cfbolz changed the topic of #pypy to: PyPy, the flexible snake (IRC logs: https://quodlibet.duckdns.org/irc/pypy/latest.log.html#irc-end ) | use cffi for calling C | if a pep adds a mere 25-30 [C-API] functions or so, it's a drop in the ocean (cough) - Armin
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<fijal>
oberstet: hey, I'm around now
<oberstet>
ah, hi!
<fijal>
so vmprof.... I'm quite disappointed in myself and the state of vmprof tbh ;-)
<fijal>
we thought if we make it a service, we can make it a business
<fijal>
but turns out that pople don't care all that much
<oberstet>
so, in my eyes, the service is one thing, the profiler itself another. are you disappointed rgd the former (only) or latter (also)?
<fijal>
profiler mostly works and does a good job
<fijal>
except when it doesn't and that needs fixing
<fijal>
it's a bit tricky with pypy and the JIT though
<fijal>
but fixable tricky, I think
<fijal>
so mostly the service/presentation
<oberstet>
right, I was hoping to hear that you still are convinced of vmprof! =) I am. it's super useful, and the ability to profile in production, and ..
<fijal>
I have been doing a lot of non-IT stuff recently
<fijal>
you might be glad to hear we are quite heavily using crossbar at the climbing gym
<oberstet>
=) for realz? cool
<fijal>
well, we don't *really* use it for anything too useful I guess
<fijal>
but our internal system runs on crossbar, I find it quite a pleasant way to do web
<oberstet>
some thoughts rgd the "service": in the context of profiling, the closest sw cat. I can see is big enterprise monitoring systems ... a plugin for sth that exists there and allows to deeply tap into any python VM running on any server in the enterprise does sound like a thing ..
<fijal>
yes, I think that's the right idea
<fijal>
have you found something where it would make sense to plug in?
<fijal>
I *think* fixing it for arm64 would not be a massive task
<oberstet>
ok, couple of thoughts .. sorry, multiple:
<oberstet>
rgd a product around vmprof ("service" in above): my best idea is ^ plugin for existing big enterprise .. more classic sw licensing
<oberstet>
rgd vmprof is embedded in crossbar, and we currently have a need to fix an issue on arm64 (startup time) in crossbar itself
<oberstet>
rgd vmprof as an integral part of "something" ... visible to the users of the "something" rather than to implementors (eg us):
<oberstet>
I think python in embedded could be a super interesting case
<oberstet>
vmprof in such a context
<fijal>
ok
<fijal>
so I can help you with arm64 and startup time in crossbar itself, I think
<oberstet>
great!!
<fijal>
when do you need it for?
<fijal>
for pypy I presume?
<oberstet>
in general, do you have (coding) time to spend currently (I mean for money eg ..)
<fijal>
I will have time from 1st December. In the meantime I can squeeze in a day or two
<LarstiQ>
fwiw, I haven't really tried vmprof in our production setup, but being able to profile running containers would be quite useful
<fijal>
we never got to the point of having a meaningful aggregation service
<fijal>
oberstet: I think vmprof on aarch64 should work out of the box, it's a matter of updating a few tests and changing a few checks, I think?
<fijal>
maybe not actually, needs a page of careful code I reckon