higher than archimedes for example.
<vbmithr> I think the easiest way is to try to find a nice js plotter and bind that to OCaml via js_of_ocaml
<vbmithr> To have a native feeling
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<struk|work> my js is weak, but I do see your point
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<nicoo> Drup: “not too crazy to type statically” is relative, when it comes from one of the TyXML people :þ
<Drup> Bah.
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<Drup> I can't see any dynamic typing magic in it
<Drup> (as opposed to, let's say, D3 ...)
<struk|work> Drup: Possible values: {line, histogram, point, missing-data}
<Drup> struk|work: that's a sum type in disguise
<struk|work> Drup: yeah kinda figured that's how you'd do it in ocaml
<Drup> No, I mean, it's the *string* "line" or the string "histogram" or ...
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<Drup> (when it's a datatype, it's in italic)
<Drup> so it's not dynamic typing
<struk|work> oh ok got it
<Drup> only poor man's sum type
<struk|work> I thought it was of LINE of Line.t | HISTO of Histo.t | etc...
<Drup> fortunatly, no :)
<Drup> (that would be a case of "easy" dynamic typing, though, somethings are much more annoying ...)
<vbmithr> anybody had problems with UNIX_SOCKETs and Lwt ?
<nicoo> Drup: Stringly typing <3
<Drup> Bah, you can do worse
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<Drup> "do something different if the string parses as a number"
<Drup> that starts being evil.
<pippijn> vbmithr: I've used them without problems (but don't ask me, it's over a year ago)
<pippijn> vbmithr: still, you may want to describe the issues you're having, and someone here might know the answer or have ideas on where to start looking for one
<vbmithr> Basically, flushing.
<vbmithr> I use TCP_NO_DELAY on my TCP sockets
<vbmithr> So the messages are sent directly
<vbmithr> On unix sockets, there is no such options and I thought the behaviour would be equivalent to NO_DELAY
<vbmithr> But no, and even manually flushing does not improve things
<vbmithr> I'm using Lwt_io channels
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<vbmithr> wrong alert, unrelated to unix sockets apparently :)
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<smondet> struk|work: is that still going on? http://www.meetup.com/NYC-OCaml/events/219509042/
<struk|work> smondet: wow that's tommorow eh? I don't even have a room reserved for it unfortunately
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<struk|work> smondet: also its unclear which topics I should cover. containers and errors, I guess?
<smondet> it can be coffee shopped, or we can delay it for when we get organized
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<struk|work> smondet: hmm what do you prefer?
<Drup> smondet: good luck to the one reviewing SPOC :D
<smondet> Drup: :)
<Drup> you have the choice
<Drup> the logic, which is complicated and need good understanding of GPUs
<Drup> the drivers, which are CUDA/OPENCL messes.
<Drup> or the camlp4 syntax extension :D
<Drup> pick your sin :3
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<ggole> mrvn: more context? (Hopefully a minimal compilable example?)
<smondet> struk|work: i'm replaying to Ashish's email (race condition between to communication channels)
<smondet> (s/to/two/
<smondet> )
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<smondet> Drup: the opinionated talk I did about joo+webGL worked pretty well, you don't need to have any kind of sympathy for the chronos-group to talk about their mess :)
<Drup> smondet: oh, it wasn't a criticize
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<Drup> drivers are always a mess, and SPOC is pretty awesome
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<smondet> yes like js_of_ocaml :)
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<Drup> indeed :p
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<struk|work> Drup: I expected SPOC to be a PITA but worth the effort if you need that hardware
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<Drup> I meant from the *review* point of view, not the usage ;)
<Reventlov> Yosh. If you use ocp-indent, what options do you use ? I'm not really happy with the default indentation mode, so, i'm searching for sets of options that could help.
<mrvn> ggole: reload
<Drup> usage is quite smooth
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<ggole> mrvn: got it, thanks
<smondet> Reventlov: I use `strict_with=always,with=0,strict_comments=false`
<ggole> Never seen this error message before. :)
<mrvn> ggole: It maks no sense to me that this works for all types but the conv.
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<ggole> Yeah... well, time to add bits and pieces until it compiles.
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<mrvn> ggole: I've tried and tried.
<ggole> and type ('a, 'b) conv := ('a, 'b) T.conv for the second last line type checks
<ggole> ...but why?
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<mrvn> ggole: That would be an identity mapping
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<Drup> I think I understand.
<Drup> yes.
<Drup> So
<Drup> replace the définition of lexeme_conv by "type ('a, 'b) lexeme_conv = ('a, 'b) T.conv ={ key : 'c . 'c T.key -> 'a; value : 'c . 'c T.value -> 'b; }"
<Drup> the reason is that lexeme_conv is currently an alias, and not a definition
<Drup> those are treated separately by the typechecker, in quite different ways.
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<Drup> ppx_import.
<Drup> (or stop renaming types :p)
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<ggole> I hope whatever you are doing is worth it...
<mrvn> Drup: me too
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<mrvn> Drup: It's a type safe SLR(k) parser generator
<mrvn> and typesafe lexer
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<mrvn> I only need one more function. let rule_apply (rule : rule) (items : stack_item list) = Obj.magic 0
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<mrvn> All this boxing and unboxing with GADTs is hard.
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<mrvn> hmm, haven't had that is some time. The parser compiles but doesn't work after I added type safety.
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<mrvn> if you are fancy the idle thread will power down stuff, reduce the frequency, go into deeper sleep states and so on
<mrvn> ups
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