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<
nullcatxxx_ >
anyone knows why this happens? down to compiler internal i mean
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<
manuel__ >
if there a way to make an output channel that writes to a string, so i can use fprintf, or do i have to use sprintf
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<
palomer >
is it ok to do a hashtbl.replace within a function you pass to Hashtbl.iter
05:38
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<
palomer >
I’ve been wondering this question for years
05:45
<
palomer >
I need closure!
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<
ggole >
palomer: you can remove or replace the current element, I think
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<
palomer >
are you sure?
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06:39
<
ggole >
I've asked (essentially) the same question on this channel before and "yes" was the answer
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<
companion_cube >
ggole: you can, but if you change a binding in a bucket not iterated on yet, you will iterate on the new value
09:03
<
companion_cube >
if you change bindings already iterated on, or in the same bucket as the current key, it's ok
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10:29
<
orbifx >
which library do you recommend for parsing arguments?
10:29
<
orbifx >
getopts seems good
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10:33
<
companion_cube >
for basic things, Arg is fine
10:33
<
orbifx >
companion_cube: that's what I'm coming to realise too.
10:33
<
orbifx >
bbc: I'll have a look.
10:33
<
ely-se >
that's taking arguments, not passing them :P
10:34
<
orbifx >
ely-se: "parsing"
10:35
<
orbifx >
bbc: cmdliner seems popular
10:40
<
bbc >
I find it practical even for small applications but as companion_cube suggested, it is certainly not necessary for basic ones
10:43
<
orbifx >
yeah it seems a bit more perplex
10:44
<
orbifx >
is there an exaple showing how you can just get a couple of values in a couple of lines?
10:44
<
orbifx >
I found one for ARG
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<
orbifx >
correct me if I'm wrong, Arg seems to require mutable values. Does Cmdliner need them too?
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10:53
<
bbc >
I don't know much about Arg but I think it's safe to say Cmdliner is more declarative
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<
orbifx >
is there something like hoogle for ocaml?
10:58
<
orbifx >
to look up functions and definitions?
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<
orbifx >
bbc: the notation Arg.(value...)
11:05
<
orbifx >
is it an index of an array?
11:06
<
bbc >
no, Arg is a module here (capitalized A)
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<
bbc >
it's as if the module was opened between the parentheses, allowing you not to prefix "value" and other stuff you use from this module
11:11
<
orbifx >
is this some Cmdliner hacker or standard Ocaml?
11:12
<
bbc >
it's standard
11:15
<
orbifx >
cool thanks
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<
orbifx >
thanks for the help bbc
11:30
<
orbifx >
cya later all
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<
enamex_c >
Has there been any attempts at putting active-pattern-like functionality (from fsharp) in Ocaml or SML? (via a library even; or maybe a custom implementation for SML; I just can't find anything about it being discussed and think "active pattern" might not be the word usually used for it)
13:16
<
dmbaturin >
What exactly is an active pattern? Could you point me to the relevant F# docs section?
13:20
<
companion_cube >
I think it's patterns (as in pattern matching) that can be manipulated like values
13:20
<
companion_cube >
and composed
13:20
<
enamex_c >
It's basically custom patterns
13:21
<
enamex_c >
You write it like you would a function (different syntax but it feels the same "input -> transformation -> output") so you could deconstruct custom datatypes based on a custom pattern
13:22
<
enamex_c >
For example, an "Even" custom pattern would only match even integers and maybe can be used as "Even n" where "n" is declared as normal in native patterns
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13:24
<
qdwang >
is real world ocaml the best learning book for ocaml?
13:25
<
Drup >
companion_cube: it's not really a pattern
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13:25
<
Drup >
It's a function of type 'a -> 'b option
13:25
<
Drup >
if Some x is returns, it "matches"
13:26
<
Drup >
I don't think it will ever appear in OCaml, for two reasons: 1) you can't check exhaustivity with that anymore 2) the perf profile is not the same than regular patterns at all
13:27
<
dmbaturin >
I'm not sure if it really more expressive or handy than normal patterns and functions.
13:28
<
Drup >
I think something interesting would be a small extension to piggy back pattern matching syntax, given a scott encoding version of said pattern
13:29
<
enamex_c >
It's infinitely more expressive than normal patterns because normal patterns are confined to structure of the type while active patterns can deconstruct the object however way.
13:29
<
enamex_c >
I'm not sure how F# handles exhaustivity checks...
13:29
<
Drup >
enamex_c: last time I heard about those thing, it didn't
13:29
<
enamex_c >
But it seems that active patterns declared together when used enforce a check in that match block. Going to go check, tho
13:30
<
ASau >
For start, "infinitely more expressive" is nonsensical expression.
13:32
<
ASau >
I'd like to see formal definition that doesn't come from microsoft documentation.
13:33
<
Drup >
there was this at some point
13:33
<
ASau >
I'd like to see demonstration how "active pattern" is different from parser.
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13:35
<
ggole >
Pattern synonyms are a bit different to active patterns, aren't they?
13:35
<
enamex_c >
Hmm, so "parser" isn't something I came across while playing with SML, as a feature. And it's been mentioned on #sml too. What's that?
13:35
<
ggole >
They're more of a straight up abstraction (in the LC sense)
13:36
<
enamex_c >
ASau: They're as expressive as a function is. Domain of all types and range of all types, with any arbitrary transformation allowed in-between. While native patterns only support one form: match on case+fields for tagged unions and match on fields for structs.
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13:38
<
ASau >
enamex_c: how are they different to parsers then?
13:39
<
enamex_c >
I really don't know what that is!
13:39
<
enamex_c >
A library or something?
13:39
<
ASau >
If you don't know what parser is, then you don't need to aks questions about buzzwords from microsoft.
13:40
<
Drup >
ASau: what about being helpful instead of condescending ? Is just answering the question that difficult ?
13:40
<
enamex_c >
... I know active patterns in F#. They work and aren't buzzwords. I haven't come across a "parser" feature in SML/Ocaml, so...
13:41
<
ASau >
Parser is generic feature across all programming languages.
13:41
<
ASau >
Generic construction.
13:42
<
Drup >
ASau: except you made it seems like it was a specific language construct, not just a parser ...
13:42
<
ASau >
enamex_c: Is the term "active pattern" used anywhere besides F#?
13:44
<
ASau >
Drup: I'm trying to understand what exactly the term denotes.
13:44
<
enamex_c >
Not that I'm aware of. They're very very similar to Haskell's view patterns, though
13:44
<
ASau >
So far, my best understanding is this:
13:44
<
ASau >
"active pattern" is microsoft buzzword,
13:44
<
Drup >
it's a feature of a language u_u'
13:44
<
ASau >
it denotes something like parser.
13:44
<
ASau >
Perhaps just parser and nothing more.
13:45
<
dmbaturin >
enamex_c: If you are looking for existing features you can use to avoid predefined sum types and introduce additional checks, you may want to look into polymorphic variants and guarded patterns.
13:45
<
ASau >
As such, the construction is more or less a well-known Lisp "cond".
13:45
<
Drup >
Ok, you seem like a troll, so I'll just be ignoring you.
13:46
<
dmbaturin >
Otherwise I'll refrain from comments specifically on pattern synonyms until I figure out the details of semantics Scherer proposes. :)
13:46
<
Drup >
enamex_c: to be honest, active patterns seems like a bit of sugar for scott encoding :p
13:47
<
enamex_c >
Well, something to search for at least ;)
13:49
<
enamex_c >
dmbaturin: No guarded patterns in SML yet and that's what I'm learning :/ They're also in F#, which is so much closer to Ocaml in some ways, so I'm not picking up Ocaml for now.
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13:50
<
dmbaturin >
enamex_c: Note that F# dropped one of the most important features present in both SML and OCaml: its module system. And OCaml object system as well.
13:54
<
Drup >
enamex_c: it's no surprise that F# is closer to OCaml, since it started as a derivative of OCaml
13:54
<
Drup >
(it evolved quite a bit since :p)
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13:57
<
enamex_c >
dmbaturin: It's actually "view patterns" not "pattern synonyms"; just to make sure I didn't introduce a soup of terms here ;)
13:57
<
Drup >
enamex_c: is talking about the article I linked earlier
13:58
<
enamex_c >
It's quite readible and doesn't assume much besides knowing how a traditional functional lang does things.
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14:03
<
dmbaturin >
enamex_c: It's customary to specify at least the title and the author. Ideally, the year or publication and the journal/book/proceedings where it was published. How else can I know we are talking about the same paper? ;)
14:04
<
enamex_c >
Syme, Don, Gregory Neverov, and James Margetson. "Extensible pattern matching via a lightweight language extension." ACM SIGPLAN Notices. Vol. 42. No. 9. ACM, 2007.
14:05
<
enamex_c >
Uh, sorry, got to dash. Should be back online in 2 hours and might pop back in. Cya!
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14:09
<
ASau >
I've skimmed through that paper. It confirms my impression that "active pattern" is just something like a parser.
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14:11
<
ASau >
(With the whole construct being just a combination of Lisp "cond" with "destructuring-bind", nothing utilizing properties of algebraic sums.)
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<
dmbaturin >
I like how the most common justification in that paper is "because .Net objects". ;)
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<
dmbaturin >
I should read about the view patterns and see if it's the same thing though.
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<
nullcatx_ >
how to pin a local package on a certain branch in opam?
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20:13
<
manuel__ >
i've got a menhir question, the manual says that on error state, the current lookahead is discarded and replaced with tthe error token
20:13
<
manuel__ >
why is it discarded, this makes my life very difficult
20:15
<
manuel__ >
for example imagine you have a c like language, with the string a[123+;b+i
20:17
<
manuel__ >
menhir will replace ";" with error, it being the lookahead that leads to an error
20:17
<
manuel__ >
and because of that i can't really resume from the next ;, because it's not there anymore
20:17
<
manuel__ >
it mentions that this behaviour might be desirable in the manual, but i don't understand why you would want the behaviour menhir exhibits
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