ChanServ changed the topic of #ocaml to: Discussions about the OCaml programming language | http://www.ocaml.org | OCaml 4.02.1 announcement at http://ocaml.org/releases/4.02.html | Public channel logs at http://irclog.whitequark.org/ocaml
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<struktured> sigh ocaml-bitstamp-api is one of the best working clients, and bitstamp has to go and get hacked. jerks
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<t4nk035> Hi all. I've copied a small snippet directly from Real World OCaml into utop and I get this error: http://pastebin.com/dvsig6yh
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<t4nk035> It works if I use a positional argument for ~f rather than the named argument
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<Tekk_> ls
<Tekk_> whoops
<Tekk_> anyway
<Tekk_> anyone know if there's any way to set the arguments to give to ocamldebug when using it from emacs?
<dmbaturin> t4nk035: Make sure that Core doesn't redefine List.iter
<Tekk_> trying to pass it on the "which debugger do you want to use?" prompt just confuses it
<dmbaturin> The one from pervasives is ('a -> unit) -> 'a list -> unit
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<Tekk_> figured out my problem. Related though, does anyone know of a program to generate ctypes struct definitions from a header file?
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<ddosia> Hi there. Reading RWO right now and stumble upon example of using of Core_bench. "open Core_bench.Std" they said. -> Error: Unbound module Core_bench.
<ddosia> Although I can find it under my ~/.opam/4.02.1/lib/core_bench directory
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<ddosia> Doh, just added -pkgs core_bench to corebuild and this done the trick
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<ddosia> is there any sequence generator facilities? I mean I need something like list with natural numbers up to certain border.
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<dmbaturin> Batteries used to have list comprehensions.
<Drup> ddosia: Sequence.( 1 -- 5 )
<Drup> :D
<ddosia> afaik list comprehensions use already created lists and works like filter+map
<Drup> (or Gen)
<ddosia> Drup: Error: Unbound value --
<ddosia> but I got it, will read about this module
<Drup> ah, that's because you are using Core's Sequence
<Drup> I'm talking about the package "sequence"
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<Drup> (can't help you with Core, I don't use it)
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<ddosia> btw, could you criticize my code which factorize any number? it works really long and I am searching a way to improve speed. https://gist.github.com/ddosia/ed5da98f1a70e094515c
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<dario_> Hallo everyone!
<dario_> (Hopefully) Quick question:
<dario_> Is someone using 4.02's module aliases in a project managed with Oasis?
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<Drup> hum, syndic do it
<Drup> (hi dario_ :p)
<dario_> Hi Drup!
<dario_> Do you have a link?
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<dario_> Thanks! I asked about this a few weeks ago at the caml-list, but got no replies...
<Drup> ah, just saw it
<dario_> ...and would very much like to streamline Lambdoc's module arrangement...
<Drup> yeah, that would be good.
<Drup> I don't have any answer to your question, sorry
<dario_> I'll check syndic's source...
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<dario_> Funny, there's no myocamlbuild.ml in Syndic's source...
<dario_> ...but the rest seems fairly mundane.
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<Drup> dario_: that's normal, they use the dynamic setup.
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<dario_> Okay, I noticed one difference:
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<dario_> In the Syndic lib itself, there seem to be no instances of "open Syndic"...
<dario_> ...instead, module aliases are redeclared at the top of each module that uses them...
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<dario_> ...Ex: syndic_rss1.ml, which declares "module XML = Syndic_xml"
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<dario_> Unfortunately, using "open" results in ocamlbuild failing with a circular build error...
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<dario_> Which is why I wonder whether the toolchain (namely ocamlbuild and ocamldep) deals properly with module aliases
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<Drup> oh, I can answer that. I know that ocamldep don't.
<dario_> Ah... mystery solved!
<Drup> doesn't*
<Drup> but it doesn't give a solution
<dario_> One might be able to postprocess (sed) ocamldep's output...
<dario_> ...I'll have to try...
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<dario_> ...Because it would be really useful to use module aliases from within the library itself.
<Drup> especially for you, yes
<dario_> Btw, it seems Syndic only exports the module aliases, but does not use -no-alias-deps
<Drup> yes
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<dario_> Yeah, though in Lambdoc's case, the modules are already arranged to minimise linking unnecessary crap.
<dario_> For instance: if you don't use the XML parser, the compiler shouldn't link it in.
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<Drup> and it makes the code excessively annoying to navigate because you have huge crazy prefix everywhere, yes.
<dario_> Though if you use only a single module from Lambdoc_core, all of them will be linked in... :-(
<Drup> I know, I read it. :D
<dario_> I'm finishing a new Lambxml parser based on Xmlm...
<dario_> ...though there's still an issue related to entities:
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<whitequark> Lambxml?
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<dario_> Okay, there's one possible straightforward workaround for the Ocamldep bug...
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<dario_> ...Telling Ocamlbuild that the dependencies of a given file (lambdoc.ml) should not be computed via Ocamldep...
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<dario_> ...but are instead manually set (to zero).
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<dario_> I'll ask on the caml-list about this.
<dario_> Perhaps someone has a cleaner solution.
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<Drup> dario_: I think there was another thread on the mailing list about this
<dario_> Drup: I've googled before asking, but did not find anything...
<dario_> ...but now that I know the root of the problem, I might be able to find it.
<mrvn> you've found money?
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<ingsoc> ocaml is categorised as a functional language but it has OOP features. Were these added later ? How often are they used in a typical ocaml code base ?
<ingsoc> also, what is the status of multicore ocaml ?
<bjorkintosh> ingsoc, first came ML
<bjorkintosh> then CAML
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<bjorkintosh> then ...
<bjorkintosh> the rest is left as an exercise for the reader.
<mrvn> So we should have MOCaml now that modules are first class
<bjorkintosh> modules were already part of ML.
<Drup> but not first class :p
<Drup> ingsoc: OOP features are not used a lot
<ingsoc> ok well i may have to have a look at the ancestry
<bjorkintosh> they're there, just in case you go on a camping trip and might need it.
<bjorkintosh> you know?
<Drup> ocasionally, when they are appropriate and that the functional way is not better. So that's not very often.
<mrvn> and for some things you need them
<mrvn> Drup: objects can be functional
<mrvn> you need objects for row types
<ingsoc> and what about mult-icore ?
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<ingsoc> multi-core*
<Drup> I would still not describe that as "the functional way" :D
<mrvn> ingsoc: nothing in standard ocaml
<Drup> ingsoc: work in progress.
<mrvn> Drup: in the end object is just a container. How you use it is up to you
<ingsoc> ok. seems a bit like state of python
<ingsoc> obviously ocaml runs sequential code much faster though
<mrvn> ingsoc: you can always offload some stuff to C or do multi-processing
<mrvn> ingsoc: Even if ocaml gets a multicore GC I don't think it will ever excell at it. Other type systems allow better code for multithreaded things, esspecially tracking how shared data is.
<mrvn> rust could be good there
<ingsoc> mrvn: yeah looked at rust briefly but it seems to be in flux
<ingsoc> still a moving target
<ingsoc> haskell seems too academic
<mrvn> it's verry strict
<mrvn> idealistically so
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<whitequark> ingsoc: rust 1.0 is released this friday
<whitequark> after this, the language will be backward-compatible
<whitequark> wow
<ingsoc> whitequark: you been playing with rust ?
<whitequark> yes
<ingsoc> seems to be a mixing pot of many language features
<ingsoc> whitequark: how have you been finding it ?
<ingsoc> good points/ bad poitns ?
<ingsoc> points*
<smondet> just being rigourous: you can do a lot of cool multi-core stuff in ocaml, what you don't have is shared-memory parallelism
<whitequark> ingsoc: the only systems language that stands a chance to dent C/C++
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<tobiasBora> Hello !
<tobiasBora> Does anyone knows a library that can manipulate Djvu files ?
<ingsoc> whitequark: are you saying that it is targetted at different problem domain to something like ocaml ?
<whitequark> ingsoc: yes
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<whitequark> rust places heavy emphasis on memory management
<Hannibal_Smith> whitequark, agree seems like that finally we can have a modern C
<ingsoc> well not having a repl is a pain when you're used to having one
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<ingsoc> but this is no criticism of the language tho
<Hannibal_Smith> OCaml is easier to write, at least IMHO
<ingsoc> so does memory management fall on the programmer ?
<ingsoc> (in rust)
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<Hannibal_Smith> ingsoc, is not like C, the compiler know where free stuff automatically
<Hannibal_Smith> But telling the compiler "this object depend on..."
<Hannibal_Smith> Is not always trivial
<mrvn> How does that work with passing objects to functions? How rust know wether the functions keeps a reference to the object in some global table or not?
<mrvn> The short into to rust didn't give any example for that
<mrvn> +i read
<Hannibal_Smith> mrvn, it will simply pass the ownership of things
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<Hannibal_Smith> Similar to C++11 move semantics
<mrvn> Hannibal_Smith: It passes the ownership to the function when you call it. But from [&foo] -> unit how does it know wether the function keeps it?
<whitequark> mrvn: regions
<whitequark> if it's &foo, the function can't keep it
<whitequark> (after it finished executing)
<whitequark> in other words, rust encodes nested lifetimes in the type system
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<mrvn> ahh, so when it keeps it how does the signature look?
<whitequark> foo (copy) or ~foo (owned, unique)
<whitequark> er, Box<foo> it is now
<whitequark> or Rc<foo> for refcounting, or Gc<foo> for some hypothetical GC
<mrvn> I've seen Rc in the tutorial. They didn't mention Gc.
<Hannibal_Smith> They dropped it
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<mrvn> The tutorial said you need Rc for recursive types but I'm not sure how Rc is supposed to work with cyclic types, like a graph. The cycle will always keep itself alive.
<mrvn> Seems hard to free that without a GC
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<Hannibal_Smith> mrvn, they have Weak that broke dependency
<Hannibal_Smith> Not unlike C++11 again
<mrvn> But weak means only one direction keeps the graph alive. Means you need a overall structure that keeps an array of all nodes.
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<mrvn> And if you have that outer structure then it would be cool if you could tell the compiler that the nodes have the same lifetime as the outer structure.
<Hannibal_Smith> mrvn, search for lifetime annotation
<Hannibal_Smith> Unfortunately at least for me is a topic that continue to be unclear
<Hannibal_Smith> So I cannot say more that read their documentation on the argument
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