ChanServ changed the topic of #ocaml to: Discussions about the OCaml programming language | http://www.ocaml.org | OCaml 4.02.1 announcement at http://ocaml.org/releases/4.02.html | Public channel logs at http://irclog.whitequark.org/ocaml
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<struktured> sdegutis: I feel like if you are studying cross platform guis Qt5 / QtQuick deserves an honorable mention
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<sdegutis> struktured: thanks, noted
<sdegutis> struktured: is it as easy to style as html/css?
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<MooseAndCaml> Hi. I'm constantly using the h :: ((h2 :: _) as t) pattern. Would it be better to use List.map2 foo list (List.tl list) ?
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<struktured> sdegutis: easier than that I'd say, but not as easy as a pure statically typed solution, I guess.
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<Drup> MooseAndCaml: List.map2 only works with list of same size
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<Drup> And that's unlikely between list and List.tl list
<Drup> :)
<MooseAndCaml> yes indeed... I thought about reversing and appending a blank element and rereversing but nah
<whitequark> you could write a function
<whitequark> that encapsulates that pattern.
<MooseAndCaml> should I just look at map in list.ml as the reference?
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<whitequark> you should already have everything you need for the function
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<MooseAndCaml> I guess it would jsut need an extra function parameter for the h :: [] case?
<whitequark> let rec map_cons f = function h :: ((h2 :: _) as l) -> f h h2 :: map_cons f l | [] -> [] | _ :: [] -> invalid_arg "map_cons"
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<MooseAndCaml> thanks that will help me loosen up a bit about making my own map type functions...
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<ggole> Hmm, TIL inheritance can happen dynamically
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<whitequark> functors?
<ggole> Just first-class modules will do it
<ggole> let f (module M : M) = object inherit M.c end
<whitequark> same difference
<sdegutis> im back
<sdegutis> question:
<sdegutis> are there any legitimate times when objects are really beneficial over just using plain functions and data?
<ggole> Well, functions can do arbitrary nonsense to calculate the object
<sdegutis> what i mean is, i have not really found a need for using objects in other functional languages like clojure -- what use are objects and when are they best used in ocaml?
<sdegutis> also: clojure sucks
<whitequark> open recursion
<sdegutis> but thats another note
<sdegutis> whitequark: wat
<whitequark> try using google.
<sdegutis> not loading
<ggole> You can use them to do things like walk an AST without writing all the usual boilerplate
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<sdegutis> oh
<sdegutis> i suddenly feel incredibly stupid
<sdegutis> ive been programming for enough years that i really ought to know by now how using objects would make walking an ast easier than just using functions/data
<sdegutis> yet here we are
<ggole> People tend to avoid the object stuff. It is fairly complicated and not usually necessary.
<sdegutis> ok
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<sdegutis> fwiw i know more ruby than whitequark so for me its not a matter of not knowing how to do it
<sdegutis> or rather, i know ruby better than whitequark does
<sdegutis> its just that i havent paid close enough attention over the years to the trade-offs of using objects over functions/data to be able to recall them at the glance of a phrase
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<whitequark> sdegutis: that's a bold assertion
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<rgrinberg> whitequark: you still hack in ruby?
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<whitequark> rgrinberg: a little. keeping parser alive, mainly
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<Drup> An example of library that uses objects (and for good reasons) : https://github.com/diml/lambda-term
<Drup> Also, you will note that js_of_ocaml uses object *types* (but not the runtime) quite a lot.
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<prsn> hi! I have come across code which uses '@@' to do something that looks like function application. I don't really understand what else it might be doing, or why it's used if it's doing nothing else, but that's not my question - mostly I've just been extremely frustrated with my inability to find the answer on my own.
<prsn> None of the ocaml.org docs or cheat sheets seem to mention it
<prsn> is there a good resource for looking up arbitrary ocaml syntax and being pretty sure to find it?
<dmbaturin> prsn: @@ is like haskell $
<MercurialAlchemi> prsn: you can type '(@@)' in utop, too :)
<prsn> i don't know what utop is, i've been using tuareg's repl
<MercurialAlchemi> prsn: otherwise, no
<prsn> but i'll check it out
<MercurialAlchemi> it's a good repl
<MercurialAlchemi> I don't use tuareg, but I'd imagine typing the same thing would also give you the signature
<dmbaturin> let (@@) f x y = f x y
<prsn> it didn't :/
<MercurialAlchemi> ah, my imagination is sometimes optimistic
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<MercurialAlchemi> "no problem, I'm sure it will be done this afternoon"
<prsn> haha
<dmbaturin> prsn: Well, it works in any REPL. You type a binding name and the REPL tells you its inferred type.
<prsn> oh! it did work. i had taken the ''s literally
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<dmbaturin> prsn: Also, when in doubt, you can browse the standard library source, it's not really scary. https://github.com/ocaml/ocaml/blob/trunk/stdlib/pervasives.ml#L38
<dmbaturin> In this case it refers to an external function though, but you see my point. :)
<prsn> alright. i'm still kinda confused how anyone learns of @@'s existence, since it doesn't seem to be in the reference manual, but maybe it is in some obvious place and it's just the difficulty of googling for symbols that's hiding it
<dmbaturin> ocaml.org maintainers are pretty responsive to pull requests.
<prsn> I'll strongly consider it ;)
<prsn> er, that was intended to be a :)
<prsn> i'm not sure what it being a winky-face implies, but i didn't mean it! :P
<MercurialAlchemi> it also has doc
<MercurialAlchemi> (do note that some useful stuff is in the 'extension' section of the manual, and not where you'd expect it)
<tokenrove> @@ and |> were added not so long ago, like within the last five or six years, right?
<prsn> MercurialAlchemi: ah! Is there a way I could have figured out from the repl what module it was in?
<prsn> There's a long list on the standard library reference page, and no easy way to search for the right one
<MercurialAlchemi> well, if it's accessible without any 'use "XXX"', then it's in pervasives
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<prsn> gotcha
<MercurialAlchemi> all of pervasives is in the default namespace
<prsn> so, is there a style convention for when to use f @@ x and when to use (f x)?
<prsn> In the code I'm reading it's just a simple application of a function to a value on the rhs of a match line
<companion_cube> I'm not sure @@ is used a lot
<companion_cube> |> has more traction :)
<MercurialAlchemi> |> >> @@
<MercurialAlchemi> :D
<prsn> so I guess just a personal aesthetic thing by the author of this code?
<prsn> ok
<rks`> companion_cube: I'm not sure that's true
<dmbaturin> It's is mostly useful in lengthy expressions. Printf.printf "%s" @@ "foo" ^ "bar" ^ "baz"
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<dmbaturin> prsn: Also, for search by type, there's http://ocamloscope.herokuapp.com/
<MercurialAlchemi> I need to find some use for a ^-^ operator
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<companion_cube> rks`: maybe that's my personal experience :?
<companion_cube> :/
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<prsn> well that was exciting. i was about to paste that herokuapp url into my browser, and then my computer restarted itself without warning.
<prsn> ..could you repeat it? :P
<dmbaturin> Your computer may be incompatible with polymorphic type systems. You may need to send it to INRIA for inspection. ;)
<prsn> haha
<prsn> this site looks neat, though most of the 'src' links so far say "<...> does not exist locally"
<dmbaturin> Guess it's worth an email to the maintainers.
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<sdegutis> whitequark: yet true
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<Leonidas> merlin even finds tail calls <3
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<MercurialAlchemi> Leonidas: how can you see that ?
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<MercurialAlchemi> ddolcimascolo: ah, it's the automaton which does that
<MercurialAlchemi> looks like the 'keep' appears after adding the vacation rule
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<Leonidas> MercurialAlchemi: get the type of an expression, if it is tail position it will print something like (* tail position *)
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<MercurialAlchemi> Leonidas: somebody must have sold a soul for that
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<Leonidas> MercurialAlchemi: yup. but it's so neat, it was totally worth it.
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<Drup> MercurialAlchemi: s/somebody/def/
<Drup> and apparently, it was not even that complicated, he did in barely two hours after I asked.
<MercurialAlchemi> that's a short time to draft a contract
<MercurialAlchemi> er, to implement that
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<Jefffrey> I think I've broken Ocaml.
<Jefffrey> *OCaml
<Jefffrey> List.map;;
<Jefffrey> - : 'a Core.Std.List.t -> f:('a -> 'b) -> 'b Core.Std.List.t = <fun>
<Jefffrey> What the heck?
<companion_cube> you're using Core
<Jefffrey> And that's bad?
<companion_cube> no, not necessarily, it's just a different standard library
<Leonidas> no, that's just a different function
<ggole> It shadows the List module
<companion_cube> it replaces List.map with its own implementation
<ggole> (And a bunch of other stuff, too)
<companion_cube> the only meaningful differences are: 1/ tailrec 2/ the label ~f
<Jefffrey> So like, how do I avoid this?
<ggole> Don't open Core
<ggole> It's probably in your .ocamlinit
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<Jefffrey> I have `open Core.Std` in my file, is that it?
<ggole> Yep.
<Jefffrey> Eh, can't remove that.
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<ggole> Oh well.
<Jefffrey> Thanks anyway. Is there a way to avoid the "Warning 6: labels were omitted in the application of this function." warning though?
<Jefffrey> Do I have to call it as `List.map [1; 2] f:(~-)`?
<ggole> You can pass arguments to the compiler to suppress warnings
<ggole> Not the best idea to do that though
<Jefffrey> This assignment has to pass without warnings without modifying the make file or flags, unfortunately.
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<Jefffrey> *makefile
<Drup> then use the label :)
<whitequark> [@@@ocaml.warning "-6"];;
<ggole> Right. If you are going to use Core, it's probably easiest to just use the labels.
<whitequark> I mean, that's cheating, but it works :]
<Jefffrey> How do I use the label?
<Jefffrey> ~f:(~-)?
<ggole> Yep
<Drup> whitequark: if core is loaded, camlp4 is probably too
<whitequark> I think camlp4 actually has [@@@ attributes
<Drup> really ? o_o
<Drup> so, ppx is *partially* implemented in camlp4
<ggole> @@_@@
<whitequark> Drup: yes
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<Drup> waow
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<whitequark> "Camlp4OCamlParserParser"
<whitequark> we need to go deeper
<whitequark> for bonus points it might or might not be compatible with syntax in 4.02.1
<octachron> so a revised syntax for ppx attributes?
<whitequark> no
<whitequark> only in p4o
<Jefffrey> Thank you guys
<Jefffrey> [1; 2] _ [3; 1] = [1; 2; 3; 1], what's the operator for that?
<Jefffrey> ^ for strings, but for lists?
<ggole> @
<ggole> Read the manual
<Jefffrey> Ok, thanks.
<Anarchos> Jefffrey (@)
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<Anarchos> - : 'a list -> 'a list -> 'a list = <fun>
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<Jefffrey> Yup.
<Jefffrey> Thank you everybody.
<Jefffrey> Good night.
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<labichn> Hey all. I'm running OCaml 4.00.1 (not my server, unfortunately) and I'm running into a strange error. Somehow ocamlbuild is generating test.mll and test.mly goals for building test.byte, though there are no .mll or .mly files in the source tree. Is this a known bug, or is there any rational reason these goals should be generated?
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