<jsgrant>
Would implementing something like https://github.com/gregcman/sucle , a crafting voxel engine -- be feasible in Racket? I know the performance of SBCL is roughly around Java and it looks like from the few benchmarks I've seen Racket is somewhere between 2-8 times slower than SBCL.
<jsgrant>
I get that most of the work is also done by the graphics-card, but still know that a lot of issues with Java minecraft for example is the huge amount of garbage created / needs to be cleared regularly
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<aeth>
Java Minecraft is/was poorly architectured and it's a miracle that it worked as well as it does for what it does.
<aeth>
It's not a good example of what Java can do, and that was a decade ago, too.
<jsgrant>
I'm not even saying it as an indictment of Java, but more-so I'm skeptical of the level of performance you can get in a game with that many objects that need to be swept -- or at least as I understand it.
<jsgrant>
Like using GC generally, compared to manual-memory management
<aeth>
Too much garbage in itself is bad architecture for a game loop
<aeth>
Java is a *really* bad example, though, because it has real time garbage collectors, too
<aeth>
Anyway, "you must use C++ to write a game" is a myth. You must reach at least 60 FPS to write a PC game. That's actually ridiculously easy to do.
<jsgrant>
I think that is fair, and not even 'too too' relevant nowadays with ultra-lowlatency garbage-collectors around the corner -- but I more-so singuled out Java as 'fast enough' though still not ideal, which in-theory is probably where I view SBCL to be in this space. My question / concern is would it be 'fast enough' or probably more-importantly 'good enough' at clearing garbage to do similar in Racket
<aeth>
I don't think that's the correct way of framing it. With a game you have a render FPS and a logic FPS. your logic FPS should be independent of the render FPS (which should reach at least 60). 100's a good arbitrary number imo.
<aeth>
So the real question is how much can you get done in 0.01 ms
<aeth>
or, sorry, 0.01 s / 10 ms
<aeth>
I guess including the worst case GC
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* jsgrant
looks at the clock (4am) but wants to conitnue the convo still ... lol ; I mean I get ya, and I've heard about 'frame budgets' before. I'm actually pretty interested in this space, and a few months to a year in dipping into Racket I do want to mess around a bit with opengl and the like -- but am afraid (probably overly) I'm quickly going to hit a wall that'snot just more poor archeticture /
* jsgrant
design descions
<aeth>
I'm not sure about the quality of the bindings in Racket. The wrong bindings can lead to a very complex translation layer that destroys performance.
<jsgrant>
From what I can tell, they have barely been touched for a few years ... but look, at least api / ergonomics wise, very close to upstream
<jsgrant>
Okay, going to have to go afk and actually sleep. Need to wake up by at latest noon and go to work later today still -- wish I would've thought of this topic a few hours ago ... lol
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<setthemfree[m]>
Dear everyone, I'm wondering if there is mose kind of string formatting with placeholders in Racket, a la Python's "{named} value".format(named=...)?
<setthemfree[m]>
s/mose/some
<bremner>
setthemfree[m]: yep. look for "format" or "printf"
<bremner>
rudybot: doc printf
<bremner>
lazy bot.
<rudybot>
bremner: error: with-limit: out of time
<setthemfree[m]>
bremner: looking at it, but I don't see named placeholders specifically, only positional, i.e., sequential
<bremner>
ah, right. Name placeholders I'm not sure about in the stdlib. I think there are some templating packages around
<jcowan>
Alternatively, forget templating and use format combinators
<setthemfree[m]>
I guess I'm too predisposed with Python's way, maybe I should be doing that with quoted lists or something
<setthemfree[m]>
jcowan: sorry for my ignorance, what rae format combinators?
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<setthemfree[m]>
nice
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<jcowan>
I was just looking at the racket/control library. The intention seems to be to allow any existing code, no matter whose conventions it uses for delimited control, to be adaptable. But which ones are recommended for new development?
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<MustardCheese>
Quick question - it seems as though it's a standard to write out the word 'lambda' rather than using the 'λ' symbol. I say this because the full word is used in the documentation, in the racket source code and in many third party examples found online. Why is this?
<bremner>
MustardCheese: I use λ a fair amount in my own code. it does occasionaly cause problems with non-utf8 aware tools, such as (shamefully) racket's own web server
<bremner>
I think it's mainly a habit going back to the bad old days of writing LISP in ASCII
<MustardCheese>
Hahaha should perhaps look into that. On that note, whenever I use the racket gist posting tool, I always need to disable syntax highlighting as it will otherwise try and fail to compile my code before throwing servlet errors at me
<MustardCheese>
Is there a backend somewhere that I could contribute to/report bugs to?
<aeth>
MustardCheese: Emacs can render lambda as λ. You have to be careful about doing things like this because it can break indentation, but in practice, it won't break indentation because you're probably doing (λ (variables)\n or (λ (variables) ...)\n and the only time it would break is when you're doing (λ (variable-1\n in which case you probably should be using a named procedure
<aeth>
This is entirely local to your side, and you get it by typing "lambda", so it is a pretty good way to handle it
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<MustardCheese>
Very interesting. Thank you both
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