00:14 <DocScrutinizer05> thanks

00:22 <mth> DocScrutinizer05: light in the sense of simple or light in the sense of being able to service lots of requests on modest hardware?

00:22 <DocScrutinizer05> aiui as in simple

00:22 <DocScrutinizer05> or small

00:22 <DocScrutinizer05> easy probably

00:23 <mth> a friend of mine maintains this server: http://www.xs-httpd.org/

00:23 <mth> and there is also a small http server included in python

00:23 <mth> example code using the python server: http://code.google.com/p/toys4droids/source/browse/easy_webserver.py

00:23 <DocScrutinizer05> [2012-10-13 00:22:50] <merlin1991> hm what's the quickest way to start a local http server for some time?

00:27 <wpwrak> maybe /etc/init.d/httpd start; sleep SOME_TIME; /etc/init.d/httpd stop ? :)

00:27 <wpwrak> replace "httpd" with whatever you fancy

00:37 <DocScrutinizer05> loking at this eQ3 homematic CCU station, I feel like paying RMS a beer

00:37 <DocScrutinizer05> looking*

00:39 <DocScrutinizer05> one of those rogue companies who thing printing the GPL on last 2 pages of their user manual "booklet" is all it needs to abuse OSS

00:39 <DocScrutinizer05> think* - damn typos

00:40 <roh> DocScrutinizer05: homematic has gpl stuff in it?

00:41 <DocScrutinizer05> on the CCU there's quite obviously a linux

00:42 <DocScrutinizer05> all the way from ntpd to kernel

00:42 <DocScrutinizer05> and I can't find the source anywhere

00:45 <DocScrutinizer05> ~ # uname -a

00:45 <DocScrutinizer05> Linux homematic 2.6.21.3 #6 Thu May 31 12:51:30 CEST 2012 armv4tl unknown

00:46 <DocScrutinizer05> BusyBox v1.00 (2012.05.14-12:29+0000) Built-in shell (ash)

00:47 <DocScrutinizer05> crippled to death

00:47 <DocScrutinizer05> ~ # df -h

00:47 <DocScrutinizer05> Filesystem Size Used Available Use% Mounted on

00:47 <DocScrutinizer05> /dev/mtdblock2 32.0M 22.5M 9.5M 70% /

00:48 <DocScrutinizer05> /dev/mtdblock3 32.0M 2.4M 29.6M 7% /usr/local

00:48 <DocScrutinizer05> tempfs 32.0M 576.0k 31.4M 2% /var

00:57 <DocScrutinizer05> http://pastebin.com/yCUELZkV

01:00 <DocScrutinizer05> roh: I know I'll get banned now for owning such a crappy device ;-P

01:02 <DocScrutinizer05> esp for that hefty pricetag

01:04 <mth> ancient kernel as well

01:05 <DocScrutinizer05> I even heard their glorified "bidCos[TM!1!!]" is not safe against replay attacks - something particularly nasty for a bidir protocol that could easily run proper challenge-response auth

01:05 <roh> DocScrutinizer05: maybe send in a report to gpl-v ;)

01:05 <roh> when you know a ticket# holler...

01:21 <DocScrutinizer05> roh: well, I guess I first should write a "Einschreiben mit Rueckschein" to them, asking for source

03:01 <whitequark> DocScrutinizer05: http://irclog.whitequark.org is updated instantly :)

04:12 <kyak> DocScrutinizer06: could you make it so IP addresses are not logged?

04:14 <kyak> DocScrutinizer06: generally, logging an irc channel and making it public without letting anyone know is not ethical (as in irc ethics)

04:14 <kyak> i know it's logged by qi-hw and whitequark, and i know that these logs don't contain personal information

07:26 <qi-bot> [commit] kyak: uboot-xburst: fix dl url, add md5sum (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-xburst/490004f

11:09 <DocScrutinizer06> kyak: while I partially understand your concerns, I can't change anything with infobot's logging. Just like I can't change how qibot logs. Anyway rhe fact that this channel is logged actually _is_ announced in topic, I don't think we could or need to list every log or guarantee that certain info is _not_ logged. There are other ways on (freenode) IRC to take care about your privacy if you're concerned

12:01 <wpwrak> it's an open channel and storage is cheap. i don't think there's any reason to assume it's not logged by NSA, KGB, and so on, quite independently from what qi-bot and friends do.

12:13 <DocScrutinizer06> wpwrak: kyak is right about general freenode policy somewhat dicourrages chan logging, and requires announcing any logging. I'm not entirely in line with this sentiment, but will happily follow requirement for log-warning in chan topic. But that's it

12:16 <DocScrutinizer06> since there are a lot of self-nominated 'services' that sneak in aribrary IRC channels with their bots, to log them publicly, and they do so without any announcement, I think the warning/info about QiBot logs in topic, plus naming infobot like that, plus making infobot standing out in chanuser list by giving it +v, plus ~logs, is just good enough for everybody. after all you're right that this is a public channel

12:18 <DocScrutinizer06> obviously kyak knows how to hide his IP and take care about his privacy, as everybody can tell from /whois kyak. Those IRC users who care less about those things maybe don't need somebody to fight for their rights

12:25 <DocScrutinizer05> wpwrak: aiui those concerned about logging are so because of "google'ability" of what's been said and "done" in IRC channels. I have a hard time adopting this rationale.

13:02 <wpwrak> in the end, it all gets lost in the noise

13:03 <wpwrak> it's only a problem when there are very few people who get exposed that way. once a google search will find a bunch of atrocities for just anyone, it gets irrelevant

13:11 <valhalla> otoh being able to google the actual ip history of somebody may be problematic (but then, if somebody is following you he might as well whois you)

13:31 <wpwrak> well, you may want to use an anonymizer when discussing the plans for overthrowing the government with your fellow conspirators. especially when approaching the implementation phase :)

13:32 <wpwrak> that's simpler than trying to stay 100% undercover. and also less suspicious :)

13:32 <wpwrak> just make sure the anonymizer is immune to traffic analysis

13:35 <kyak> i think it was discussed already in this channel

13:35 <kyak> and wolfgang even did some extra job to remove personal information from existing logs

13:36 <kyak> DocScrutinizer05: you are saying you have no control over logs, but it's your bot and your responsibility

13:36 <DocScrutinizer05> kyak: that's outright incorrect

13:36 <DocScrutinizer05> it's neither my bot nor do I have any control whatsoever over logs it creates

13:36 <kyak> you said "I can't change anything with infobot's logging."

13:37 <kyak> whos bot is that?

13:37 <DocScrutinizer05> [2012-10-13 15:37:15] [Whois] infobot ist ~infobot@rikers.org (TimRiker's infobot)

13:37 <kyak> ok, then i don't know what is the reason for this bot to be here

13:38 <DocScrutinizer05> which is more in line with freenode's requirements about bots than what qi-bot announces

13:39 <ChanServ> kyak set flags +b on apt.

13:39 <DocScrutinizer05> kyak: the reason is that some chan users thought it's a good idea to have it here, mainly for its factoid database, and assumed chan owner appreciated it

13:39 <DocScrutinizer05> dafaq!!!

13:39 <kyak> i think the problem is solved now, thank you

13:39 <DocScrutinizer05> kyak: that's extremely nasty

13:40 <kyak> no need to discuss what's already been discussed and agreed

13:41 <kyak> no, i'm actually pretty calm. Just taking care about our users

13:42 <wpwrak> i set infobot to ignore a long time ago and don't worry much about the logs. problem solves ;-)

13:42 <DocScrutinizer05> banning a bot is not the suggested way to handle that stuff

13:43 <DocScrutinizer05> I'm in control over join lists for bot, and it's absolutely incorrect to ban a bot without discussing it with bot owner and/or the chan owner which is wolfspraul in my book

13:43 <kyak> this is uncontrolled bot, it should not be here. I can't ask his owner to stop logging/or not to log IP's

13:43 <DocScrutinizer05> bullshit

13:43 <DocScrutinizer05> you're spreading incorrect assumptions here

13:44 <DocScrutinizer05> you're about to go mad with cahnop tduties

13:46 <kyak> wpwrak: for FBI/KGB.. they sure don't make their logs public

13:46 <kyak> i log this channel, too (and probably with IPs). But don't make them searchable on google

13:47 <DocScrutinizer05> so, where is the rule that suggests logging isn't supposed to log parts of the public info in a chan?

13:47 <DocScrutinizer05> you made that up

13:47 <kyak> it was agreed by users of this channel

13:47 <kyak> and actions were taken not to log sensitive information

13:48 <DocScrutinizer05> point me to the log saying so, please!

13:48 <wpwrak> kyak: correction: they make those parts public that look good in show trials

13:48 <DocScrutinizer05> timestamp just fine, since I also have private logs if the chan

13:48 <wpwrak> kyak: their PR departements insist on that :)

13:49 <wpwrak> (logs)

13:49 <DocScrutinizer05> btw wtf is the sensitivity of an IP?

13:49 <DocScrutinizer05> when it's published every day in the chan anyway

13:50 <DocScrutinizer05> if it changes over time, then the old info is useless and obsolete anyway and googling for it is nonsense. If it's a static IP, then nobody needs to google for it since everybody can get the info 'live' from IRC

13:50 <wpwrak> if you choose a different persona on each site/environment/community you use, and your IP is relatively constant, then the IP could be used to reconstruct a larger part of your real identity

13:51 <wpwrak> also, if someone catches you doing something (e.g., file sharing) and all they have is your IP, then it may help them to identify you

13:51 <DocScrutinizer05> it's not IRC's nor logging bots' responsibility to take care about *that* niche case

13:51 <kyak> DocScrutinizer05: http://en.qi-hardware.com/irclogs/qi-hardware_2010-08-11.log.html#t11:10

13:52 <DocScrutinizer05> if somebody does that, he's the only one responsible to hide his IP

13:53 <kyak> wolfspraul: could you please step in?

13:53 <wpwrak> DocScrutinizer05: well, it's called "defense in depth". you try to make things hard for an attacker at every point of the way. this won't protect you against a sufficient determined and resourceful foe but it can at least make you a very unattractive target

13:53 <DocScrutinizer05> kyak: i'll talk to Tim about disabling logging for #qi-hardware

13:54 <kyak> DocScrutinizer05: thanks

13:54 <DocScrutinizer05> np

13:55 <ChanServ> kyak set flags -Vbv on apt.

13:56 <ChanServ> kyak set flags +Vv on apt.

16:43 <whitequark> kyak: sorry, but you are insane.

16:43 <whitequark> if you think that IP logging is an issue with privacy, I would take care to add another bot, which would explicitly disclose IPs.

16:44 <whitequark> I've removed hostnames from my logs simply because they don't have any reason to stay there and distract attention from actual information.

16:45 <whitequark> note that in the case that I would actually write that another bot, no countermeasures except for closing channel for the general public, could impose any restrictions on it. this is the whole principle of public channels.

16:45 <whitequark> talking about this even further, the fact is that _freenode_ discloses IPs. There are plenty of irc servers around which don't.

16:48 <viric> but those who want to hide it at freenode, can ask for hiding

16:48 <whitequark> it's basically the same with saying things under your nickname

16:49 <whitequark> it's your name and your words. it is actually very good that they are connected. creates responsibility.

16:49 <whitequark> if you don't want your nickname to be associated with some words, don't use it

16:49 <whitequark> if you don't want your IP... hide it, it's never been easier.

16:50 <whitequark> viric: yeah, this is why I see nothing wrong with freenode.

16:51 <whitequark> you could also set up rDNS for your IP, and then set up forward DNS for that record which won't match reverse one. just off my mind.

16:51 <viric> if you don't mind about publishing the ip, it's even of help

16:52 <viric> for p2p things maybe

16:52 <viric> dcc, ctcp, ...

16:52 <viric> whatever that is called

16:56 <whitequark> it won't work in case of NAT anyway

16:56 <viric> well

16:56 <viric> nat can be clever

16:56 <viric> not for irc-on-ssl :)

16:56 <viric> though.

16:56 <whitequark> it's generally stupid :) and I don't know anyone using those features anyway

16:58 <viric> because file transfer between people has always been a nightmare