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<Algebr>
I'm having an annoying time getting ocaml stuff up and running on archlinux. trying to install core via opam but I get the error that camlp4orf is not found. installing camlp4 via pacman or opam doesn't fix it either
<Algebr>
Now I just did opam switch 4.02.1, fwiw.
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<Algebr>
hmm, that seems to have fixed it, I guess incompatibilties between campl and the compiler on the machine via pacman
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<thorsten`>
when defining a type, is "type t = { mutable x : int }" just a shorthand for "type t = { x : int ref }"?
<dmbaturin>
thorsten`: Not really.
<thorsten`>
where's the difference? (I mean beside the syntax of accessing and writing it...)
<thorsten`>
s/of/for/
<dmbaturin>
Ah, you mean internally. Hhm, not sure.
<thorsten`>
basically for performance
<thorsten`>
I'm continuing some other's project and don't want it to become slower when switching from ref to mutable
<dmbaturin>
The project uses refs in records?
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<thorsten`>
No they are global values g1,...,g2. and I want to put them into one record which I pass around all the time
<thorsten`>
Something like: type handle = { mutable g1 : bla list, ... , mutable gn : blub list }
<dmbaturin>
Maybe make a microbenchmark, like for 10k ref and record updates. :)
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<Drup>
thorsten`: it's the other way around
<Drup>
ref is defined as "type 'a ref = { mutable content : 'a }"
<flux>
well, mutable can still be faster, because of less indirection
<flux>
but as always, benchmark and profile :_)
<dmbaturin>
Drup: So the toplevel displaying inferred type of a ref as "something ref = {contents = something}" identical to records is not a coincedence?
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<Drup>
no
<Drup>
look in pervasive's documentation
<flux>
also you can use that for pattern matching
<flux>
match foo with { contents = "hello" } -> ..
<flux>
..of for constructing values if you feel that way
<flux>
s/of/or/
<flux>
so it's just a library feature :-)
<thorsten`>
dmbaturin: are those really comparable? I mean recupd is totally different because '1 to ...' might construct a huge array/list/traversablething
<flux>
thorsten`, well, it doesn't
<flux>
but yeah, using the same iteration construct for both might've been better :)
<flux>
also that's compating byte code, not native
<flux>
(comparing.) so if one is after performance, one should compare the ocamlopt versions instead.
<dmbaturin>
flux: I used bytecode to slow it down. As of the iteration, that's a good point though.
<flux>
it's not just about performance, there are some functional differences as well. for example, when you make a copy of a record with mutable fields with { x with .. } the fields are actually copied, but in the 'ref' case the copied fields end up referring to the same element, so the records seem more shared
<flux>
also you cannot make a function that gets access to a mutable field, but with refs you can just pass the ref to a function and it works
<flux>
I mean gets access in the sense that it can reassign it etc
<flux>
so it's about the amount indirection you need :)
<dmbaturin>
With while loop in both tests it's like 1.292s vs 1.390s for bytecode and 0.111s vs 0.116s for native.
<Drup>
dmbaturin: so basically exactly the same :p
<dmbaturin>
In any case, no radical difference between the two. :)
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<flux>
but if you put multiple fields in and modify only one..
<flux>
though I suppose no difference :)
<flux>
but there could be some gc-related things.
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<stygianguest>
anyone have some experience with monads in ocaml?
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<companion_cube>
well, a bit, what's bothering you?
<dsheets_>
they taste nothing like burritos. all lies.
<stygianguest>
the performance
<stygianguest>
they simply are slower than the more or less equivalent implementation using higher order functions only
<Drup>
monads is a formalism/pattern, it doesn't tell you anything about performances
<stygianguest>
true
<stygianguest>
i'm talking about a state monad
<Drup>
ah, state monad, that's more specific
<ggole>
More layers = slower, usually
<Drup>
it's rather a question of passing along an immutable state vs. using a mutable state
<stygianguest>
indeed
<Drup>
not much to do with monads
<stygianguest>
except that the state i'm passing around is a builder
<Drup>
then the answer is .... it depends a lot.
<stygianguest>
my question would be mostly, .. i have a state monad that is implemented rather naively
<stygianguest>
is there a smarter/faster way to do it
<stygianguest>
i.e. i have
<stygianguest>
type 'a m = S.t -> 'a * S.t
<stygianguest>
where m is the monad
<stygianguest>
let (>>=) m f = fun s -> let a, s = m s in f a s
<stygianguest>
for bind
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<stygianguest>
and then the various put/get and return statements
<stygianguest>
.. functions
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<stygianguest>
i kinda would expect ocaml to inline the bind (>>=)functions
<stygianguest>
if that's true i would think that the monadic version should have about the same performance as the direct implementation
<Drup>
the current ocaml will not inline
<stygianguest>
hm ok .. that explains some of it then ..
<stygianguest>
i can try flambda.. seems easy enough with opam
<stygianguest>
while wating for flambda to install. is there perhaps another way for me to find out what's going on? for example, i'd be very interested to see the size of the generated closures
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<ggole>
Look at the generated cmm, or assembly if you are familiar enough with that level
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<stygianguest>
flambda gives quite an improvement
<stygianguest>
but it does so for any program, and thus the performance difference between with and without lambdas is unfortunately preserved
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<stygianguest>
i will have another look at the ocaml bytecode..
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<Drup>
stygianguest: 1) add -inline
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<Drup>
2) bytecode is not optimized
<Drup>
at all
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<ingsoc>
i was reading it is wise to set warnings on when compiling. I am using ocamlbuild, how is this done ?
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<acieroid>
ingsoc: -cflags "-w A"
<acieroid>
(look at ocamlc's man to know more about -w)
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<Drup>
not cflag
<Drup>
cflags if or passing warnings to the C compiler
<Drup>
ingsoc: by memory, add a tag like "w(4)"
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<rks`>
Drup: I think you're wrong
<rks`>
cflags means "compile flags" unless I'm mistaken
<rks`>
at some point you had to use "-cflags -bin-annot" for example
<rks`>
(of course using tags for this is probably better)
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<Drup>
ah, right, I'm always confused about it because of oasis ~~
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<ingsoc>
I think i got disconnected and didn't see the answers (if any) ?
<ingsoc>
i guess you can pass..
<ingsoc>
-cflags -w,a to ocamlbuild
<ingsoc>
or place...
<ingsoc>
true: warn_a in _tags ?
<Drup>
yes
<ingsoc>
so "a" and "A" are equivalent
<ingsoc>
?
<ingsoc>
btw, what is the significance that this aids with debugging ?, are there certain things that are masked by not having this enabled (I just read it was useful but the author didn;t elaborate as to why)
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<Drup>
I would not enable *all* warnings
<Drup>
some of them are really benign
<ingsoc>
do i even need to set it really ?, if so, what would you recommend I should put in _tags or pass to ocamlbuild
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<ingsoc>
which options shoul di enable
<ingsoc>
should I*
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<Drup>
look at the list of warnings and enables the one you like. It depends of your codding style
<acieroid>
Drup: I'd say enable all the warning and disable the ones that bother you, one by one when you encounter them
<Drup>
yeah, that's the other way
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<ingsoc>
Under the section "Handy operators" he shows what the definition of the pipe operator would be...
<ingsoc>
shouldn't his be...
<ingsoc>
let (|>) x fn = fn x
<rks`>
:)
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<ingsoc>
makes an in fix operator and first arg is the left hand side then second the right ?
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<rks`>
yes ingsoc
<octachron>
The two definitions are equivalent. "x" is just an unusal name for a function
<ggole>
Those are alpha equivalent
<ggole>
But yes, the naming of the second is better
<ingsoc>
yeah i get it
<ingsoc>
it is unfortunate naming that could lead to confusion thats all
<ingsoc>
btw if you are piping to a second function that already has an argument then that function is partially applied (curried) and then that partial fucntion is returned and then applied with the remaining(last) argument "piped" in. I have not really done anything witha language with this built in although I had heard the term curry function before
<ingsoc>
fundamentally why is ocaml built this way ? where you can get a partially applied function by simply returning it without all the arguments satisfied
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<flux>
ingsoc, it's a simple concept from the ML family of language: all functions accept exactly one parameter
<flux>
ingsoc, it follows from that
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<flux>
so when you write: let sum3 a b c = a + b + c, it's syntax candy for: let sum3 = fun a -> fun b -> fun c -> a + b + c
<flux>
therefore, when you type sum3 3, a fun b -> fun c -> 3 + b + c has been returned
<flux>
function call (applying an argument) can be parenthesized as thus: (((sum 1) 2) 3)
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<flux>
as far as I know, the same idea works in SML as well, but more often they choose to pass a single tuple as the argument instead
<ingsoc>
so in this example...let sum3 = fun a -> fun b -> fun c -> a + b + c
<ingsoc>
so
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<ingsoc>
the fun accepting c has access to a and b, is this becasue of scoping via closures ?
<ingsoc>
or am i missing the point
<flux>
you are completely correct
<Leonidas>
def`: thanks for fixing the ENV redefinition thing!
<ingsoc>
flux: ^
<flux>
exactly like let a = 42 in (fun () -> a) () has value 42
<ingsoc>
flux: thankyou
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<Algebr>
How do I check the type of an operator in utop? was it like ( |> )?
<flux>
sure, that works
<Algebr>
hmm, not working, its wanting arguments
<flux>
;;
<Algebr>
also, I forgot, what is ocaml's version of apply? or haskell's $?
<Algebr>
hmm, I did ( |> ) ;; and still error
<flux>
I think it's @@
<flux>
works for me (TM)
<flux>
what kind of error?
<Algebr>
utop[25]> ( |> );;
<Algebr>
Error: Failure: "|> must be applied to two arguments"
<Algebr>
<flux>
hmm, interesting
<flux>
4.02.0 here
<flux>
I suppose you don't have some syntax extension that could interfere?-o
<Algebr>
The universal toplevel for OCaml, version 1.17, compiled for OCaml version 4.02.1
<Algebr>
<Algebr>
oh well, not a big deal.
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<flux>
"It is likely that in the Core/utop environment, e1 |> e2 is defined with a syntax rule to be transformed immediately as e2 e1. This would explain why (>|) ;; is a syntax error" sez stackoverflow for that error
<Algebr>
ah
<flux>
..on performance grounds. but I think those points are irrelevant for modern ocaml.
<rks`>
|> works for me in utop, but indeed if you use core
<rks`>
|> is actually a syntax extension
<rks`>
(as flux said)
<rks`>
flux: not just that
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<rks`>
in "x |> f" if [f] accepts some optional parameters
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<rks`>
it will type if you rewrite it to "f x" (thankfully)
<rks`>
but it won't otherwise
<rks`>
because (|>) expects a function of type 'a -> 'b
<rks`>
but you're giving it "?some_label:'a -> 'b -> 'c"
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<Algebr>
for merlin on emacs, is there some setq for having it always display in the minibuffer the type of the last expression from point?
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<flux>
maybe not, but I guess it wouldn't be super difficult to add. it would probably need to go into its own buffer - or status line - to prevent hiding other messages
<flux>
nice idea anyway, I wonder how it would be to use in practice :)
<companion_cube>
x |> f ?some_label:None
<flux>
companion_cube, I would expect that to work. but how about (x |> f) ?some_label:None () ?
<Algebr>
flux: I have that in c coding via semantic, its pretty useful, I might take it up.
<rks`>
if you don't want to pass the label, you can't
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<rks`>
and that's annoying
<rks`>
(it's a minor problem, for sure)
<rks`>
(but annoying nontheless)
<rks`>
(you can also do x |> (fun x -> f x) if you have a lot of optionnal parameters)
<struk|work>
companion_cube: cool, good to know. thanks
<companion_cube>
rks`: yes, sure
<companion_cube>
that's why I wrote x |> f ?some_label:None
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<rks`>
yes yes
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<Algebr>
how can the ./foo.byte run like it does, presumably the magic numbers say use the ocaml vm?
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<vanila>
i think it contains interpreter & bytecode
<Drup>
usual shellbang
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<Drup>
Algebr: do "head foo.byte"
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<Algebr>
ah, of course.
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<ia0>
how do you dump the output of a command to a string in ocaml?
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<ia0>
(using Unix.open_process_in and stuff)
<ia0>
said otherwise, from an in_channel (which is not a file), how to you get a string?
<ia0>
in_channel_length doesn't work
<mrvn>
Check Pervasives for the IO functions on channels
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<ia0>
already checked
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<ia0>
I don't see how to avoid a loop
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<mrvn>
doubtfull you can
<mrvn>
read blocks and put them in a list. And at the end reverse and join.
<ia0>
or I could use a Buffer.t maybe
<ia0>
let's do that, thanks
<mrvn>
Which reminds me again that I hate that there is not read function that creates a string for you.
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<def`>
Leonidas: you're welcome :)
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<dario>
Hallo everyone!
<dario>
I have an OCamlbuild question:
<dario>
How do I find out the current set of dependencies for a module from within a plugin?
<dario>
I can use non_dependency to remove a dependency, for instance...
<dario>
...but how do I go about discovering the present dependencies?
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<dario>
To answer my own question: function Command.deps_of_tags seems to do the trick...
<dario>
...even if the Command module warns that "For system use only, not for the casual user"
<mrvn>
I'm not a casual user. I'm always grimm.
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<Algebr`>
Having a really hard time getting opam install sqlite3 to work. I do have the correct PKG_CONFIG_PATH env variable set. Fwiw, pkg-config --cflags sqlite3 returns nothing
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<Algebr``>
darn, apologies if anyone replied to me, I lost connection.
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<MercurialAlchemi>
that makes all the difference, indeed
<MercurialAlchemi>
thanks
<Drup>
MercurialAlchemi: but really, it's very very annoying, I don't especially advise it
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<MercurialAlchemi>
Drup: what would you suggest to compile bisect only when running reports?
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<Anarchos>
are there multisets in the standard library ?
<Drup>
MercurialAlchemi: how do you use bisect ?
<def`>
implement them as map to integers
<Anarchos>
def` seems reasonable but for insert/delete, i have to rebuild the whole map ?
<rks`>
obviously.
<Anarchos>
that doesn't sound efficient, does it ?
<MercurialAlchemi>
Drup: there is a target which triggers the creation of the report, but my understanding is that the library needs to be preprocessed by bisect using camlp4/ppx for that to be useful (or to work at all)
<MercurialAlchemi>
Drup: but we don't want that to happen in the normal case
<rks`>
Anarchos: you could probably do that in a background job though
<rks`>
obviously it will depend on your use case
<rks`>
but it's not like you have a choice.
<Anarchos>
rks` my use case is an implementation of the martelli-montanari algorithm for unification.
<rks`>
well there you go.
<Anarchos>
ok
<Anarchos>
good night and thanks for the help.
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<rks`>
:)
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<def`>
:D
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<Algebr>
Is it ever the case that opam has something that a OS package manager doesn't have and vice versa? I'm on ArchLinux and getting: dllssl_threads_stubs.so: cannot open shared object file, but I did do opam install ssl, so now I'm seeing an AUR package for ocaml-ssl
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<def`>
Algebr: are you on system switch ?
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<Algebr>
what does that mean
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<Algebr>
opam switch?
<def`>
yes
<Algebr>
I think so
<Algebr>
how can I check?
<def`>
just execute $ opam switch
<Algebr>
system I system System compiler (4.02.1)
<Algebr>
4.02.1 C 4.02.1 Official 4.02.1 release
<Algebr>
-- -- 3.11.2 Official 3.11.2 release
<Algebr>
...
<Algebr>
Does the I mean that that's the one I'm using or is that the C?
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<def`>
I is installed, C is current
<def`>
so, it's fine…
<def`>
Is opam properly sourced in your shell?
<def`>
(for instance, you can check value of $CAML_LD_LIBRARY_PATH )
<Algebr>
yea, that gives me back ~/.opam/4.02.1/lib/stublibs
<def`>
Ok, config seems find. So… I don't know what went wrong :|