01:53 <cyrozap> <alyssa> --Seriously, what's wrong with SVG

01:53 <cyrozap> alyssa: XML.

01:54 <cyrozap> XML is what's wrong with SVG.

01:56 <alyssa> cyrozap: Disturbingly, the XML is the easy part

01:57 <cyrozap> I remember reading an article a while back that explained all the horribleness of SVG 1.x and why 2.0 was necessary, lemme see if I can find it...

03:13 <cyrozap> It turns out I was almost completely misremembering the article I read. That said, IMO SVG is super over-engineered and would be better off replaced by a vector-drawing library for a general-purpose programming language, since a lot of the problems that SVG attempts to solve could probably be better done with a little scripting. Oh, wait, that's basically D3.js :P

03:18 <cyrozap> And maybe there could be a declarative language for static vector graphics that can be treated the same way raster image files are today, where there's no parameterization or introspection into the objects from something like HTML/JS/CSS and it's just used as an input for rasterization (either live or pre-generated).

04:36 <alyssa> I mean, SVG has a lot of different purposes

04:36 <alyssa> As a vector interchange format, yeah, totally overengineered

04:37 <alyssa> But as the backbone to a full-blown vector graphics suite (plus some vendored extensions for stuff, I guess... minus the random CSS/JS/etc stuff)... it's reasonable? Inkscape genuinely gets this right imo

05:47 <sleepymario> hello everyone. i see on the panfrost gitlab page that there's a mesa driver already, and that it should be possible to try the drivers if one customizes the kernel, is that correct?

05:50 <alyssa> More or less, but it's not ready for general use yet

06:03 <sleepymario> okay, i'll stay patient then. is it 'quite useable' or should i really not try for now?

06:07 <alyssa> sleepymario: Usable.. for what?

06:10 <sleepymario> i'd to try and get Xorg/Wayland working on this Tinkerboard that I have here with some form of hw accel in the end. ultimately it's going to be some kind of emulator/media server but that's really in no hurry.

06:10 <alyssa> Tinkerboard? T760 support is not working in current master, sorry

06:11 <sleepymario> oh that's a pity

06:12 <sleepymario> is it likely that it will work sometime in the future or not?

06:13 <sleepymario> *will be included

14:15 <TheCycoONE> aw, but I like mixing svg and js/css :p It's good when the graphic designers want little preview graphics for display options.

14:16 <TheCycoONE> they can send me the illustrator, and I can rip out all the adobe garbage, set a couple handy id's/class names, embed in a web page and win.

16:18 <alyssa> TheCycoONE: Tasty but

16:18 <alyssa> Inkscape tbh

16:44 <TheCycoONE> nah, the graphics designers all run Adobe products because they drank the koolaid. I have inkscape installed, but find it easier to edit by hand for that sort of thing.

16:50 <raster> bah

16:50 <raster> coolaid

16:50 <raster> i like my gimp and inkscape

16:50 <raster> :)

23:32 <alyssa> Krita <3

23:54 <robher> alyssa: up to you. It can probably wait until at least there is another winsys someone wants to add.