<affinehat>
what would be the ocaml cannonical way to determine if an integer is odd or even?
<thizanne>
x mod 2 = 0 ?
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<struktured>
affinehat: here's a sillier recursive pattern matching example (only for non-negative x) : let rec even x = match x with 0 -> true | 1 -> false | x -> even (x-2)
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<sdegutis>
In only the senses that OCaml is a statically typed language, can compile down to machine code, has a garbage collector, and does not dynamically dispatch functions, can it be considered similar to Go?
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<dmbaturin>
sdegutis: Similar for what purpose? Convincing someone to give up on Go? :)
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<sdegutis>
dmbaturin: good question
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<struktured>
sdegutis: the object oriented functionality in ocaml is "dynamic dispatching", or do you mean something else?
<sdegutis>
struktured: I had no idea how OCaml's dynamic dispatch works
<sdegutis>
struktured: there's Objective-C style method calls which are dispatched at runtime, and there's Go-style method calls which are turned into pure function calls and have no additional runtime overhead -- which type is OCaml?
<struktured>
sdegutis: disregarding dynamic dispatch, being statically typed, compiling to machine code, and having a GC is hardly a unique trio
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<dmbaturin>
Otherwise there are more differences than similatiries I think.
<sdegutis>
struktured: not even a trio in fact
<dmbaturin>
* similarities
<sdegutis>
dmbaturin: sure
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<struktured>
sdegutis: disregarding as in not considering it in my analysis (as ocaml does have it anyhow)
<sdegutis>
ok
<dmbaturin>
If we are talking flamewar, if Swift is bad ML, Go can be described as bad Ada. :)
<sdegutis>
lol
<sdegutis>
Runtime stuff bothers me so much.
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<sdegutis>
I'd prefer everything to be static if possible.
<dmbaturin>
A strange thing I noticed about myself is that static languages make me think about performance and runtime vs compile time more than dynamic ones.
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<dmbaturin>
Python: "list append is O(n)? Ok". ML: "this uses O(n) list append, OMG, I should use cons instead".
<sdegutis>
dmbaturin: how is that strange?
<sdegutis>
dmbaturin: yeah i notice that in me also
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<dmbaturin>
sdegutis: A possible explanation is that runtime performance penalty of dynamic languages will make your code performance suck at least to some extent no matter what you do.
<sdegutis>
lol
<sdegutis>
yeah
<sdegutis>
we just kind of admit it and stop caring
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<smondet>
Drup: whitequark I'm not talking about a raspberry pi or whatever, I'm taing about a VPS server that I use for www, git, irc, development, testing, etc. everything is fine with 256 MB of RAM (even emacs!!), it would be stupid to pay 4 times more just to be able to compile code that I don't use :)
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<MooseAndCaml>
Does a 'switch' operator make sense when working with pipes? for example: let ($) = (fun x _ -> x) list |> (foo ary) |> (bar ary) |> ($ ary) |> meow
<MooseAndCaml>
do i need these parenthesis? list |> foo ary |> bar ary |> $ ary |> meow
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<dmbaturin>
MooseAndCaml: That should work without parens (apart from those around fun). Operator partial applications won't work without parens around the operator though.
<MooseAndCaml>
So the switch would have to be ($ ary) ?
<MooseAndCaml>
doh ($) i get it
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<dmbaturin>
Also, you use $ inside the let ($) = but don't declare it recursive, that's strange.
<dmbaturin>
And I'm not sure what the whole thing is supposed to do. :)
<MooseAndCaml>
I'm iterating over lists to fill an array, which is then converted back to a list and transformed further. My is normally you need to run the list transformations filling the array followed by semi-colon and then ary |> ... this just allows injecting a new input midstream
<MooseAndCaml>
this is all to do with being unfamiliar and uneasy with array and iterative processes and when they are performed - is there any aspect that is lazy similar to haskell?
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<MooseAndCaml>
I'm also fond of these |> chains flowing down my screen and |> ($) seems like a way to stay in that workflow. I don't know if there is an overhead though
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<sdegutis>
Does OCaml have anything like Haskell's "sections" feature?
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<dmbaturin>
sdegutis: You mean infix operator sections?
<sdegutis>
kind of
<sdegutis>
I mean where (2-) is (fun x -> 2 - x) etc
<sdegutis>
it's a nice short-hand
<sdegutis>
dmbaturin: in other words, it's short-hand for partial application (which allows for putting values on either side of an infix operator)
<dmbaturin>
List.map ((-) 2 ) [1;2;3]
<dmbaturin>
No shortcut for right section though.
<sdegutis>
aww
<sdegutis>
that may be the Haskell feature I miss the most
<sdegutis>
can I just add it to OCaml's compiler?
<sdegutis>
and it'll get merged?
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<a12rk>
Hello, does anyone see any problem in my function?
<a12rk>
let path g n m =
<a12rk>
let rec exists_path g n m_path =
<a12rk>
if (List.hd m_path = n) then true
<a12rk>
else (let predecessors = (pred g (List.hd m_path)) in
<a12rk>
let unexplored = (List.filter (fun x -> List.mem x m_path <> true) predecessors) in
<a12rk>
(if unexplored = [] then false else
<a12rk>
List.fold_left (fun acc x -> acc || exists_path g n x::m_path) false unexplored)) in
<a12rk>
exists_path g n [m];;
<dmbaturin>
sdegutis: You can emulate it with something like let (~><) f x y = f y x ;; List.map (~>< (/) 3) [9;6;3]
<sdegutis>
dmbaturin: neat
<sdegutis>
thanks
<dmbaturin>
a12rk: You should better use http://bpaste.net or similar for pasting code.
<a12rk>
I'm trying to find if there is a path from n to m in a graph but am getting that exists_path g n x::m_path returns a' list when it should return a bool
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<struktured>
a12rk: what is pred? it is by default int -> int
<a12rk>
struktured: it is another function I defined that gets predecessors in the graph it has sig 'a graph -> 'a -> 'a list
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<struktured>
a12rk: you are totally overdoing the parentices lol
<destrius>
silly type theory question: what's the term for a type that contains no free type variables?
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<a12rk>
struktured: yeah I just wanted to make sure I eliminate any possible source of problems before I asked
<struktured>
a12rk: ok I see one problem for sure. you need to put parens the cons in your fold function, "(x::m_path)" instead of (x::m_path)"
<struktured>
*parens around the cons
<struktured>
a12rk: argh I meant to omit the parens in the 2nd part of that sentence. anyway just put parentices around that expression, it will fix one issue.
<a12rk>
struktured: thanks that made it compile now... is that the only issue with it?
<struktured>
a12rk: I guess its fine but I didn't really study it semantically.
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<flux>
emacs+merlin+tuareg
<flux>
..definitely merlin
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<flux>
oh, he had left :-)
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<whitequark>
smondet: add some swap then
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<adrien_znc>
going to be a bit slow probably :)
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<flux>
I wonder how it uses that 500 MB
<flux>
if it's not going all around it, it could be tolerable
<flux>
maybe zswap would work well :), I assume there's a lot of redundancy in that data
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<flux>
or actaully zram, that comes with at least debian unstable default kernel
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<whitequark>
adrien_znc: nah
<whitequark>
I've built LLVM on a machine with 1G of RAM and 8G of swap
<whitequark>
sure, it takes like 30 minutes more
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<MercurialAlchemi>
am I right in thinking that the right way to have a curried function with named and optional arguments is to have it take () as the last parameter ?
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<Drup>
any non-named parameter, in fact
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<MercurialAlchemi>
still beats the builder pattern :)
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<toolslive>
there was a discussion here lately on labels and somebody didn't like them, but I consider them a gentle force towards consistent naming and a better solution to currying in multiple directions than haskell's flip
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<MercurialAlchemi>
labels are fantastic
<MercurialAlchemi>
besides, how else would you have abstracted, large-ish business objects?
<MercurialAlchemi>
(if you would want a constructor function that was readable, that is - functions with 10+ unlabelled arguments are not maintainable)
<MercurialAlchemi>
it can also help prevent mistakes, when your function takes, say, three strings
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<Drup>
MercurialAlchemi: people in other languages use objects
<Drup>
(or records)
<Drup>
(it's the same anyway)
<Drup>
of course you loose partial application if your language don't have a special construct for it.
<def`>
I would like a dual mechanism for naming results
<Drup>
def`: or, equivalently, well optimized anonymous object with a less verbose syntax
<def`>
'well optimized' is less predictible
<Drup>
yeah
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<companion_cube>
Drup: is there an equivalent to Lwt.finally with lwt.ppx ?
<whitequark>
[@lwt.finally], surprisingly
<companion_cube>
try%let foo [@lwt.finally bar] ?
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<companion_cube>
try%lwt*
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<whitequark>
yes
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<companion_cube>
ok, thanks
<companion_cube>
I'm moving some code to lwt.ppx, very nice indeed
<companion_cube>
I'm only lacking an equivalent of foo >>= function ....
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<whitequark>
>>= is not syntax
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<companion_cube>
Drup: did you consider function%lwt ... ?
<whitequark>
it's just an operator
<companion_cube>
yes, I know
<whitequark>
so what prevents you from keeping to use it?..
<def`>
not abusing of syntax extensions would be less cool
<companion_cube>
I think foo >>= function .... can be replaced by match%lwt foo ....
<companion_cube>
best thing: try%lwt
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<whitequark>
match%lwt works yeah
<whitequark>
you can't quite chain it
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<dario_>
Is there a lib out there for pretty-printing the runtime representation of a value?
<dario_>
(Something that would use the Obj module to traverse the value)
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<dario_>
It's not hard to write a such a lib, but I suspect it's already out there...
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<gargawel>
Hi, I've got this warning using oasis + ocamlbuild when I enable the "tests" flag:
<gargawel>
Warning: the tag "tests" is not used in any flag declaration, so it will have no effect; it may be a typo. Otherwise use `mark_tag_used` in your myocamlbuild.ml to disable this warning.
<dario_>
Never mind, I just wrote a quick and dirty one...
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<gargawel>
However, enabling the tests flag DOES work, so I'm a bit confused ; is there a way to get rid of this annoying warning ?
<flux>
dario_, Batteries has Std.dump
<gargawel>
(Of course, I'd like to avoid tweaking the myocamlbuild.ml generated by oasis...)
<dario_>
flux: that's exactly what I was looking for, thanks!
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<Drup>
gargawel: new feature of ocamlbuild, no real way except hacking in oasis, which nobody really wants to do
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<MercurialAlchemi>
Drup: how are objects a replacement for named arguments?
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<flux>
mercurialalchemi, well, in the same way records are
<Drup>
return an object, it's structurally typed
<MercurialAlchemi>
say your object has five string fields
<gargawel>
Drup: ok -_-
<MercurialAlchemi>
new Object("a","b","c","d","e")
<MercurialAlchemi>
same problem
<Drup>
MercurialAlchemi: ocaml objects
<flux>
mercurialalchemi, nope. object method a = "hello" method b = "hiyuo" method age = 42 end
<MercurialAlchemi>
ah
<mrvn>
object inherit default_args method a = "hello" method b = "hiyuo" method age = 42 end?
<MercurialAlchemi>
I thought we were talking about "other languages"
<Drup>
MercurialAlchemi: javascript mostly has the same objects as ocaml
<MercurialAlchemi>
this certainly wouldn't be an improvement over named arguments
<Drup>
just dynamic typing, but it's still prototype based
<flux>
mrvn, hey, my original content was copyrighted!1!
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<MercurialAlchemi>
Drup: I must admit my lack of familiarity with OCaml's object system, apart from the fact that row polymorphism could be useful sometimes
<flux>
but in js you can 'inherit' from prototypes (ie. values), not so ocaml. at times I wish that, though.
<mrvn>
MercurialAlchemi: in this use case the object is just like a record
<MercurialAlchemi>
mrvn: yes, I see that
<MercurialAlchemi>
much like you'd juste a plain hash in JS
<flux>
maybe objects would be more popular in ocaml if there was a more succinct built-in syntax for constructing them?-)
<Drup>
probably
<flux>
I suggest: {> a = 42 <} !
<flux>
most annoying braces ever
<mrvn>
like [| |]?
<MercurialAlchemi>
(: a = 42 :)
<Drup>
flux: {< ... >}
<MercurialAlchemi>
the smiley brackets
<Drup>
it's already used for objects
<flux>
drup, wasn't that what streams used..
<Drup>
better reused that
<flux>
ah right
<mrvn>
Lets make it interesting and use ): method a = 17 :(
<flux>
forgot about that :)
<MercurialAlchemi>
mrvn: that's the sad version
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<flux>
drup, but how would the complete syntax be as in not to break existing code?
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<mrvn>
:) method a = 17 (:
<mrvn>
# object method a = 17 end;;
<mrvn>
- : < a : int > = <obj>
<mrvn>
so maybe it should just be < ... > to construct too?
<flux>
probably annoying to parse
<flux>
a < b = d > c
<mrvn>
flux: missing method
<flux>
you mean missing method-keyword?
<mrvn>
yes
<flux>
but I thought the point was to get rid of that as well.
<mrvn>
oh?
<flux>
< method a = 42 >
<flux>
still not quite the succinctness of { a = 42 }
<flux>
though I think it could still be annoying to parse
<mrvn>
flux: what about val mutable x = 0?
<flux>
well, you cannot access it really, can you?
<flux>
you would be constructing a 'real' object if you wanted to do that
<flux>
and you could then just use the 'object end'..
<mrvn>
Wouldn't you cut out the "val" same as "method"?
<flux>
I would support only 'method' for the short syntax
<flux>
for example, example of 100% useless code: object val a = 42 end
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<mrvn>
flux: obejct val mutable x = 0 method get = x method set n = x <- n end
<MercurialAlchemi>
< meth a = 42 >
<flux>
yes. I don't mind using the long form in that case.
<mrvn>
< meth amphetamine = 0 >
<flux>
it's the case when you have let get_record x = {> name = x; age = 42 <}
<MercurialAlchemi>
mrvn: I was thinking of having an easter egg < crystal a = 42 >
<mrvn>
flux: one could always write: let x = ref 0 in < get = x ??? set n = x <- n >
<mrvn>
Use of ; would require begin/end or () too often
<flux>
'too often', not really, because it would be used for 'value objects'
<flux>
..exactly the same as records ;-)
<mrvn>
sucks there too
<mrvn>
but you have a point
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<flux>
I suppose someone could just write a ppx for this, even if the syntax would be slightly longer.
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<smondet>
whitequark: I actually had tried that, it turns out many VPS providers forbid creating swap files (some switch at the hypervisor level). But anyway that was just one of the many reasons not to use core_kernel.
<whitequark>
huh
<whitequark>
i've used linode
<whitequark>
and selectel
<whitequark>
neither cares
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<flux>
I wonder what they care how a virtual server uses its IO - except money, or if they're just providing containers
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<struktured>
companion_cube: perhaps I'm being stupid but I can't execute the test suite in containers. the directions don't work for me from the gitub page.
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<whitequark>
is there really any platform where ocaml still runs but Unix does not?
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<rom1504>
all of them ? (does unix still exist ?)
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<ousado>
Unix is a std lib module :)
<MercurialAlchemi>
whitequark: windows?
<flux>
nope, there is Unix-module for Windows
<MercurialAlchemi>
ocaml turns windows into unix?
<MercurialAlchemi>
awesome
<whitequark>
ousado: it's not built with ocaml itself
<whitequark>
or rather, it's built optionally
<ousado>
ok, my bad, an almost std lib modeule then
<ousado>
*module
<ousado>
but back to the question: perhaps parts of openmirage?
<whitequark>
oh, right
<whitequark>
but besides that?
<flux>
ocapic folks?-)
<whitequark>
they're not building a cross-compiler
<whitequark>
js_of_ocaml too
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<ousado>
avsm1: I've just been watching "My Other Internet is a Mirage", way too impressive
<ousado>
is there a page that describes the features & compatibility of your DNS server?
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<nicoo>
whitequark: jsoo is probably unhappy about Unix
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<nicoo>
Ah, already quoted
<adrien>
21:05 whitequark : is there really any platform where ocaml still runs but Unix does not?
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<adrien>
why are you asking btw?
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<companion_cube>
struktured: you need to enable several switches in ./configure
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<whitequark>
adrien: internet argument
<companion_cube>
well, JS is such a platform, for sure
<adrien>
whitequark: heh :)
<adrien>
I was asking roughly the same not long ago
<companion_cube>
struktured: also, "make test" should launch every test (including qtest)
<whitequark>
adrien: so what's the answeR?
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<adrien>
I don't have it either :P
<adrien>
but in the absence of answer I won't care about ocamlbuild without Unix
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<adrien>
and if someone doesn't have it, this someone will have to speak up
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<Drup>
it's actually not completely true for js ....
<Drup>
some calls are emulated.
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<Drup>
toolslive: I went and check the Lwt_log
<Drup>
why is "load_rules" not sufficient ?
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<Drup>
it also resets the rules (and allows you to give yours immediately)
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<toolslive>
Drup: you're forcing me into a detour: create text that you can parse iso allowing me to add the rules immediately ?
<Drup>
HUM
<Drup>
that's quite true
<Drup>
I'm just wondering if not reloading the content of the env variable is really what we want
<toolslive>
in general, putting a whole config in an environment var seems over the top.
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<toolslive>
but that's an opinion.
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<Drup>
but if someone using your software put things in the env variable, and your program doesn't behave accordingly, it's rather bad
<toolslive>
hm, I never tried to set that env var in combination with this server. you say it will influence my logconfig ?
<Drup>
yes
<Drup>
look at lwt_log_core line 108-132
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<Drup>
it basically read the content of the LWT_LOG env variable and apply add_rule on it.
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<toolslive>
right. a global let _ = .... side effect. ....
<Drup>
yep
<toolslive>
who's idea was that?
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<toolslive>
my main problem is that we already use a config file to configure everything else for our server. It's not nice to force a user to configure parts using a config file and then other things via an env var, it's even worse to have accidental things happening.
<Drup>
fair enough
<Drup>
someone who want to reset to the env variable can use Lwt_log.load_rules anyway
<Drup>
toolslive: but I'm pretty sure you do need to add " Section.recompute_levels ()" ;)
<toolslive>
ok. I will do so.
<Drup>
I must say, this new invargent tools sounds quite fantastic.
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<toolslive>
off to bed. have fun!
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