antocuni changed the topic of #pypy to: PyPy, the flexible snake (IRC logs: https://botbot.me/freenode/pypy/ ) | use cffi for calling C | "PyPy: the Gradual Reduction of Magic (tm)"
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<Joghurt> Do the recent PyPy releases still support JIT in the ARM builds? The documentation is a little confusing
<Joghurt> Actually, what I care more about is whether RPython still supports JIT under ARM
<tumbleweed> yes, they do
<tumbleweed> only arm7, though
<tumbleweed> well, and some v6
<tumbleweed> it needs vfp
<Joghurt> Good to hear, thanks
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<jneen> ooo is set() not supported either then
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<raynold> ahh it's a wonderful day
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<kenaan> gutworth default 9a00e4a12145 /: assume math.copysign and always use it over rfloat.copysign
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<arigato> jneen: in rpython? no, no set()
<arigato> gutworth: ah, yes
<kenaan> gutworth default 5e25481ab30d /pypy/objspace/std/objspace.py: no point trying to specialize a NOT_RPYTHON function
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<kenaan> mattip cpyext-datetime2 e3d98c733d8b /: create interp classes to hold the tzinfo field, hack till tests pass and translates
<fijal> arigato: hi
<arigato> hi
<Cheery> hi
<Cheery> Aside the rlib.rerased, is there anything I could use when implementing a numerics library?
<Cheery> right now I'll have class Numeric with strategy and storage fields
<Cheery> and the strategy will also contain reference to 'form', which describes the structure of the numeric.
<Cheery> I'm looking at it and thinking that it can actually become quite nice when I do little bit of work to it.
<Cheery> but I might still like to erase one indirection here that appears between the numeric -object and the storage.
<arigato> we can't give general answers, the question is too vague, but rlib.rerased lets you have several types in a mutable data structure
<Cheery> arigato: does this help? https://bpaste.net/show/678ed3021ae1
<arigato> isn't it all immutable?
<Cheery> it will be yes.
<arigato> then why do you need rerased? you can just put whatever fields in the subclasses
<arigato> ah, there are no subclasses of Numeric
<arigato> so yes, one more standard OO approach would be to make subclasses of Numeric instead of using rerased
<Cheery> hmmm.. that would perhaps be a good idea.
<arigato> rerased was really designed as a workaround for an RPython limitation: you can't change the class of an instance
<Cheery> it would still probably need the mixin -thing.
<Cheery> I still got the indirection though. I was filling .x, .y, .z etc. with float before this.
<Cheery> you're right though, this doesn't need the rerased
<Cheery> it needs something else.
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<cfbolz> arigato: that's 'easy', somebody needs to decide on a threshold when to stop using maps
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<cfbolz> jneen: you get set performance by using dicts with None values
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<Phi_is_161803398> Morning, anyone here?
<arigato> hi! kind of, yes
<Phi_is_161803398> Issue I have is as follows: trying to use pypy for a python 3.5-3.6 project. Project uses modules numpy, vegas, and scipy. However, upon trying to install NumPyPy as per the instructions, I get an error saying izip is not in itertools.
<Phi_is_161803398> My regular python distribution is 3.6 on Anaconda
<Phi_is_161803398> I made sure to download 10.5.1 with python 3 support from the website
<arigato> yes? "itertools.izip" doesn't exist in python 3 any more
<arigato> only in python 2
<Phi_is_161803398> Yes, so why is PyPy trying to run Python2-only code?
<arigato> ah, I missed that you try NumPyPy
<arigato> don't try that one
<arigato> instead, simply do "pypy3 -m pip install numpy"
<Phi_is_161803398> Ah. I'll give that whirl
<Phi_is_161803398> report back in a minute
<Phi_is_161803398> Yields Microsoft VS errors but I'll manage those.
<Phi_is_161803398> any plans to make NumPyPy python3 compatible?
<Phi_is_161803398> It appears pypy3 is still trying to use a python 2 installer
<Phi_is_161803398> Error message is this: https://bpaste.net/show/782d0bcbc15f
<Phi_is_161803398> Visual Studio compiler fails with exit code 2
<arigato> that doesn't tell me anything
<arigato> paste the whole thing?
<Phi_is_161803398> 1818 lines :)
<arigato> sorry, don't know what is wrong (why do you think it's related to Python 2?)
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<Phi_is_161803398> The VS C++ 9.0 is for Python 2.7 specifically
<Phi_is_161803398> So that's my hunch
<Phi_is_161803398> I'll see if I can't get a conda env with Python 2.7 up
<Phi_is_161803398> Thanks for your help :)
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<arigato> ah, yes, pypy3 on Windows still tries to call VS C++ 9.0
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<Phi_is_161803398> Good argument for my employer to allow me to use Linux :)
<Phi_is_161803398> Time for lunch
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<kenaan> arigo pypy.org[extradoc] a32c233f73e0 /: Make it clearer that PyPy3 Win32 is beta
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<arigato> Phi_is_161803398: been looking more, but it seems that numpy for python 3 fails to compile with this old compiler
<Phi_is_161803398> Sucky sucky
<arigato> someone would need to dig inside the generated .c files
<arigato> alternatively, if you feel like it, you can start digging inside pypy3 to figure out why it still uses that old VC
<arigato> which doesn't really make sense to me because it is using the new python3 standard library
<arigato> but maybe it's a part that we modified somehow
<arigato> (as you can tell I'm no Windows guy)
<arigato> the final option is that "we can't use beta software" can be used as an argument to switch to linux :-)
<Phi_is_161803398> Not a Windows guy either
<arigato> ...ah, no, in order to support a more recent VC we'd need pypy3 itself to be compiled with it too, and that needs tweaks in the buildbots
<Phi_is_161803398> Great.
<Phi_is_161803398> I'll try and make do with numba then
<arigato> sorry about that, we really need someone on windows who wants to drive it forward
<Phi_is_161803398> Hey, it is what it is
<Phi_is_161803398> I spent exactly 0 euros on this piece of software
<Phi_is_161803398> I'm happy that I got help at all
<Phi_is_161803398> Vegas documentation got taken offline /o\
<arigato> heh, usually it's the other way around: free software is easier to help with
<arigato> ...to get help with
<Phi_is_161803398> Yeah, bigger pool of devs to help
<Phi_is_161803398> But then it's mostly Linux-based
<arigato> yesish. Im confident that the Windows part will be fleshed out. it's just that we first released the PyPy3 complete version last month
<arigato> so it's new
<Phi_is_161803398> Yeah, it's cool
<arigato> if python 2 is ok for you, try pypy2 on windows
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<Phi_is_161803398> I'd have to port all my code to python 2
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<cfbolz> arigato: do you have an opinion from how many attributes on instances should give up and use a dict? 64?
<arigato> I vaguely thought about a similar number, but maybe we should quickly check, comparing times with and without a call to __dict__={
<arigato> d.__dict__={}
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<cfbolz> arigato: eh, indeed. at 64 attributes, mapdict is still faster for a loop that does setattr!
<cfbolz> but at 80 it isn't
<cfbolz> I should measure this a bit more systematically
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<kenaan> mattip cpyext-datetime2 862b4b1c5eda /pypy/module/cpyext/: make headers compatible with cpython, prevent recursive tp_dealloc
<mattip> cpyext is really good, I can run untranslated tests to try rpython code that imports functions written in C, a whole module written in pure python,
<mattip> the classes all inherit from eachother and it just works
<mattip> in this branch the pure-python module imports interp-level mixed modules, and inherits from the W_* classes
<mattip> about ensurepip
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<mattip> this page https://pip.pypa.io/en/stable/installing doesn't mention it, are we packaging differently than cpython?
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