<wpwrak>
hmm, trying the latest net-next (after not touching the ben kernel for a few months). the kernel loses usb once again :-( doesn't even seem to try to initialize it
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<larsc>
works fine on 3.10 for me
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<whitequark>
hahaha, i just found an android application which is basically delphi for touchscreen devices
<whitequark>
it's sad and miserable. people using it clearly want shell scripting but they don't know it
* whitequark
is using this to autodisable GSM in presence of WiFi: at my place there's almost zero cellular coverage so that eats battery pretty fast
<whitequark>
and I use SIP anyway.
<biot>
it's the old "in the future, we'll all be programming by dragging graphic blocks around" gag
<biot>
been hearing that one since the '80s
<whitequark>
though I will _sometimes_ rewrite this in Java, because the thing's all strange proprietary stuff installed on my system partition. don't like that, but in short term it works
<whitequark>
biot: which alternatives do you have for touch devices?
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<whitequark>
it's horrible, but it does the job, and I don't really see a way to do it better
<viric>
I always say that technology improvements go in the direction of providing the kind of devices only disabled people had, to a broader audience.
<whitequark>
viric: oh. I will quote you on that, be sure.
<viric>
:)
<viric>
a normal person now has the tech that only disabled people had 10 years ago
<viric>
:)
<whitequark>
that's... so deliciously double-edged
<viric>
;) yes
<wpwrak>
(alternatives) get a keyboard ? :)
<viric>
there is a very good spanish film from the 50s, on the topic of disabled people, and devices that assist them
<viric>
I was shocked by seeing a person without arms drive a motorbike
<whitequark>
wpwrak: annnd what do I do with it?
<viric>
it's a very short scene; let's see if someone put that on youtube
<whitequark>
interestingly, Android supports keyboard surprisingly well. for example, it handles F-keys, Esc, and Tab automatically works in every single UI form or widget in it
<whitequark>
I think Android initially was developed for devices with keyboards, Blackberry-like, but it's nice to see this wasn't lost.
<whitequark>
still, almost none apps are suited for users with keyboards.
<whitequark>
and if I have to write stuff myself, I can as well get my Eclipse on my notebook and just implement what could be three lines of a shell script in several pages of Java boilerplate
<whitequark>
that would surely be faster and easier than doing essentially the same, but on the phone itself.
<viric>
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vw-CraEap-0 it's this film; about an elder, whose friends all have some kind of motorbikes because they can't walk anymore. He can walk, hasn't such a vehicle, and feels out of the friend gang. :)
<wpwrak>
whitequark: then you're all set for proper development, and can use a language that's designed to get things done :)
<whitequark>
wpwrak: like what? :D
<whitequark>
I mean, it's hard to believe that you have just called Java a "language designed to get things done"
<whitequark>
more like "designed to wear out your keyboard", amirite? :D
<wpwrak>
whitequark: you know the answer is C :)
<whitequark>
ha
<whitequark>
I guess I would need to toss out Android then, as it only provides Java APIs for the stuff I want
<wpwrak>
can't they have wrappers and such ?
<whitequark>
then I would need to write like two times the boilerplate just to expose the interfaces to C, *and* the C code
<wpwrak>
write the wrapper once, use it forever
* whitequark
nods
<whitequark>
that may actually be a good idea. not in order to use C, of course, but in order to enable things which can use the C ABI
<whitequark>
i.e. just about everything.
<whitequark>
an Android port of Common Lisp recently made news. I've looked into the code. it's hilarious.
<wpwrak>
well, common lisp is a bit of a practical joke :)
<whitequark>
instead of using the incredibly overpowered GPU on board, they let you either: render *all* graphics with a rasterizer written in CL, or just implement GUI in Java and business logic in CL
<wpwrak>
don't get me wrong. i love the language. but it's not the kind of thing i'd burden myself with when straying outside the ivory tower
<whitequark>
hmpf
<whitequark>
the technical aspects of that CL application *itself* (apart from android bridge) are satisfying
<whitequark>
fast enough, etc, etc
<whitequark>
but social, I agree with you
* whitequark
glares at the OCaml source code of his compiler
<whitequark>
from what I understand, there's a significant cost of going from Javaland to Cland on Android.
<whitequark>
I've looked into it myself a while ago
<whitequark>
it doesn't seem to make that much sense unless you're just tossing an OpenGL context to C and drawing some kind of game-like stuff in it
<whitequark>
it has rudimentary built-in capabilities for handling input events and that's it. everything else you have to wrap yourself, and it's not easy nor cheap
<whitequark>
so, unless your language can compile to Java bytecode, you're having a hard time.
<whitequark>
but! there's a lot of languages which compile to Java. Scala (the C++ of FP!), Clojure, OCaml, just from the top of my mind, work on it already
<whitequark>
hm.
<whitequark>
I may as well look into running ocamljava on android. That at least sounds like fun, unlike writing JAva
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<wpwrak>
i just wish those nand file systems didn't have that self-destruct-on-mount-failure feature :-(
<whitequark>
did you just kill something?
<wpwrak>
(tried to run a kernel on the ben that didn't have the nand layout change -> rootfs gone)
<whitequark>
I'm sure you have an initrd with a shell handy :)
<wpwrak>
naw, it's usbboot time ..
<whitequark>
yup, usbboot to a kernel with a shell, restore stuff
<whitequark>
that's how I did it on xz0032
<wpwrak>
at least it's an idbg-equipped ben. no fumbling with the USB_BOOT contacts
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<wpwrak>
how do i restore a ubifs that's so badly damaged that it doesn't even mount ? and even if it's possible, do i really want to waste time on that ? :)
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<whitequark>
by restore I meant wipe and reimage :)
<pcercuei>
wpwrak: mkfs
<pcercuei>
heh
<wpwrak>
yeah, that's what i'm doing. reflash_ben.sh :)
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<whitequark>
what the hell, now Ubuntu supporters spam freenode with requests for donations
<lekernel>
I'm a bit skeptical of those claims that such projects "divert resources" from more interesting OSHW projects
<lekernel>
RPI = > 1 million units sold, and the software is not impressive
<lekernel>
the resources such projects divert are probably not worth much anyway
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<lekernel>
and I would not call this ubuntu gadget uninteresting. I'm not excited about the hardware of course, but if someone could make an embedded free software GUI with a great design, I'd call it progress.
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<paul_boddie>
whitequark: I guess that's the "Ubuntu Edge Referral Contest" in action.
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<whitequark>
lekernel: they already made it
<whitequark>
it's essentially regular desktop/netbook ubuntu running in an android chroot.