cfbolz changed the topic of #pypy to: PyPy, the flexible snake (IRC logs: https://quodlibet.duckdns.org/irc/pypy/latest.log.html#irc-end ) | use cffi for calling C | if a pep adds a mere 25-30 [C-API] functions or so, it's a drop in the ocean (cough) - Armin
<mattip>
I recently presented PyPy to the company I work at. One of the questions was "other than speed, why use PyPy"
<mattip>
I was stumped for a good answer, especially because we are not always faster
<simpson>
You could always ask them why they choose Python, and then ask why they would choose a Python interpreter *not* written in Python. It's Socratic and rude, but gets the point across.
pmp-p has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
pmp-p has joined #pypy
lritter has joined #pypy
<mattip>
they choose python because that is what gets the job done, not because they are enamored with the language.
<mattip>
from that perspective CPython gets the job done better than PyPy
<mattip>
on the topic of rsre: at some point rpython/rlib/rsre/rpy/sre_compile.py and rpython/rlib/rsre/rpy/sre_parse.py diverged slightly
<simpson>
Ah. Then don't worry about it; with that sort of logic, any poor decision could be justified. It sounds like they're not actually interested in the motivation, but in excuses.
<mattip>
between default and py3.6, it seems somewhere in the update of stdlib to 2.7.16 ???
<mattip>
simpson: it is a pragmatic view. If PyPy could get the job done better they would use it.
<mattip>
what part of the job, other than speed, does PyPy do better?
<simpson>
The answer that I've arrived at, when I hear those sorts of objections, is that the objecter has confused themselves into thinking that they picked a popular or easy tool because it is a good tool. This is really common in business, where folks are often trained to imagine that "good for business" == "good".
<simpson>
That's all. I don't think that there's actually any technical meat to bite into. Like, make a person write a CPython extension in C and also the same extension as a plain pure Python module; which is faster? Which is smaller? Which took less effort to write?
<LarstiQ>
I'm convinced it's better not to write CPython extensions, but from the perspective of using them/tools already there, PyPy can be more painful.
<LarstiQ>
Perhaps an argument is that PyPy is a force acting on the Python ecosystem making it better off, and that is worth supporting?
<mattip>
yeah, that was the direction I took: cffi, hpy, stm, various optimizations all started with ideas that pypy helped germinate or even implemented first
<antocuni>
mattip: I think that apart speed, there are very few reasons to choose PyPy over CPython, honestly
<antocuni>
the only reason I can think of is to use PyPy TOGETHER with CPython. E.g., you have a package and you test it with both interpreters, as a way to make sure that you don't unnecessarily rely on implementation-specific semantics