ChanServ changed the topic of #ocaml to: Discussions about the OCaml programming language | http://www.ocaml.org | OCaml 4.02.1 announcement at http://ocaml.org/releases/4.02.html | Public channel logs at http://irclog.whitequark.org/ocaml
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<bobfang> Hi
<bobfang> Can somebody enlighten me why this function is rejected by the type checker?
<bobfang> let rejected f = (f 1, f "hi");;
<rom1504> bobfang: because f can't take int and string
<bobfang> But f can be polymorphic right?
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<rom1504> hmm
<def`> f is not generalized at that point
<def`> within rejected, f is monomorphic.
<bobfang> So why Ocaml choose to do that?
<def`> because otherwise inference would be undecidable
<def`> this require higher-rank polymorphism
<rom1504> interesting
<def`> (well, for rank-2 it is decidable)
<def`> you can encode it manually with object
<def`> (or records)
<def`> let rejected (f: <f: 'a. 'a -> 'a>) = (f#f 1, f#f "hi")
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<def`> (and the verbosity of this encoding is just a matter of the implementation)
<def`> (if it was possible to write quantifier directly in arrows, one could write
<def`> let rejected (f : 'a . 'a -> 'a) = (f 1, f "hi")
<def`> it is just not implemented
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<def`> MercurialAlchemi: any specific merlin bug in mind?
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<nullcat_> I am trying this tutorial. http://amirchaudhry.com/from-jekyll-to-unikernel-in-fifty-lines/ But when i want to set up tap device by doing "sudo ifconfig tap0 10.0.0.1 255.255.255.0". I am warned with "ifconfig: interface tap0 does not exist". I installed tuntap on my OS X and I can see tap devices in my /dev
<nullcat_> anyone can offer some help?
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<MercurialAlchemi> def`: I was thinking of this - https://github.com/the-lambda-church/merlin/issues/347
<MercurialAlchemi> especially the bit where it managed to change the entire file
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<ollehar> anyone want to continue the discussion about "simple" vs "complex" programming languages? especially, why would people choose manual memory management and void pointers over immutability by default and first-class modules? is this also a fight between industry and academy?
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<ollehar> Guess not :P
<MercurialAlchemi> ollehar: C vs modern languages?
<MercurialAlchemi> sometimes you don't want a garbage collector
<ollehar> MercurialAlchemi: We were talking about perceived "simple" languages
<ollehar> like C and PHP
<ollehar> good point
<MercurialAlchemi> also, widespread support and a large amount of libraries
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<MercurialAlchemi> PHP has a low barrier to entry as well, it just takes some experience to realize that a language that tries to guess what you are doing is a really terrible idea
<MercurialAlchemi> or a larger codebase
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<ollehar> but ocaml has a low barrier, too?
<Drup> depends
<Drup> if it's your first language, yes
<ollehar> you don't have to use all fancy-pancy stuff to make a real program.
<Drup> if imperative and OOP is hardwire in your brain by years of practice
<Drup> then no
<Drup> (but I can confirm than OCaml as first language is not very hard, yes, especially with all the teaching materials we have now)
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<dmbaturin> Drup: You taught ocaml as a first language?
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<dmbaturin> ollehar: Part of the problem is that instead of teaching programming many introductory books/tutorials/courses/etc. teach a language or domain knowledge.
<ollehar> dmbaturin: yeah
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<Drup> dmbaturin: I learned ocaml as a first language, and see other people learn it
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<dmbaturin> Drup: Your introductory programming course used it?
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<_andre> does anyone know how to solve this? [WARNING] There is a consistency problem with the currently installed packages: - No package matches lwt.
<_andre> opam list shows lwt 2.4.7 installed
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<_andre> hmm removing lwt and installing again gets me 2.4.5
<_andre> is 2.4.7 not supposed to work with ocaml 4.02.1?
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<ggole> opam seems to like 2.4.6 here
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<_andre> it's weird, 'opam show' has version: 2.4.7 yet 'opam install' gets 2.4.5
<_andre> i removed all my packages, so it's not some dependency forcing it to get 2.4.5
<rks`> opam pin list ?
<_andre> empty
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<_andre> removed .opam, ran opam init again and now it shows 2.4.7
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<companion_cube> anyone has ever used internal libraries with ocamlbuild?
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<companion_cube> I'm surprised I need to write a myocamlbuild.ml just to use a library
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<thizanne> you must write it just to use ocamlfind, so why not
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<companion_cube> no, -use-ocamlfind is enough
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<Guest97535> hi, how can install an older version of a package using opam?
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<MercurialAlchemi> Guest97535: opam install package=version should work, I think
<Guest97535> thanks
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<Drup> dmbaturin: yes
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<bobfang> hi
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<bobfang> from what I know that Ocaml will infer covariant and contravaraint right? Is there a way to display these information out?
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<companion_cube> in general you can export this information in .mli: type +'a t
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<companion_cube> and the compiler will complain if it disagrees
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<Drup> bobfang: it's infered only if the type is exposed
<Drup> if the type is opaque, the compiler can't infer it, so you have to put in the .mli explicitely
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<Algebr> Does The ordering of open directives matter?
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<Drup> in case of shadowing, yes
<Drup> (there is a compiler warning for that)
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<Algebr> doing open twice isn't bad, correct?
<Drup> you mean, opening twice the same module ?
<Algebr> yes
<Drup> it's not "bad" but it's completely useless and very bad style
<Drup> doing global opens is often considered not very good style to begin with
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<Algebr> I see, I'm just temporarily doing it because I think the syntax extensions in ocsigen are confusing merlin
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<Drup> there is a special thingy for js_of_ocaml's syntax extension
<Drup> (no hope for eliom yet, though)
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<rgrinberg> Drup: what's the progress on shedding p4 for js_of_ocaml?
<rgrinberg> the ## thing is the blocker right?
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<Drup> rgrinberg: next ocaml version
<Drup> (probably 4.02.2)
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<Algebr> What's the correct invocation of ocamlfind to give me back the path of where a module is?
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<adrien> Algebr: -query
<Algebr> Is an ocaml package just a whole bunch of modules, its not a special object in itself correct?
<Drup> in first aproximation, yes.
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<whitequark> a package is first and foremost a META file
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<labichn> Hey all, I can't print backtraces in a findlib package I've installed locally: (Program not linked with -g, cannot print stack backtrace), and I've spent days trying to do so.
<labichn> The flag -g can go into a myriad of places, and I've tried it everywhere: compiling/linking the library (both ocamlbuild's -cflag and -lflag, as well as in _tags file), in the library's META linkopts, compiling/linking the client code. I'm sure I'm missing something obvious--it cannot be this hard to see a backtrace.
<labichn> Does that error (Program not linked with -g, cannot print stack backtrace) identify which part of the build/install process is missing debugging information to anyone more in the know than I?
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<whitequark> try rebuilding the library and the program with OCAMLPARAM=_,g=1
<whitequark> this should be completely bulletproof
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<labichn> whitequark: Did that this morning, no luck
<labichn> I even wiped out my entire OPAM and rebuild everything with OCAMLPARAM=_,g=1
<whitequark> that is extremely weird
<labichn> (tried with p=1 as well, but couldn't get the compiler built with that)
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<whitequark> yeah you shouldn't build compiler with OCAMLPARAM
<whitequark> is it 4.02.1?
<labichn> Looks like I'm still running 4.02.0, I'll bump it up
<labichn> Waiting on core's build...
<Algebr> Can I use ocamlfind to give me the location of a specific module?
<adrien> Algebr: as I said: -query
<Algebr> oh, I thought that was just for packages
<whitequark> that is just for packages
<adrien> yes, indeed, sorry
<adrien> but, also, why do you want that?
<Algebr> Maybe to like see the ml? but I guess opam doesn't keep source
<whitequark> it's not about opam
<Drup> opam can keep sources if you ask it
<whitequark> if the package wants to install source, it will be present
<Drup> (see the man page)
<Algebr> Drup: for ocp-browser, any idea what is Alt-h on OS X, macbook keyboard?
<companion_cube> no news on the assemblage front?
<labichn> Agh, ppx_deriving's giving me Unrecognized [@@deriving] option syntax, looking into it
<Drup> Algebr: None whatsoever
<Drup> you don't have an equivalent of Alt ?
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<rkowalick> OSX definitely has an alt key
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<labichn> whitequark: I'm glad you dropped the uppercase from the deriving names in 4.02.1, it looks much nicer. I did the same with 4.02.1 (rebuilt packages with OCAMLPARAM=_,g=1) and it worked perfectly, must have missed something when I did it this morning for 4.02.0. Thanks for the help!
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<Algebr> rkowalick: yea, it says alt and I've tried a few key combos and none worked so far.
<rkowalick> Are you using terminal.app or iterm?
<Algebr> terminal.app
<rkowalick> terminal.app might not be sending alt-h to the terminal
<bernardofpc> does anyone know of a hack to disable camlp4 inside lwt ?
<Drup> bernardofpc: use last verison, lwt is optional
<Drup> camlp4*
<bernardofpc> (trying to install utop from opam, it requires camlp4)
<Drup> =')
<bernardofpc> Drup: yeah
<bernardofpc> 2.4.7 ?
<Drup> yes
<bernardofpc> how can I tell it not to use cmalp4 if camlp4 is already installed for some reason ?
<Drup> remove camlp4
<bernardofpc> (say, another package) ?
<Drup> if it's installed, opam will use it, and I don't see why you would prevent that
<Algebr> Drup: yay, that github issue had the answer
<bernardofpc> because lwt cannot compile with my camlp4+system
<bernardofpc> well, gotta go
<bernardofpc> this is very awkward
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<bernardofpc> Drup: yeah, somehow camlp4 is "required" by lablgtk and utop
<bernardofpc> and, while lablgtk compiles perfectly well, lwt does not
<bernardofpc> so I'd *really* like to disable camlp4 compilation for lwt
<bernardofpc> I hope utop's compilation works with camlp4+system
<Drup> as I said, remove camlp4.
<bernardofpc> I did remove
<whitequark> bernardofpc: utop does not require camlp4 as of 1.17
<whitequark> it's a depopt
<Drup> (or use a non system switch)
<bernardofpc> but installing utop forces camlp4
<bernardofpc> utop-1.17
<whitequark> do you have aspcud?
<bernardofpc> cloud solver, yeah
<bernardofpc> oh, strange
<bernardofpc> just installing utop but having removed lablgtk, it works
<bernardofpc> remains to test for when unison comes back...
<bernardofpc> nope
<bernardofpc> it will resinstall everything :/
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