11:02 <wolfspraul> planet was stuck (permission problem on server, my bad)

11:02 <wolfspraul> thanks to Harald for pointing it out to me, I guess he misses the planet mosts more than I do? how is that possible???

11:02 <wolfspraul> :-)

11:02 <wolfspraul> thanks Harald!

11:08 <wpwrak> "save the planet" ;)

15:05 <qi-bot> [commit] Werner Almesberger: m1/ledravaganza/ramp.pl: exponential ramp generator for ledm (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/wernermisc/94e9558

19:31 <viric> wpwrak: do you like this? http://www.openscad.org/

19:39 <Jay7> where is tuxbrain? :)

19:39 <Jay7> I see error on his site :)

19:45 <viric> mh

19:45 <viric> the bot can be asked

19:46 <viric> but I don't know of him since a long time ago

20:04 <wolfspraul> error on his site?

20:16 <Jay7> http://www.tuxbrain.com/en/content/ardunote-project-arduino-nanonote

20:16 <Jay7> user warning: Unknown column 'token' in 'field list' query: UPDATE dpr01_captcha_sessions SET token='e50a89d13561813d263afaf9907b5a94' WHERE csid=1071880 in /home1/tuxbrain/public_html/sites/all/modules/captcha/captcha.module on line 216.

20:34 <whitequark> !seen tuxbrain

20:34 <qi-bot> whitequark, I found 6 matches to your query. These are the 5 most recent ones: tuxbrain_HxxHhzo, tuxbrain, tuxbrain_zzzzzz, tuxbrain_PASS, tuxbrain_WPAN. tuxbrain_HxxHhzo (~tuxbrain@95.61.34.233) was last seen quitting #milkymist 14 weeks 2 days 1 hour 6 minutes ago (18.10. 19:27) stating "Ping timeout: 256 seconds" after spending 23 hours there.

20:34 <whitequark> personality multiplication?..

20:35 <viric> maybe we'd have to ring him

20:43 <wolfspraul> I think more or less we have to move forward without him, which is sad

20:45 <larsc> 14 weeks?

20:45 <wolfspraul> he's fine, but as much as he loved tuxbrain.com he had to take up a full-time job, and with his kid etc. it's becoming very hard right now to be active in open hardware

20:45 <wolfspraul> his spirit is alive though, one day he will be back I'm sure

20:46 <larsc> hm

20:46 <wolfspraul> I'm a little worried to send EU NanoNote customers to him nowadays, as I can also barely get email responses, but he says he is still filling orders...

20:47 <wolfspraul> larsc: you have a job now, let's see when you also had a kid ;-)

20:49 <larsc> that will hopefully still take a few years

21:16 <viric> wolfspraul: ah ok!

21:17 <viric> Impressive, that he is so busy.

21:21 <larsc> impressive?

21:27 <viric> 14 weeks without looking at irc.. I've never been so busy

21:28 <kristianpaul> you have kids?

21:29 <viric> no no :)

21:29 <viric> but I know people with kids that enter irc. Some! :)

21:34 <wolfspraul> I think I've heard once that 80% or so of FOSS developers leave the scene after they have kids

21:35 <larsc> hehe and only come back after the kids have left home

21:37 <wpwrak> viric: (openscad) nice idea but it's hard to avoid artefacts. see also this thread: http://lists.en.qi-hardware.com/pipermail/discussion/2011-July/008476.html

21:38 <viric> ah I remember your tests

21:38 <wpwrak> it seems that a lot of studies that try to gauge the overall happiness of people find that, for men, there's a negative correlation with having kids ...

21:39 <wpwrak> wolfspraul: i hope you're one of the outliers ;-)

21:39 <wolfspraul> yes I'm fine

21:39 <wolfspraul> but I'm very childish myself I think :-)

21:40 <wpwrak> hehe ;-) it probably also helps not to be in the traditional employee role. less conflict between limited control over your own life yet being responsible for another one.

21:40 <wolfspraul> so... let's play!

21:40 <wpwrak> more usb-midi fun ? ;-)

21:40 <wolfspraul> documenting keyboards and mice fun

21:41 <wolfspraul> a rather exotic game, I admit

21:41 <wpwrak> oh :) what kind of documenting are you doing ?

21:44 <wpwrak> i have a pile of mice still waiting for me to return to M1 usb testing. what i was thinking of was making a register of them, with the following information:

21:44 <wolfspraul> here http://en.qi-hardware.com/wiki/Milkymist_One_accessories#keyboard

21:44 <wolfspraul> it's not much but cleanup is tedious

21:45 <wpwrak> name, description of key characteristics, picture, lsusb -v, HID report descriptor dump, and its status with M1

21:45 <wolfspraul> I want to add a little picture for each to make it easier to get a feeling once the table gets longer

21:46 <wolfspraul> of course I don't plan to document all keyboards or mice but the idea is that we have some baseline and can document our quality efforts, for ourselves and others

21:46 <wpwrak> you may also need some of the dump information. some mice may bear the same name yet differ internally

21:46 <wolfspraul> when I'm finished with keyboard and mice I will continue with the midi controllers

21:46 <wolfspraul> sure

21:46 <wolfspraul> but it's a wiki, and I really only do what helps me right now understand and guide the quality effort

21:46 <wolfspraul> I have 5 keyboards right now, and 4 mice

21:46 <wpwrak> do you have a means to generate wiki pages from files ?

21:46 <wolfspraul> xiangfu has a few more keyboards and mice

21:47 <wolfspraul> no

21:47 <wolfspraul> I think I will leave the soc+binary on my m1 that you gave me

21:47 <wolfspraul> call it 2012-01-26 werner interim build

21:47 <wpwrak> :)

21:48 <wolfspraul> my feeling is maybe after your next round of usb fixes, most keyboard and mice will just work

21:49 <wpwrak> yeah, i hope so. we had some regressions but that should be fixable

21:51 <wpwrak> for a proper USB devices database, i think we should generate the wiki content and keep the raw data in git. cut out the manual processing.

21:52 <wpwrak> plus, that way it would also be easy to run searches, diffs, and such

21:53 <wpwrak> (searches as in "do we have another device with this of that quirky report format variation ?")

21:55 <qi-bot> [commit] Werner Almesberger: m1/BUILD-CHEAT-SHEET: use 2011/12/01 version for now (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/wernermisc/65555f7

21:55 <wolfspraul> usb devices database sounds very scary

21:56 <wolfspraul> in my opinion that could quickly become a massive distraction of our very limited resources

21:56 <wolfspraul> instead, all I will do is to have a table of known supported and known unsupported devices

21:56 <wpwrak> well, "database" = a set of files

21:56 <wolfspraul> over time collected from core users and contributors

21:56 <wpwrak> i'm not talking about SQL ;-)

21:56 <wolfspraul> and also delete from that table if we loose track of whether something works or doesn't

21:57 <wolfspraul> the idea is to give people a quick feeling and guidance as to what works and what doesn't

21:57 <wolfspraul> quality of the table goes above quantity

21:57 <wpwrak> yes, that's what the generated table should contain

21:57 <wpwrak> plus, there should be links to lsusb -v and the HID report descriptor. that way, one can see some of the technical background.

21:59 <wpwrak> with a set of files, all this is easy to manage. in wiki, it's like surgery through a rectal probe ...

22:01 <wolfspraul> I'll do this in wiki right now

22:01 <wolfspraul> it's the quickest and easiest way, and allows for temporary format diversity, later cleanup, etc.

22:01 <wolfspraul> but if you put your data into files, why not

22:02 <wpwrak> lsusb -v -d xxxx:yyyy >critter-lsusb is so much easier than wiki copy & paste :)

22:03 <wolfspraul> I'm not trying to convert you to wiki, not at all

22:03 <wpwrak> plus any confusion that may come up if someone mis-copy&pastes

22:03 <wolfspraul> please do what works best for you

22:03 <wolfspraul> collecting information on M1 accessories will be messy though, unless we do it in a very centralized way which will not happen

22:06 <wpwrak> well, that's what i was aiming for ;-)

22:08 <wpwrak> getting the report descriptor is a bit tricky, though. has several prerequisites. basically a "developers only" operation.

22:08 <wpwrak> and of course, you need linux :)

22:09 <wpwrak> well, maybe we can add some hack to m1 in the future to dump that data to a file, then do the formatting offline

22:57 <whitequark> (surgery through a rectal probe) finally I know how this is translated to English

22:57 <whitequark> !.

22:58 <wpwrak> ;-)))

22:58 <whitequark> in russian, you have two analogues

22:59 <whitequark> 1) cut one's tonsils through one's rectum

22:59 <wpwrak> now, when enjoying social talk at parties, you can finally explain to the ladies present what you do for work (-:C

22:59 <whitequark> 2) cut one's tonsils through someone other's rectum

22:59 <wpwrak> oh, didn't know #2 ;-)

23:00 <whitequark> #2 is soooo applicable to flash

23:00 <whitequark> its compiler has a hack which translates finally clauses as catch() ones (emitting invalid bytecode in the process)

23:00 <whitequark> _and_ its VM has a hack which translates these catch() clauses back to finally ones (ignoring invalid bytecode in the process)

23:02 <whitequark> I don't even have an adequate obscene comparsion for that.

23:03 <whitequark> ... have I damaged your brain? Sorry for that :D

23:06 <wpwrak> maybe compiler and VM are the work of two different groups of developers ? :)

23:09 <whitequark> well

23:10 <whitequark> the VM is called tamarin

23:10 <whitequark> and I guess that the developers share some genetic relations with the animal

23:10 <whitequark> like 100%

23:11 <whitequark> you know, "a million monkey theorem"

23:11 <whitequark> and I won't even start to tell you which kinds of relations do developers of the compiler have with the developers of VM

23:11 <whitequark> and which relations exactly I would like to impose on both groups

23:17 <wpwrak> (relations) the same two grandparents ? :)

23:18 <whitequark> you have a very innocent mind don't you? :D

23:25 <wpwrak> (-:C

23:28 <whitequark> anyway, I need some sleep

23:28 <whitequark> and I hope I'll never dream of _that_